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<blockquote data-quote="rlsnights" data-source="post: 309960" data-attributes="member: 7948"><p>Welcome J. I know exactly what you mean about negative patterns seeming to take over.</p><p></p><p>Well, my first suggestion is that you and your partner or each individually, start working with a therapist who has a few years under the belt, preferably dealing with adolescents or children with serious mental illness. In my experience, that may be the best resource to help you identify and break or at least modify the way the adults in the house are reacting to problem behaviors in your child/ren.</p><p></p><p>You can do it yourselves but it takes stepping back and evaluating your situation without attaching your customary attributions to everything that happens. In plain English, you've got to give up your ideas about how things should be and accept the situation for what it is. Once you've done that you can move on to choosing appropriate goals and expectations for your son (and everyone else) based on present reality.</p><p></p><p>In my own life, I have found that a lot of the negative interactions that happen in our home arise because my/our expectations do not fit our reality. It may not be reasonable to expect the same things from your difficult child that you would expect from a within normal limits (within normal limits) 10 year old. As long as you resist that reality you will have a lot of conflict. That's not to say that you shouldn't hold expectations, just that you need to examine those expectations and adjust them in a realistic way.</p><p></p><p>For example, you wouldn't expect a child without sight to read a regular book or even to read braille without a lot of instruction. In a similar way, it may not be appropriate to expect your difficult child to behave in certain ways under certain conditions. Why should he care about his toys when he has more at his dad's perhaps? Maybe he feels helpless to change his behavior and everyone around him seems controlled by his behavior - creating as nasty a trap as a 10 year old can find for himself. As the adults you must find a way to step back and stay in control. Much easier said than done but it is possible.</p><p></p><p>You don't say whether difficult child is having these problems at DEX's house. Most of what I have to say next applies if he's having at least some problems in both places or also at school (sounds like he is) that suggest that he is struggling with something more than ADHD. It may at first look like he's doing fine at DEX's but upon closer examination you may find that there are problems there too - just not as in your face as at your house.</p><p></p><p>If you truly think he is just trying to get his way by being an obnoxious delinquent then some of this stuff will still hold true because you still have to create some emotional distance before you can effectively design interventions. I would be pretty cautious about assigning this meaning to the behavior you're seeing given his genetic heritage. It may just be that he feels safe at your house and so you get to see him at his worst. </p><p></p><p>At lot of times, defiance in kids with mood issues is really hypomania/mania. It's a kid's version of grandiosity. They're as important as the adults. They can control your behavior with their own. They are immune to any punishment you give them because they are above it all. Do you see how this can be symptomatic of grandiosity and impaired reality testing?</p><p></p><p>With my difficult child 2 anxiety is often the real culprit, hiding behind the lies and anger. If I can figure out what he is afraid will or won't happen - whether it's losing face or a playdate or having to spend time doing chores - I can then address the real issue. He is rarely able to say or even sense what it is that he's really upset about. That is one of the expectations we had to give up - that our 13 year old should be able to tell us what he's upset about. He can't most of the time and we've learned to work with him given that assumption and over time he is gradually learning to figure it out and say what is up.</p><p></p><p>It's nearly impossible to do the kind of analysis I'm talking about in the heat of the moment. You have to take time when it's peaceful to think about this stuff. Sometimes writing it all down can be very helpful. Write down all your disappointments, your complaints, your frustrations, your dreams and hopes for him. Then sleep on it. Go back and read it all again. Take a highlighter and highlight any "shoulds" or "if only" or "why can't he" - you get the idea. These phrases will give you clues to your agenda or expectations for him. Once those are in the open you can examine them and do some reality testing of your own.</p><p></p><p>Are your expectations appropriate given what your son has to work with in terms of emotional stability, intelligence and maturity? If you think they are appropriate and he cannot consistently meet those expectations, then you may have mis-calculated and need to develop some different expectations or smaller goals for him. </p><p></p><p>All this assumes that he has been thoroughly assessed and is in treatment for what sounds to me (having a difficult child with very similar issues) like at least a mood disorder if not bipolar. Expecting stability from him right now may be one of those unreasonable "shoulds" you have to give up for now. You may have to meet him where's he's at and accept that where's he at may change with every passing moment.</p><p></p><p>Among your partner's list of issues was his lack of response to consequences. Our easy child/difficult child 3 has passive aggressive down to a science. It's a very successful approach because it's really hard to combat and it gives a deep sense of satisfaction and control when successful.</p><p></p><p>One thing that we've found helpful is taking the door off her room so she cannot easily isolate herself. Another thing you could try is stripping his room of everything and asking him to earn things back one by one. I mean everything except two or three changes of clothes (take away all his favorites) and a comforter for his bed. Some folks I've talked to even take the bed away and make their difficult child sleep on the floor for a while.</p><p></p><p>We took away all of easy child/difficult child 3's clothes except for one pair of jeans, her underwear and 2 shirts (including all of her new school clothes) and made her earn them back one piece/day after she went ballistic on us and did damage to the house. Worked like a charm. But she is not dangerously unstable due to bipolar. And we did this from the perspective of positive engagement instead of from a place of anger and punishment. If it's punishment then your difficult child is likely to feel that he is still in charge because you are reacting to his behavior emotionally.</p><p></p><p>You and your partner must sit down together and agree on a set of absolute basic safety rules that apply to everyone in the house. Carefully consider what other rules you feel are worth battling over with difficult child. It should be a pretty short list.</p><p></p><p>Then comes the hard part. You have to develop a plan that says what's going to happen if those rules are violated. It would be very helpful if difficult child knew exactly what those rules are AND that those rules applied in both households with consequences given in one place that apply in the other. If he loses his door he loses both doors. If he loses everything but a handful of clothes - same deal at dad's. I understand that DEX isn't on the same page with you. But if he really doesn't want difficult child coming to live with him full time, he out to be willing to at least give some stuff a try.</p><p></p><p>Ask DEX if he really wants to wait until difficult child turns 18 to find out what happens when he shoves people at work because he's mad or tells lies to his boss. If he says well difficult child is only 10 you say, right. So you're saying he should be 11? 12? 13? 15? what? at what age do we start to teach him this stuff? Why not now?</p><p></p><p>Then pick one rule that's really important to you and ask him to apply just that one rule. I don't mean rules like no video games. I mean rules like not being honest or breaking things.</p><p></p><p>I hope this is helpful and that you find a way to break the patterns. It is a great first step to have recognized that you are stuck and need to make big changes.</p><p></p><p>Got to go fix dinner. Best wishes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rlsnights, post: 309960, member: 7948"] Welcome J. I know exactly what you mean about negative patterns seeming to take over. Well, my first suggestion is that you and your partner or each individually, start working with a therapist who has a few years under the belt, preferably dealing with adolescents or children with serious mental illness. In my experience, that may be the best resource to help you identify and break or at least modify the way the adults in the house are reacting to problem behaviors in your child/ren. You can do it yourselves but it takes stepping back and evaluating your situation without attaching your customary attributions to everything that happens. In plain English, you've got to give up your ideas about how things should be and accept the situation for what it is. Once you've done that you can move on to choosing appropriate goals and expectations for your son (and everyone else) based on present reality. In my own life, I have found that a lot of the negative interactions that happen in our home arise because my/our expectations do not fit our reality. It may not be reasonable to expect the same things from your difficult child that you would expect from a within normal limits (within normal limits) 10 year old. As long as you resist that reality you will have a lot of conflict. That's not to say that you shouldn't hold expectations, just that you need to examine those expectations and adjust them in a realistic way. For example, you wouldn't expect a child without sight to read a regular book or even to read braille without a lot of instruction. In a similar way, it may not be appropriate to expect your difficult child to behave in certain ways under certain conditions. Why should he care about his toys when he has more at his dad's perhaps? Maybe he feels helpless to change his behavior and everyone around him seems controlled by his behavior - creating as nasty a trap as a 10 year old can find for himself. As the adults you must find a way to step back and stay in control. Much easier said than done but it is possible. You don't say whether difficult child is having these problems at DEX's house. Most of what I have to say next applies if he's having at least some problems in both places or also at school (sounds like he is) that suggest that he is struggling with something more than ADHD. It may at first look like he's doing fine at DEX's but upon closer examination you may find that there are problems there too - just not as in your face as at your house. If you truly think he is just trying to get his way by being an obnoxious delinquent then some of this stuff will still hold true because you still have to create some emotional distance before you can effectively design interventions. I would be pretty cautious about assigning this meaning to the behavior you're seeing given his genetic heritage. It may just be that he feels safe at your house and so you get to see him at his worst. At lot of times, defiance in kids with mood issues is really hypomania/mania. It's a kid's version of grandiosity. They're as important as the adults. They can control your behavior with their own. They are immune to any punishment you give them because they are above it all. Do you see how this can be symptomatic of grandiosity and impaired reality testing? With my difficult child 2 anxiety is often the real culprit, hiding behind the lies and anger. If I can figure out what he is afraid will or won't happen - whether it's losing face or a playdate or having to spend time doing chores - I can then address the real issue. He is rarely able to say or even sense what it is that he's really upset about. That is one of the expectations we had to give up - that our 13 year old should be able to tell us what he's upset about. He can't most of the time and we've learned to work with him given that assumption and over time he is gradually learning to figure it out and say what is up. It's nearly impossible to do the kind of analysis I'm talking about in the heat of the moment. You have to take time when it's peaceful to think about this stuff. Sometimes writing it all down can be very helpful. Write down all your disappointments, your complaints, your frustrations, your dreams and hopes for him. Then sleep on it. Go back and read it all again. Take a highlighter and highlight any "shoulds" or "if only" or "why can't he" - you get the idea. These phrases will give you clues to your agenda or expectations for him. Once those are in the open you can examine them and do some reality testing of your own. Are your expectations appropriate given what your son has to work with in terms of emotional stability, intelligence and maturity? If you think they are appropriate and he cannot consistently meet those expectations, then you may have mis-calculated and need to develop some different expectations or smaller goals for him. All this assumes that he has been thoroughly assessed and is in treatment for what sounds to me (having a difficult child with very similar issues) like at least a mood disorder if not bipolar. Expecting stability from him right now may be one of those unreasonable "shoulds" you have to give up for now. You may have to meet him where's he's at and accept that where's he at may change with every passing moment. Among your partner's list of issues was his lack of response to consequences. Our easy child/difficult child 3 has passive aggressive down to a science. It's a very successful approach because it's really hard to combat and it gives a deep sense of satisfaction and control when successful. One thing that we've found helpful is taking the door off her room so she cannot easily isolate herself. Another thing you could try is stripping his room of everything and asking him to earn things back one by one. I mean everything except two or three changes of clothes (take away all his favorites) and a comforter for his bed. Some folks I've talked to even take the bed away and make their difficult child sleep on the floor for a while. We took away all of easy child/difficult child 3's clothes except for one pair of jeans, her underwear and 2 shirts (including all of her new school clothes) and made her earn them back one piece/day after she went ballistic on us and did damage to the house. Worked like a charm. But she is not dangerously unstable due to bipolar. And we did this from the perspective of positive engagement instead of from a place of anger and punishment. If it's punishment then your difficult child is likely to feel that he is still in charge because you are reacting to his behavior emotionally. You and your partner must sit down together and agree on a set of absolute basic safety rules that apply to everyone in the house. Carefully consider what other rules you feel are worth battling over with difficult child. It should be a pretty short list. Then comes the hard part. You have to develop a plan that says what's going to happen if those rules are violated. It would be very helpful if difficult child knew exactly what those rules are AND that those rules applied in both households with consequences given in one place that apply in the other. If he loses his door he loses both doors. If he loses everything but a handful of clothes - same deal at dad's. I understand that DEX isn't on the same page with you. But if he really doesn't want difficult child coming to live with him full time, he out to be willing to at least give some stuff a try. Ask DEX if he really wants to wait until difficult child turns 18 to find out what happens when he shoves people at work because he's mad or tells lies to his boss. If he says well difficult child is only 10 you say, right. So you're saying he should be 11? 12? 13? 15? what? at what age do we start to teach him this stuff? Why not now? Then pick one rule that's really important to you and ask him to apply just that one rule. I don't mean rules like no video games. I mean rules like not being honest or breaking things. I hope this is helpful and that you find a way to break the patterns. It is a great first step to have recognized that you are stuck and need to make big changes. Got to go fix dinner. Best wishes. [/QUOTE]
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