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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 196974" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Oh boy, does this sound familiar!</p><p></p><p>You've had some great advice in there.</p><p></p><p>First - get your hands on "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene, as Nvts suggested. If you look over on Early Childhood, you will find some good discussion of tis book and why/how it works. You don't need a diagnosis for it to work, you just need to change your mindset and approach because your method of parenting, which is probably exactly correct and how you were taught to parent, is just WRONG sometimes, for some kids.</p><p>This is NOT your fault though. You are a good parent. Chances are, it's BECAUSE you're such a good parent, that he is so oppositional with you. And I say this as someone who was just like you in parenting - doing everything as I had been taught, and as my experience taught me was correct, was right, was classic "Dr Spock" and had worked so well not only with easy child, but also with all my sisters kids I helped raise. I came to motherhood EXPERIENCED. I had been taught by the best - my mother. She could get the toughest kids to do anything. Or so it seemed to me.</p><p></p><p>Your husband gets better results - this doesn't mean he's got a better technique. It's probably because you're more hands-on with your son than your husband is. You son feels more secure with you, he knows you love him no matter what. And this is good, don't get me wrong.</p><p></p><p>The Ross Greene way of thinking IS different, but oh, how it works! Using it is NOT an admission of defeat - rather, it is a good parent determined to cover all bases. The Dutch boy plugging all leaks in the dyke. You don't always have to use a finger to plug the leak - sometimes you can look around and find anything useful, at hand.</p><p></p><p>This method is also easier. I admit when I first read about it I mentally groaned, thinking I would be hard-put to think clearly about different methods. Probably lots of charts, meetings, stars and stickers, constant monitoring, regular updates needed, professional supervision. Nope. Not needed.</p><p></p><p>Punishment - if it doesn't work, don't do it. All that happens is you lose authority. Better to not go there, than to go there and fail.</p><p></p><p>The kids that do best with this tend to be the smart ones, the bright kids with a very keen sense of injustice. It needs a different mind-set, you need to be able to get into his head and think the way he thinks. Think about what triggers his bad behaviour or any outbursts. Think about what calms him down. Then make your own list - what do you give highest priority to?</p><p></p><p>I won't go into too much detail here, but most of us would be capable of it - this has helped so many people here.</p><p></p><p>You need to realise - sometimes no matter how bright a kid can seem, they can have gaps in their ability. Socially they can lag behind. These kids are GREAT at learning, but they are NOT mini-me characters. Sometimes their thought processes are so alien, you wonder if you will ever have common ground. But at other times they are thinking so clearly, you could swear you can hear it.</p><p></p><p>Our ADHD/Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids learn by observing how others behave. They often do not discriminate between adults or children - to them, everyone is equal. This is technically a social ideal, but if you think about if, very few us us really want a child to talk to us in the same way we often talk to children. If you can, listen to a mother talking to her child and try to imagine yourself as the child. How would you feel, as an adult, being talked to like that? Some parents are worse - they do this almost as a way to validate their role as parent. "I told you not to climb on that railing! Now look at you, your trousers are all dusty! What will people think when they see you? They will think you're a disobedient little boy who doesn't listen to his mummy, that's what!" when really, all that is needed (if that) is a five second dust-down and the child's trousers are clean again. or clean enough. </p><p>IS it any wonder that a child spoken to in that way will begin to talk to his mother like this: "How many times do I have to tell you, I don't like orange juice! I distinctly asked you for milk, and what did you do? You poured juice. I'm not drinking that! Why do you never listen to me?"</p><p></p><p>Can you hear the parent's initial 'coaching' in that?</p><p></p><p>This doesn't happen with all kids. It also isn't something you could INDUCE in all kids. But with SOME kids, like my difficult child 3 for instance (and before him, with easy child 2/difficult child 2 - I didn't know WHAT I had given birth to!) it's almost unavoidable unless you carefully avoid setting the pattern in the first place. And if the pattern is already there - it is surprisingly easy to say, "That was then. This is now. From here on, I will show respect to my children in order tat they may learn to show the same respect to me."</p><p></p><p>it is amazing, but it works, especially the more consistent you can be.</p><p></p><p>Read the book. Read the link - it all helps. Get your husband to read it too if you can, or you use your understanding of it to explain it to him (I did - it helped me make sure I 'got' it).</p><p></p><p>And remember - you have done nothing wrong. part of your trouble could just be that you have an exceptionally bright child. That alone can do this. But the child may have some other issue magnifying this - ADHD is one possibility. I agree that Asperger's probably needs to be checked out.</p><p></p><p>People may suggest ODD to you - they may be right. But I HATE the label because "Oppositional Defiant Disorder" implies to me that the child is being deliberately difficult purely for the entertainment value. I don't believe this is what happens, not in most cases. I think instead what you see is the automatic push-back that has been programmed into them out of pure frustration in them at a world (and people) who don't understand how difficult some things are for him.</p><p></p><p>He needs to learn that it needn't be that frustrating, not if he has parents who are there to help him over the hurdles instead of putting them up for him to trip over. Again, it's easy to make the change and he should learn this quickly.</p><p></p><p>I found difficult child 3's behaviour began to improve, even before I'd (consciously) implemented the strategies in the book. Changing my mindset to him was the beginning (and I hadn't thought my mindset was a problem at all) and I think this happened automatically. The next step was to focus my aims and be specific, at least in my own mind. I had to let go and stop trying to fix everything all at once. I also had to show him by my example, how I wanted him to behave.</p><p></p><p>It was amazing how fast it began to work. Because there is an underlying disorder, things aren't all fixed completely. We always have problems to deal with. But our problems are kept much more manageable now, because difficult child 3 & the rest of us have the same aims in mind.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 has grown up knowing that he has autism, but also knowing that it is an important part of his character - it is who he is. For him, it just means acknowledgement that his brain learns a different way. He also considers his IQ to be connected to the diagnosis. He met the exceptionally bright daughter of his therapist and asked the therapist, "Is your daughter autistic too? Because she is very, very smart - almost as smart as I am. So I figured, she must be."</p><p>The therapist was a little taken aback at first, then flattered. And difficult child 3 now understands that people can be smart, without being autistic.</p><p></p><p>There can be many other reasons for explosive behaviour. Similar techniques work on them all. This method customises easily.</p><p></p><p>Welcome to the site. Help is here. Hopefully it's cheaper and easier than boot camp or military academy.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 196974, member: 1991"] Oh boy, does this sound familiar! You've had some great advice in there. First - get your hands on "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene, as Nvts suggested. If you look over on Early Childhood, you will find some good discussion of tis book and why/how it works. You don't need a diagnosis for it to work, you just need to change your mindset and approach because your method of parenting, which is probably exactly correct and how you were taught to parent, is just WRONG sometimes, for some kids. This is NOT your fault though. You are a good parent. Chances are, it's BECAUSE you're such a good parent, that he is so oppositional with you. And I say this as someone who was just like you in parenting - doing everything as I had been taught, and as my experience taught me was correct, was right, was classic "Dr Spock" and had worked so well not only with easy child, but also with all my sisters kids I helped raise. I came to motherhood EXPERIENCED. I had been taught by the best - my mother. She could get the toughest kids to do anything. Or so it seemed to me. Your husband gets better results - this doesn't mean he's got a better technique. It's probably because you're more hands-on with your son than your husband is. You son feels more secure with you, he knows you love him no matter what. And this is good, don't get me wrong. The Ross Greene way of thinking IS different, but oh, how it works! Using it is NOT an admission of defeat - rather, it is a good parent determined to cover all bases. The Dutch boy plugging all leaks in the dyke. You don't always have to use a finger to plug the leak - sometimes you can look around and find anything useful, at hand. This method is also easier. I admit when I first read about it I mentally groaned, thinking I would be hard-put to think clearly about different methods. Probably lots of charts, meetings, stars and stickers, constant monitoring, regular updates needed, professional supervision. Nope. Not needed. Punishment - if it doesn't work, don't do it. All that happens is you lose authority. Better to not go there, than to go there and fail. The kids that do best with this tend to be the smart ones, the bright kids with a very keen sense of injustice. It needs a different mind-set, you need to be able to get into his head and think the way he thinks. Think about what triggers his bad behaviour or any outbursts. Think about what calms him down. Then make your own list - what do you give highest priority to? I won't go into too much detail here, but most of us would be capable of it - this has helped so many people here. You need to realise - sometimes no matter how bright a kid can seem, they can have gaps in their ability. Socially they can lag behind. These kids are GREAT at learning, but they are NOT mini-me characters. Sometimes their thought processes are so alien, you wonder if you will ever have common ground. But at other times they are thinking so clearly, you could swear you can hear it. Our ADHD/Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids learn by observing how others behave. They often do not discriminate between adults or children - to them, everyone is equal. This is technically a social ideal, but if you think about if, very few us us really want a child to talk to us in the same way we often talk to children. If you can, listen to a mother talking to her child and try to imagine yourself as the child. How would you feel, as an adult, being talked to like that? Some parents are worse - they do this almost as a way to validate their role as parent. "I told you not to climb on that railing! Now look at you, your trousers are all dusty! What will people think when they see you? They will think you're a disobedient little boy who doesn't listen to his mummy, that's what!" when really, all that is needed (if that) is a five second dust-down and the child's trousers are clean again. or clean enough. IS it any wonder that a child spoken to in that way will begin to talk to his mother like this: "How many times do I have to tell you, I don't like orange juice! I distinctly asked you for milk, and what did you do? You poured juice. I'm not drinking that! Why do you never listen to me?" Can you hear the parent's initial 'coaching' in that? This doesn't happen with all kids. It also isn't something you could INDUCE in all kids. But with SOME kids, like my difficult child 3 for instance (and before him, with easy child 2/difficult child 2 - I didn't know WHAT I had given birth to!) it's almost unavoidable unless you carefully avoid setting the pattern in the first place. And if the pattern is already there - it is surprisingly easy to say, "That was then. This is now. From here on, I will show respect to my children in order tat they may learn to show the same respect to me." it is amazing, but it works, especially the more consistent you can be. Read the book. Read the link - it all helps. Get your husband to read it too if you can, or you use your understanding of it to explain it to him (I did - it helped me make sure I 'got' it). And remember - you have done nothing wrong. part of your trouble could just be that you have an exceptionally bright child. That alone can do this. But the child may have some other issue magnifying this - ADHD is one possibility. I agree that Asperger's probably needs to be checked out. People may suggest ODD to you - they may be right. But I HATE the label because "Oppositional Defiant Disorder" implies to me that the child is being deliberately difficult purely for the entertainment value. I don't believe this is what happens, not in most cases. I think instead what you see is the automatic push-back that has been programmed into them out of pure frustration in them at a world (and people) who don't understand how difficult some things are for him. He needs to learn that it needn't be that frustrating, not if he has parents who are there to help him over the hurdles instead of putting them up for him to trip over. Again, it's easy to make the change and he should learn this quickly. I found difficult child 3's behaviour began to improve, even before I'd (consciously) implemented the strategies in the book. Changing my mindset to him was the beginning (and I hadn't thought my mindset was a problem at all) and I think this happened automatically. The next step was to focus my aims and be specific, at least in my own mind. I had to let go and stop trying to fix everything all at once. I also had to show him by my example, how I wanted him to behave. It was amazing how fast it began to work. Because there is an underlying disorder, things aren't all fixed completely. We always have problems to deal with. But our problems are kept much more manageable now, because difficult child 3 & the rest of us have the same aims in mind. difficult child 3 has grown up knowing that he has autism, but also knowing that it is an important part of his character - it is who he is. For him, it just means acknowledgement that his brain learns a different way. He also considers his IQ to be connected to the diagnosis. He met the exceptionally bright daughter of his therapist and asked the therapist, "Is your daughter autistic too? Because she is very, very smart - almost as smart as I am. So I figured, she must be." The therapist was a little taken aback at first, then flattered. And difficult child 3 now understands that people can be smart, without being autistic. There can be many other reasons for explosive behaviour. Similar techniques work on them all. This method customises easily. Welcome to the site. Help is here. Hopefully it's cheaper and easier than boot camp or military academy. Marg [/QUOTE]
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