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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 96481" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Kathy, you said earlier, "I am just shaking my head at the thought of nearly 40 students in a classroom. I didn't think that they had classes that large anywhere anymore."</p><p></p><p>I agree - 40 is way too many. Unfortunately we often DO have classes that big in Aussie schools. And even if you have Special Needs kids, you won't get ANY help unless there is a funding application, and without the school's encouragement a lot of parents won't apply/don't know they can/are afraid that their child will be 'singled out'/want to wait and see. And if the school DOES encourage - they can get their knuckles rapped for pushing costs up at District level. </p><p></p><p>You can get aides for only some Special Needs, only if you can demonstrate specific problems (most of which have been designed for kids with physical disabilities). So a teacher can have a large class with several problem kids, no help and a lot of frustration.</p><p></p><p>At the principal level - he has the nasty job of working out how many classes he can have, based purely on numbers of children. I freely admit here I'm pulling numbers out of my head, I don't know exactly what the specific numbers are, but it goes something like this. If there are say, 200 kids slated for enrolment the following year (taking into account those graduating out, those known to be leaving the area, those known to be coming into Kindergarten and any small number from outside known to be transferring in) then he calculates according to, say, a minimum of 30 kids per class. That's six classes, spread over the whole school. Ten more enrolments and he can have seven. Seven classes means seven classrooms and seven teaching staff.</p><p></p><p>If he has 212 kids this year, then it's looking like he has to sack a teacher, and the Dept will take away (physically - I kid you not) one of his classrooms. They won't take old, built-in rooms but they will cut back on other services.</p><p></p><p>So the principal campaigns to get extra kids into the school/keep kids from leaving if he can.</p><p></p><p>Now he has to work out WHAT classes he can have. He probably cannot have K, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 because the numbers rarely work out that way.</p><p></p><p>He looks at his notes - 200 kids divided by 6 = 33, with 2 over. He can go up to 44 in each class but would rather not. There are 45 kids coming into Kindergarten. That means one straight K, and a composite K/1. Who can he put into K/1? He doesn't know these kids except maybe from a report from the pre-school teacher. So he bases his decisions on age. Who of this year's K will be in the K/1? He has room for 21 year 1 kids. But the number of Year 1s anticipated is 30. This means 9 kids left over. So there will have to be a 1/2 composite... and so on. I've seen school years when they had 6 classes including 1 straight K, all the others composite.</p><p></p><p>This means a teacher can have 40 kids, across two grades, often spanning the full ability range of two grades, if you base it purely on age as the local school has done, including probably several kids who need aides but do not have them.</p><p></p><p>I am very critical of a lot of things with our local school, not the least of which is the extreme apathy and inability to accept/effect change where it's needed; but I do feel a lot of this is down to them feeling ground down by the system to the point where they have simply had to stop caring, or burn out. Our local school has a lot of staff controlling the attitudes there, who are frankly just marking time until retirement.</p><p></p><p>easy child 2/difficult child 2 wants to be a teacher and is near the end of her first year of training. I think she will find it very hard, I hope she also doesn't get ground down by the system. It's nasty. I know our local school is a bad example, we have a lot of good schools, but teachergirl, my heart goes out to you for the effort you're putting in. At least you're giving things a try.</p><p></p><p>And Kathy, you need phones in your rooms. A buzzer simply isn't enough, it slows you down too much. A phone speeds things up, even if all that needs to be communicated is "Would Hettie James please come to the office?"</p><p>A phone also communicates, "Would someone at the office please rush down with Janette Watson's epipen? She's just been stung by a bee." I hope you can get what you need before real problems result from this lack. This IS the 21st Century, the telecommunications age...</p><p></p><p>I applaud a lot of what I see in US schools, although sometimes I hear horror stories which sound too familiar. I've met good teachers, I've seen good schools, I know it can be done even in a system like ours. And that is what makes me angry - when problems continue even though they don't have to.</p><p></p><p>Teachergirl, I fear the others are correct and you are in for a difficult year. We are here to help as much as we can along the way.</p><p></p><p>Again, welcome aboard.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 96481, member: 1991"] Kathy, you said earlier, "I am just shaking my head at the thought of nearly 40 students in a classroom. I didn't think that they had classes that large anywhere anymore." I agree - 40 is way too many. Unfortunately we often DO have classes that big in Aussie schools. And even if you have Special Needs kids, you won't get ANY help unless there is a funding application, and without the school's encouragement a lot of parents won't apply/don't know they can/are afraid that their child will be 'singled out'/want to wait and see. And if the school DOES encourage - they can get their knuckles rapped for pushing costs up at District level. You can get aides for only some Special Needs, only if you can demonstrate specific problems (most of which have been designed for kids with physical disabilities). So a teacher can have a large class with several problem kids, no help and a lot of frustration. At the principal level - he has the nasty job of working out how many classes he can have, based purely on numbers of children. I freely admit here I'm pulling numbers out of my head, I don't know exactly what the specific numbers are, but it goes something like this. If there are say, 200 kids slated for enrolment the following year (taking into account those graduating out, those known to be leaving the area, those known to be coming into Kindergarten and any small number from outside known to be transferring in) then he calculates according to, say, a minimum of 30 kids per class. That's six classes, spread over the whole school. Ten more enrolments and he can have seven. Seven classes means seven classrooms and seven teaching staff. If he has 212 kids this year, then it's looking like he has to sack a teacher, and the Dept will take away (physically - I kid you not) one of his classrooms. They won't take old, built-in rooms but they will cut back on other services. So the principal campaigns to get extra kids into the school/keep kids from leaving if he can. Now he has to work out WHAT classes he can have. He probably cannot have K, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 because the numbers rarely work out that way. He looks at his notes - 200 kids divided by 6 = 33, with 2 over. He can go up to 44 in each class but would rather not. There are 45 kids coming into Kindergarten. That means one straight K, and a composite K/1. Who can he put into K/1? He doesn't know these kids except maybe from a report from the pre-school teacher. So he bases his decisions on age. Who of this year's K will be in the K/1? He has room for 21 year 1 kids. But the number of Year 1s anticipated is 30. This means 9 kids left over. So there will have to be a 1/2 composite... and so on. I've seen school years when they had 6 classes including 1 straight K, all the others composite. This means a teacher can have 40 kids, across two grades, often spanning the full ability range of two grades, if you base it purely on age as the local school has done, including probably several kids who need aides but do not have them. I am very critical of a lot of things with our local school, not the least of which is the extreme apathy and inability to accept/effect change where it's needed; but I do feel a lot of this is down to them feeling ground down by the system to the point where they have simply had to stop caring, or burn out. Our local school has a lot of staff controlling the attitudes there, who are frankly just marking time until retirement. easy child 2/difficult child 2 wants to be a teacher and is near the end of her first year of training. I think she will find it very hard, I hope she also doesn't get ground down by the system. It's nasty. I know our local school is a bad example, we have a lot of good schools, but teachergirl, my heart goes out to you for the effort you're putting in. At least you're giving things a try. And Kathy, you need phones in your rooms. A buzzer simply isn't enough, it slows you down too much. A phone speeds things up, even if all that needs to be communicated is "Would Hettie James please come to the office?" A phone also communicates, "Would someone at the office please rush down with Janette Watson's epipen? She's just been stung by a bee." I hope you can get what you need before real problems result from this lack. This IS the 21st Century, the telecommunications age... I applaud a lot of what I see in US schools, although sometimes I hear horror stories which sound too familiar. I've met good teachers, I've seen good schools, I know it can be done even in a system like ours. And that is what makes me angry - when problems continue even though they don't have to. Teachergirl, I fear the others are correct and you are in for a difficult year. We are here to help as much as we can along the way. Again, welcome aboard. Marg [/QUOTE]
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