new to the board - impulse control disorder

[nat73]

Ok so I just need someone to talk to…I know this long sorry. If you do read this and have advice I thank you in advance.
I’m worried about my oldest son who is 14 yrs. old. now.
I’m not even sure if this has any role in what is going on with- my son currently but who knows…………………
I guess the first weird thing that noticed with- him was his first day of kindergarten. He was 5 yrs. old and we had just moved to MS away from family & friends that summer. Anyway his first day of K he came home from school that day and told me his teacher had been killed, that there was blood all over the walls. It was gruesome and it bothered me at the time. I basically chalked it up to thinking maybe he saw something on TV or maybe another kid at school had told him a spooky story etc. He has never told me anything like that ever again though so I guess that was nothing.Also that same year I heard him talking in his bedroom and when no one else was in there. When I asked him who he was talking to he told me his friend…..anyway I put 2 and 2 together and decided he had an imaginary friend. I talked to friend from church and she told me not to worry her son had an imaginary friend too. Well my son quickly out grew this imaginary friend so I stooped worrying. Then a few months later the same year it was winter and I walked into the living room to find my son standing directly in front of the wall furnace and I could smell a weird smell. I ran over and grabbed him and told him to never stand close to furnace like that, well as I grabbed him I then saw that the back of his shirt had actually began to BURN…he was wearing on of those fury type fleece sweaters…….the shirt was not on fire but had sort of melted and there was a hole from the burn……..his back was not burned but I asked him didn’t he FEEL the heat starting to burn his shirt like that? He said no……….ok so then nothing more happened. Then fast forward to 6 yrs later when he was 11. We moved back to our home state and moved in with- my sister and her husband and 2 sons for a month until we found a house. One of her sons and my son is the same age.(but her son is twice my son's size - he's BIG)
Ok so while living with- them my son started miss-behaving ALL the time. He started getting in trouble at school by disrupting class by getting up & talking and not doing home work. He also was misbehaving while home. Some of the things he was doing was just kid stuff but some was true defiance, like purposely doing things to get in trouble it seemed. Anyway, so we moved a month later when found our house. Well then my son started to get worse, miss-behaving more, being defiant, ran away twice…..I found him both times – the police was never involved. The next 3 years leading up until now have been getting worse and worse…….he keeps doing things he’s not suppose to do. We are a Christian family, we go to church, live a decent lifestyle, don’t drink, smoke, party. Etc. We’ve raised our kids in church. Our son goes to a Christian school. Anyway, our son has ran away like I mentioned, he has stolen some of my jewelry to give to a girl, he has stolen an iPod from a class mate, we found 10 things of deodorant that he stole from class mates during gym class. I find money in his room that he says he “found” on the ground etc. I know he’s stealing it from someone at school. I know he has stolen money from my purse too. He takes things from his dad, like cd’s etc. and hides them. He stays in trouble at school. Constantly has to stay after school for detention. Never does his homework, makes bad grades. He lies ALL the time. I mean ALL the time!!!!!! I’ll see him do something or hear him say something and he’ll stand there and cry & say I don’t know what I’m talking about he never said or did that…etc. I can never, ever get the truth out of him! He goes to his room and cries and yells and sometimes throws stuff but never really gets violent…he’s never hit me or tried to hurt his little brother or sister….he just mouths, yells and cries, stomps, etc Well, a little over a year ago my son and my sisters son (who we lived with)were spending the night with- their grandmother (my mom) later that night my mom called and told me that she found my son & the cousin in her room with- their pants down. She said they were all watching TV & the cousin got up & a few minutes later called my son to come there. My son got up and went and they were gone for several minutes so mom went to see what they were doing and found them. She said my son was against the wall and the cousin was up on him….to her it looked like the cousin was the “instigator”…he called my son into the room and my son was between him and the wall. Well I went to get my son of course, that night at home he told me it was his cousin forcing him etc. but the cousin told his mom it was my son’s idea…etc. they both blamed each other. Well my sister and I talked and we both decided maybe it wasn’t nothing but kids ‘exploring” but I still kept my son away from his cousin. We kept going to the same church but I wouldn’t let my son spend the night with- him, go over to his house etc. my sister was upset about that by the way. Well then a few months later a friend from church where she, myself, and my sister all goes to church together called me and said her son told her that my son told him that his cousin, had been touching him on his privates, and wanting to have oral sex etc. The boy told his mom that my son’s cousin had been “molesting” him TOO and also another family of kids from church too but he was scared to tell his mom but when my son told him what happened to him he knew he had to tell his mom. That’s a whole other story but the short story is we stopped all contact with- my sister & her family, switched churches, etc. We told the pastor and my sister & her husband but they don’t believe my son or the other boy . they say my son is a liar (they are right he lies ) and they say because he is a liar they do not believe him. Well anyway we don’t have contact with- them anymore or the church because for some reason even though my son lies we believe him and the other boy.


I know this is getting LONG so I’ll try to quickly sum this up. A few months ago back toward the end of Oct. ’07. our other (youngest) son came and told me that his older brother had showed him some dirty pictures…..long story short our oldest son had snuck our computer and downloaded some adult pictures, put them on MY jump drive and then put them on his computer in his room (his computer is for school work & has never had internet access) anyway he put the pictures on his computer, delete them off my jump drive and then showed his little brother the pictures…..when we found out he of course talked to him about why it is not right for him to looking at porn etc. and how it is not ok to then show those pictures to his 8 yr. old brother. For punishment we grounded him, took privileges away like video games etc.
Then a few weeks later on the night of Nov. 13 I caught him watching an adult movie that he had ordered from an adult channel with me in the next room! (we had those channels locked but NewWave bought out Charter so they were resetting the cable boxes and apparently our parental controls got re-set) anyway so I’m just feet away in the next room and walk in to see that eh had ordered an adult movie! Of course I was mad, I yelled a little and said I can’t believe he doing this ya-da-ya –da. I then told him to go to his room it was almost bed time anyway and I would talk to his dad and we would deal with- his tomorrow that at that moment I just wanted him to go to bed! So off he went to bed. He slammed his door mouthing etc. I told him to open his door and went to make sure he did. I opened his door and told him to keep it open and just get in the bed and go to sleep. So I go back into the kitchen and I don’t know how long I was in there but it was a at least 30 minutes. I kept thinking I should go check on him….it was like a nagging feeling that I should just go check in on him so I did and when I got to his room he was hanging from his belt……..I don’t want to go into all the details as that was the worst night of my life. Long story short he tried to commit suicide. I found him at the state of unconsciousness………..anyway so he ended up in a psychiatric hospital for teens and was there until Thanksgiving. While in there he told the doctors that his cousin had actually done more than fondled him but actually penetrated him. and threatened him.
The doctors all believe him by the way. My son says that is not why he tried to commit suicide though. The sexual abuse came out through the counseling. He said he tried to commit suicide because he could not stop doing the “bad things” (lying, stealing, he even got into our neighbors mail and destroyed her mail for several days in a row, looking at porn etc.) he said he knew he was making me & his dad sad and cry and he didn’t want to but eh just couldn’t stop himself from doing the things he knew was wrong.
Ok so the dr. diagnosed him with- “impulse control disorder” and said he needed counseling for the addiction to porn, sexual abuse, low self-esteem. He put him on Strattera. Ok so he started taking that medication and we got him into counseling and he seemed to be doing well until New Years Eve. From New Years Eve until Jan 9 I noticed his “old” ways resurfacing ….well the morning of the 9th his dad found one of his straterra pills in the bottom of the toilet. Long story short after talking to him he told us he stopped taking the Starters about 2 weeks prior because it made him sick to his stomach and gave him a headache but he did not want to tell us for fear we make him go back to the hospital. Well I called his psychiatrist & the dr. that writes his prescription. The psy. Said he talked to my son about the importance of taking his medication and talking to us before stopping it again. When I called the medical dr. though she was rude and hateful telling me she could not get him in yet etc. so we’re looking for a new dr. In the mean time my son isn’t taking his medication because he says it makes him sick. Today & tonight he did nothing but act-up, mouth, etc. ugh………………..anyway thanks for listening.

Does anybody have a child who has been diagnosed with impulse control disorder? Does this sound like your child?

Sorry this is so long...I just wanted to give background.

 

[klmno]

Hello! It sounds like you've found a good place that can be of some help. I've never heard of impulse control disorder but I have a feeling that many parents here feel their difficult child's have it!

It sounds to me that something is going on with your son- maybe a little more than the diagnosis says right now. I would suggest a thorough evaluation by a psychiatrist and neuropsychological testing. In this case, the psychiatrist might be the first stop- don't panic- we all have kids with various problems here. Many parents can understand and you've reached out to a good place.

You deserve many {{{HUGS}}}!!!

I just wanted to welcome you and let you know that there is support here and other parents will be along to offer more advice than me. If you read the different opinions, you'll probably find one or more that "feel right" in your gut-

Good luck and keep us posted!!

 

[meowbunny]

Oh, hon, I'm so sorry. I don't if anyone has specifically had a child with that diagnosis but no question lack of impulse control is very common with our kids.

Kids who have been sexually abused come with a whole gamut of problems. A lot of his behavior does sound pretty common for one sexually abused -- the lying, stealing, porn, etc. The anger and mouthiness are probably a combination of the abuse and teenagedom. Fortunately, your son has opened up about it and that helps a lot. Hopefully, therapy and maybe a time with medications will make a huge difference.

I'm sure someone will come along to discuss the medication issues and maybe make some suggestions.

In the meantime, hugs! Your son is lucky that you were willing to listen and believe him. Hopefully, with time and a good therapist, he will get through this. It helps that he has such loving and caring parents.

 

[klmno]

by the way (by the way)- it is easy during times like this to go back and remember everything we noticed from birth that we didn't have a good explanation for. These things might, or might not, have anything to do with the problems your child has now. So, don't drive yourself crazy with these worries. You have taken steps to address the issues and you are on the right track.

I remember my son at about 7 or 8 yo saying he felt there was a good side of him and a bad side of him always telling him what he should do and he tried to do what is right, but sometimes he just couldn't help himself. Was that a major sign or just a kid realizing the normal "battle" between conscience and temptation? Who knows-

Hang in there!!

 

[smallworld]

There is such a disorder as Impulse Control Disorder in the DSM-IV. Here's a link that describes the disorder:

http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Impulse-control-disorders.html

Nat73, welcome. I'm glad you found us.

It sounds as if your son has a lot going on. Judging from your description, he could be having hallucinations (imaginary friend at age 5), depression (suicide attempt) and post-traumatic stress (abuse from cousin). I'd strongly recommend a new evaluation with a board-certified child psychiatrist. You really need to know what's going on so you can put the proper interventions into place.

I hope the Strattera will work, but you should know that it's an antidepressant used for the treatment of ADHD. It doesn't do much for anxiety or depression and it's only effective for about 40 percent of ADHD kids. Two of the most common side effects are headaches and stomachaches. It can also make kids irritable and moody.

Hang in there. We're here for you.

 

[mrscatinthehat]

First and foremost welcome. Second my difficult child 2 (my son) recently had a multidisciplinary evaluation and one of the diagnosis' they said was impulse control disorder. Many of the things you are talking about my difficult child 2 has done and a lot more. We are currently dealing with an extreme situation that has happened after much effort on our part to help him.

This is very challenging to deal with. You seem to be trying and that is great. If the Dr won't work with you or makes you feel bad it is definately time to get a new one.

Many hugs..

Beth

 

[Marguerite]

HI, welcome. Sorry you need to be here, but glad you are.

As to whether impulse control disorder is the full problem - my point of view is perhaps a typical Aussie one, a lot of things seem to get labelled according to how they present (as in "he has Freckle Syndrome" because he happens to have freckles) when in fact they may just be part of something bigger (such as "he has red hair, pale skin and a tendency to freckle when he gets out into the sun).

To be more specific - my youngest son has a diagnosis of autism. He's also got a diagnosis of ADHD. However, some people consider ADHD and autism to be on the same spectrum, so it's perhaps the same disorder, just being given two separate labels. And when you add in other 'labels' which in my son's case are actually manifestations of the autism in him, we get a long list of:
ADHD
autism (moderate)
Semantic Pragmatic Disorder
Dyspraxia
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
Hyperlexia
Anxiety
Sensory Integration Disorder
Impulse Control Disorder.

And probably many others. But in Australia, these aren't usually listed as discrete disorders but as manifestations of the already diagnosed autism. We treat the individual manifestations where we can and as they cause us trouble, but there are limits as to how much we can do at any one time.

Your son sounds like there could be a lot more going on than just "Impulse Control Disorder". You do have this one label, however, so it is still a useful starting point. I would keep looking, though, to see what else could be associated with it.

From your description and with the luxury of 20:20 hindsight, I would suspect a lot of your son's behaviour problems have been seriously complicated by the high likelihood of sexual abuse. His recent behaviour with his little brother - this often happens with someone who has been abused; they become an abuser.

You can short-circuit this but you will need to get him into counselling. If possible, get the little brother into counselling too, so he can be armed against any further attempts at abuse and know to report it to you.

Your difficult child may have been getting abused over a period of years. If so, it won't be an easy fix. My easy child was molested (again by another child) on a handful of occasions at most, but despite me getting her into counselling, there was a two year delay because she didn't tell me for that long, and there are still problems for her. Mind you, the counselling we got for her was woefully inadequate (again, 20:20 hindsight) and i think this may have also contributed to the failure to fully deal with it all. She does function well mostly, although there are subtle indications (such as her weight) that tell me she still has unresolved problems.

Back to your son - you mentioned that when he was 5, he burned his clothes while warming himself in front of the fire, apparently oblivious. He didn't feel hot, he didn't seem to smell anything. This sounds very much like a sensory integration issue - they often have unusual reactions to various sensory inputs, either being oversensitive (such as wanting clothing labels removed; refusing to wear certain fabrics or items; complaining about certain sounds) or being surprisingly insensitive, such as not feeling pain or heat or cold.
difficult child 3 was about 5 when he was climbing a tree while eating an icy pole. He fell out of the tree (he was pushed; he actually has good balance) and fell 2 metres landing head first on a rock. He didn't seem to notice the concussion, he was more concerned about where the icy pole was.
He would get a raging fever but seem OK otherwise - a medical examination would show middle ear infection and tonsillitis, but he gave no indication of having a sore throat or sore ears, when anybody else would have been screaming in agony. And yet he will moan for ages over a splinter in his finger. Today he's been wearing a heavy wool scarf all day because he has wryneck - it's blazing summer here, and he's been out shopping with us all day, wearing this scarf!

I would be looking further, considering your son may have another disorder (of which the impulse control is one part). I would be looking at a range of possibilities, including Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). You probably should get him assessed by a neuropsychologist to find out what is really going on. The sexual abuse would be on top of all this.

If he has Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (or something else) this would have still made him more vulnerable to being abused. I really worry about difficult child 3, he is such a trusting soul and it is so easy for him to be manipulated. Another young autistic boy we know, was molested by an aide who took advantage of his disability. A woman I know who is physically handicapped and living alone was repeatedly raped by a bus driver whose job it was to drive a group of physically disabled people on outings for a charity organisation. When she tried to speak up about it, she was not believed because they didn't want to lose "a good bus driver", and they also were assuming she was "not the full quid".

I'm sorry your church failed to support you. Unfortunately, that happens all too often. I'm glad you are not judging the faith by the actions of a few officials.

A book to check out - "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. A website to look at - http://www.childbrain.com. They have an unofficial Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire on the site. You can't use it to diagnose, but it might be worth you running the test on difficult child, see what you think, see if it gives you any clues or sense of direction. You can print the test and take it to the doctor to see if it gives the doctor any ideas also.

I'm not saying I think your son has Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) - we can't diagnose on this site, plus I only really understand Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), I don't know enough about other conditions (not at this level, anyway) to be able to properly compare. Plus, this poor lad has, I think, had a lot of different things to have to deal with.

If he is refusing his medications, at least he has told you why. I would praise him for being open about it. I think above all, you need to encourage him to be open with you. Kids lie to avoid getting into trouble. Even a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid can lie along the lines of "I didn't do it". They have more trouble making up complex stories that are completely untrue, unless someone has helped them to do so. For example, difficult child 3 came home from school and tell me, "Jack and his friends were hitting and kicking me today at school, that's why my knee is bleeding - they made me fall over by tripping me up." difficult child 3's friend then said yo me quietly, "I saw it - difficult child 3 is telling you the truth."
I wrote a note to his teacher asking him to help me find ways to keep difficult child 3 safer. The teacher's response was to interrogate difficult child 3 as follows: "Isn't it possible that Jack and his friends were not hurting you yesterday? Isn't it possible that you just tripped over your own shoelaces? They say you just fell over. You do understand that because of your autism, you sometimes misunderstand what is happening."
difficult child 3 then came home from school saying, "I thought Jack and his friends had deliberately hurt me, but my teacher explained how I must have been wrong." And the friend - too terrified to say any more on the topic, but sporting a few more bruises which he wouldn't talk about.

difficult child 3's new version of events was not technically a lie, but because he so readily changed his story, his teacher assumed he had lied about Jack and his friends. S Jack and friends continued to terrorise the classroom and playground, secure in the knowledge that they now had the technique down well for keeping themselves safe from retribution.

Right now you and your son are in difficulties. To say the least. You need to be able to work as a team on his mental health issues, and this won't be easy, given the onset of puberty and the increased oppositionality it brings.

Get the book. It will help you find ways to work with him as a team. You will probably need to change y our ideas on parenting, maybe even turn them on their head, but it will work. It will also work with any other kids you have.

I'm sorry you are not in contact with your sister, but under the circumstances it is for the best.
If your son has made it all up - staying away keeps her son in the clear of any more accusations. And if your son was telling the truth - staying away keeps HIM safe.
When the boys are older, maybe your sister will soften. Or maybe she will discover more for herself. Because an abuser, left untreated, will generally continue to abuse.

Stick around, stay in touch, keep us posted on how you get on. If you can, get your husband to lurk or post here too. You might think you're already working well as a team and nothing could make things better than perfect - trust me, we found our communication with each other improving out of sight when husband began lurking here.

Also, when you can do a sig so you don't have to keep telling us your important details (how old the kids are, what the diagnosis is etc) every time you post. It saves you time and energy.

Marg

 

[BusynMember]

Hi there and welcome. I have a few questions (and totally agree with smallmom here--get him in to a Psychiatrist (with the MD):

1/Is there any history of psychiatric or neurological disorders on either side of the family tree? Any substance abuse? Mood disorders?

2/How was his early development--walking, talking, interacting? I'm just a layperson, like everyone here, but I'm thinking it sounds like more than "impulse control disorder." It doesn't sound like your child has control over what he does and his behaviors are serious and even dangerous to him--and he can be helped. I think he may have been hallucinating too.

My own opinion is that I wouldn't trust a pediatrician to diagnose a psychiatric or neurological disorder. Straterra is an antidepressant used mostly for ADHD, but it can make kids who don't have ADHD (it can be a misdiagnosis) even worse. I would want a good Psychiatrist and/or neuropsychologist to look at him for an intensive evaluation. He's going into his teens and undiagnosed problems can lead to big problems then--like drug abuse. I've been there with my daughter--I'd be very proactive and look further.

Welcome again!

 

[daralex]

I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles - I know how frustrated you must be. My daughter was abused and I am in touch with the emotions that brings. She didn't try to kill herself but was cutting her arms to shreds for a while. As everyone else says, I am not an expert, just a mom, but have you thought of natural supplements in the interim? We can't afford to do so at the moment, but I have heard really great things about omega 3 oil and an amino acid called 5-HTP. These are fairly safe and can be thrown into a smoothie. They are supposed to help with depression and from everyone I've talked to there have been good results.
I'm so glad you found us - it's a great group and very supportive! Wish I could be of more help!! ((hugs)) Hang in there!!

 

[nvts]

Hi Nat73! You and your family have been through a lot! I'm so sorry to see that you're going through all of this.

You've been given some really great advice and should definately go for a neuropsychologist evaluation. They are usually done at a teaching or Childrens Hospital.

As far as taking his Strattera, difficult child 1 had the same problem with the stomach issues. Our doctor had us give him some peanut butter when he takes the pill. It had something to do with the medications "bonding" with the protein. Almost all of the stomach problems. corrected themselves once he started that. Try a teaspoon or so when he takes his medications and see if that helps.

You've found a great place. There are a lot of really intelligent people here with TONS of experience.

Again, welcome!

Beth

 

[crazymama30]

Hi, and welcome. Sounds like your difficult child has a lot going on. I would support those who say to get further evaluations, it does sound like he has alot going on. Hang in there. This is a good place to be, very supportive.

 

[nat73]

Thank you all so much! I feel better knowing that there are other parents who can relate. I've been so worried and stressed over all of this.

I so appreciate the links and book info and suggestions. etc. I will deff. look at the links provided and see about getting some of the suggested books.

To answer a few questions. He wasn't diagnosed until he tried to commit suicide and was admitted into a psychiatric hospital for teens. He was evaluated and diagnosed by
a board certified child psychiatrist. He was there for a week.

This doctor that diagnosed him and center are over 2 hours away & since we can not
drive there weekly or even monthly due to the distance we had to come home and get 2 new doctors. One local psy. Counsels him weekly and the other local psy. prescribes the medicine.

The doctor from the center who originally diagnose him
doesn't seem to think he's depressed. He thinks his suicide attempt was due to
the Impulse Control disorder....my son got in trouble that night for watching
the porn movie. He felt he could not stop himself from doing the things he had been doing so he in that moment decided we would better off without
him so he spontaneously got his belt and hung himself in hopes to die thinking our lives would be easier with-out him. The doctor explained that the strattera is usually given to ADHD patients but he wasn't diagnosis with- ADHD/ADD
but my son has a symptom (impulse control) and he thought this was the best medicine.
I would personally be interested in natural remedies (as someone mentioned) as I tend to get nervous thinking about the medications. So I may start looking in to that.

As for his early development; he has always had a speech impediment. His speech has improved A LOT though through speech therapy and “outgrowing” some of it…
...it use to be severe but now it's only minor....like some times it seems like his mind is going faster than what his mouth can get out. That's when he starts stuttering but like i
said he has learned to slow down and he has mproved dramatically! Other than that, he progressed at normal rate compared to other kids his age. He or none of our other kids went to pre-school or day care so they were all a bit overwhelmed when they
started K but they adjusted fine it seemed,

Also as for psychiatric disorders in the family; Yes my side of the family is saturated with- all sorts of mental disorders. On my mom's father's side I have an uncle (mom’s brother)
who is schizophrenic and an aunt (mom’s sister)
and several long distant relatives (great uncles and 3rd, 4th cousins)
that are manic depressed. My mom's grandma (her dad’s mom) was depressed as well as other mental issues like she would hide when people came to her house. She kept all her curtains, blinds etc. closed; she never wanted people to "see" her. Two long distant relatives committed suicide. Then on my mom's mother's side
I have 2 long distant cousins (my mom’s sister’s children)who are schizophrenic and another cousin who is manic depressed. On my dad's side nothing that I'm aware of and my husbands mom's side nothing that we are aware of and he does not know who his bio-father is so we know nothing about his dad's side.

Anyway, thank you all again so much. We do have another appointment. today with- the one psy.doctor who prescribes the medicine (not the psy. he goes to for counseling) I do not like this dr. we are going today. Anyway I'll keep y'all posted. Good luck to each of you with- each of your situations! I don't feel like I can offer any advice to any of you as this time because this is all new to me with- my son but I wish you all the best and thank
you each for your support that you have given me so far!
God bless,
~Me

 

[Mrs Smith]

I don't have any personal experience with bipolar disorder but from what I've researched: alcoholism, suicide and schizophrenia are all common associations with undx or misdx bipolar disorder. The impulsiveness could be driven by mania.

Good luck in your search!

 

[flutterbee]

Hi and welcome to the board.

It's not uncommon for suicide attempts to be impulsive acts. We tend to think of them as planned out, but often that's not the case. For example, one of the reasons suicide among patients with Borderline Personality Disorder is so high is because it is generally impulsive. It's hard to anticipate and intervene in those cases.

 

[TerryJ2]

Hi, welcome. You've got your plate full!
I, too, think there is something else going on besides, or in addition to, Impulse Control Disorder. I would also be concerned about the sexual abuse because your son doesn't sound like he has any coping skills whatsoever.
Do you attend counseling with-him or does he go alone? Do they give you any behavior modification ideas? Any more ideas for medications?