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Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by EC24, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. EC24

    EC24 New Member

    Well I guess I can say if I have found this site....I need help!! or to just feel common and know I am not the only one who has children who are a "little" okay a lot difficult at times :) My middle child the child who is giving us the most extreme difficulties currently. We are having to "restrain" her sometimes to keep everyone safe. We have had full neuropsychologist and are working on medications just not sure I like what I see so far. Most evenings after my long prayers to God for help I just cry. I hurt physically and emotionally. I wish there was a magic answer.
    We used Dr. Becky Bailey Conscious Discipline which worked well until she started kindergarten. Since school has started her behavior has dramatically decreased and unfortunately has made a name for herself. We are trying the Accountable Kids Program currently just to make it through the days responsibilities without an explosion. First day went well, second day terrible and today okay.
    I am embarrassed to say I have a degree in early childhood education. However, I am at a loss as to what to do for her. She listens to my husband MUCH better than me which drives me crazy!!!
    I am open to any advice on behavior modification plans, medication etc. anyone may have....I am desperate.
    Thank you and I am sooooo looking forward to this group.
  2. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Glad you found us but so sorry you needed to. As I was reading your post, one huge question I have is "what did the neuropsychologist say were the issues, diagnoses, recommendations?" We need to know what they say you are dealing with in order to help. Also, what medications is she currently on and what medications have you tried before?

    Sorry for the questions but your answers will help us a lot.
  3. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I am so sorry you lost your "angel." You've been through a lot.
    So, it's your 6-yr-old who is having problems, right? What did the neuropsychologist workup show? Until I know that, I don't know what to suggest, as I don't know how she processes information.
    Do you have to restrain her because she's going after the other kids? You? How does she react then? Does she eventually calm down?
    Does she have any digestive issues? Inner ear problems or past history of ear infection? Strep history?
    Do you know what her bio parents were like?
    It sounds to me like school is wearing her out and that there is too much stimulation. I'm just taking a shot in the dark.
  4. EC24

    EC24 New Member

    I have few details in signature but not what I should have included for help :). In a nutshell....she was adopted by us at age 3. She lived with the same foster care parents and great great grandparents since age 9months. Foster dad committed suicide when she was 2 1/2. Foster parents has numerous unsubstantiated abuse claims. She moved in with us and was adopted when she was 3. Long history mental illness in bio family.
    psychiatric report says she has ADHD: ODD (Not separate from the ADHD): not otherwise specified Mood Disorder: PTSD. She was considered developmentally delayed when she first moved in with us however after much work the psychiatric has cleared her of this label. She is actually a very bright girl but does not like to show it.
    We tried Intuniv and Straterra...they were horrible!!! We are now on Adderall XR and then a 5mg Adderall tablet after school. She is super focused (over focused) but her fits at home are still extreme!! (She has yet to have one of these at school. But she has had detention for hitting children :-(
    Natural 'medications" are Melatonin some evenings to help her sleep.
  5. EC24

    EC24 New Member

    The only area on process information that was a little delayed was receptive (hearing what was said). He did tell us that was very common for ADHD children. he could not do as much testing as he would have liked..she was about 6 months shy being old enough for computer tests.
    We restrain her because she is going after us, her sisters, destroying the house (she is only 6 and busted a solid oak door). She is very strong :) She will also break anything in her path.
    He did say he will not say she has Bipolar now but we need to watch for more symptoms as she gets older.
    Hope some of this helps some.
  6. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Wow, what a history she's got a weight on her from the beginning, doesn't she? Another book that may help you understand her is The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. It never hurts to rule in/out any possible allergies/intolerances, etc., because they can certainly add to problems. You can never be sure until you try and test just what a kid does best with. Mine does fine with gluten but horrible with processed meats, that's her Achilles heel when it comes to food.
  7. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    You already have a neuropsychologist report. So, can't send you there. But... I'm not convinced the report covers all the bases. So often, when interventions etc. don't work, it's because the dxes we do have are either incorrect or incomplete.

    Has she ever had an Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation for sensory and motor skills?
    She's a wee bit young for some of the testing, but... has she ever had an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation - auditory processing and language processing and so on?

    These might add to the picture.
  8. EC24

    EC24 New Member

    She has had Occupational Therapist (OT)/PT/Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation. when she was 3 and again at 5. She received Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) in early childhood special education but tested out for public school. I still think she is somewhat delayed in auditory processing. She never qualified for Occupational Therapist (OT) or PT in early childhood. However she did qualify in for Occupational Therapist (OT) with part B services before age 3. She still has some sensory issues. Overstimulates in certain environments. (Loud noises, lots of people). SHe does get two brain breaks for 20 minutes a day out of room and has a para with her for 90 minutes per day. She sits away from the majority of the class at a table with another child who is very quite and shy.
    We did do allergy testing (food and environmental) allergies.
    No ear infections or Strep.
    Carrier of MRSA but other wise healthy girl.
  9. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    The reason I'm asking is... there are three things that often go with adhd...
    1) motor skills issues - 50% of kids with ADHD have Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) - whether diagnosed or not. This is separate from sensory issues.
    2) LDs - various learning disabilities can show up when they start school, OR not until later.
    3) auditory processing disorders - 70% of kids with adhd plus a Learning Disability (LD), have Auditory Processing Disorders (APD).

    It is not unusual for "start of school" to trigger all sorts of reactions - in part because life at school is very different from life before school started. It is now more obvious if motor skills are "behind"... and far more impact if they are, both on the playground and in the classroom, plus the social impact that goes with.

    On top of that, APDs can look like ADHD, even if ADHD isn't there at all.

    And both motor skills issues, and APDs, can generate significant fatigue overload... which can spill over into behavior problems.

    Not saying this IS the problem... I'm just another parent. But... we HAVE been down this road.

    (the whole strep/PANDAS theory is also interesting... didn't know about that one)
  10. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Typical behavior programs do NOT work with most of our kids. The action-consequence-reward connections just aren't there. By doing these types of programs, it can almost be setting them up for failure.

    Just some possible other things you can look into to see if they MIGHT fit are Reactive Attachment Disorder, Autism Spectrum Disorders, as well as Sensory Integration Disorders. For kids with PTSD and/or Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) (like my son), physical restraints actually trigger the PTSD and the fight/flight response making things 100% worse. The LAST thing anyone should ever do with my son is physically restrain him. That will set off a sheer panic. However, in some cases (not ours), some kids like the secure feeling of being restrained so will act out in order to get that need met. They don't know how to get it appropriately so they do what works.

    The reason I bring all these things up is that there are SO many other ways to look at things. If what you're doing isn't working, you need to stop doing it and try something else. Doing the wrong thing can a lot of times cause even more damage, some irreparable. Sometimes it IS a very fine line we walk.
  11. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    I don't like stims with a mood disorder without having the mood stabilized first. Not a good idea, in my opinion.
  12. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Hi, our kids have a similar time line for foster care and adoption. Mine has a diagnosis of attachment disorder to go along with his other issues due to this. Typical behavioral methods were a disaster for us and continue to be so. Kids with histories like our kids have so many risk factors it can be super hard to sort through even with a good neuropsychologist. I found one thing they are not great with is attachment issues. They dont understand the full impact on a child and how not being with the right kind of therapist can actually make things become worse. In addition, it can be very hard to tell the difference between toxic exposure before birth, family history leading to mental health issues, milder autism spectrum issues, adhd/odd/anxiety, sensory integration disorders etc... they can overlap in so many ways.

    Was your Occupational Therapist (OT)/Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation private or public school? (I am an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) who works in schools so not dissing them, just that qualification is very different)... If she is continuing with some sensory issues then there could be much more going on than they realize. I would, if not done...go to a private clinic and ask specifically for attention to the sensory challenges along with a re-evaluation for the motor issues. If you think there could be auditory processing, then there probably is. At least given her delays, there could be a language processing issue. It could just be that she needs much more TIME to process and schools rarely allow for that time, I am sure you probably took classes where they actually had you count how long you waited before you called on kids for an answer...only to find it is not even a couple of seconds...we just dont give kids time enough.

    I bet by this time, when you have done so much investigating it can seem like nothing will help. I am here to tell you that even after 12 years I am finding new things that are making a difference. I promise you there is hope. Usually not one answer, a bunch of things that combine to help. medications can be super helpful but when they are not good, they can be a disaster! been there done that!!!!

    If you have a pediatric developmental therapy clinic anywhere near you maybe go through them. You might want to just make sure you are not dealing with any form of mild autism, or even just a child who has some autistic traits but not the full spectrum (currently called Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified). These kids act very much like your daughter. (of course many of the other things mentioned do too so am just throwing out one more consideration).

    You are for sure not alone .... also there are many of us here who are in related professions and it can almost work against us at times! I think people sometimes think well, you can handle this on your own, others get defensive and at times I feel like I have to dumb down what I say to people to make them not think I am doubting them or not valuing their input. Can be frustrating. Most of us are too close to our own kids to see all of the issues but on the other hand, as with any parent we know our kids the BEST.

    Hang in there, you are among friends. It is exhausting, never give up the fight. But if you need to, it is ok to take a break once in a while!
  13. EC24

    EC24 New Member

    My daughter did have attachement issues too. However, I noticed this fairly quickly and we found an AMAZING play therapist who specializes in children with trauma/attachment issues. I gave my four year old bottles and swaddled her up to sleep while rocking her. After a year of this therapy she is much more attached!
    The evaluations were through a public school and no I dont think they did a very good job. I think she still runs very odd for her age but she wont "qualify" for services. We have been to one pediatric developmental clinic.....we keep reaching dead ends when we are asking for more testing. We dont feel (or do any of the dr.'s) she shows any signs of being autistic but more on the lines of the "files" in her brains not being fully developed or still unorganized from the trauma from her past. The last psychiatric. told us and wrote in the report he does not see Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) related issues.
    However, he did tell us we may need to come back in a year or so and reevaluate. She is kind of a mystery to everyone....which is very overwhelming at times but we are learning some of the oddest things about her are the best :- )