I just stumbled on this website today. I feel so alone in all of this. My husband even thinks that our daughter (5 yrs) will outgrow her behavior, but the more we ignore it the more she acts out. About a year ago I noticed that her hyperactivity was becoming more and more pronounced. Then she started wetting her pants again but there was no pattern to any of it. She sometimes drinks fluids to the point where she makes herself physically ill. So I have to watch her when she is given a sports bottle or something like it. Her 4K and preschool teachers started complaining that she was acting out in the classroom more so than the other children. My daughter's daycare has been established for well over 40 years, so if they were pointing out behavior I took it that it was pretty serious. She was having several peeing accidents a week and many outbursts in the classroom. I started taking her to a psychologist in November of 07. Immediately they had diagnosed her with ADHD and ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder) and put her on Folcalin CR for the ADHD. Within the first couple of days the daycare said they could see a major difference. While she was still peeing in her pants, they weren't as frequent. She also started showing emotions for punshiment--which was a big change. Around the 2nd month she started showing signs of depression on somedays. Usually it was days where she didn't eat enough at breakfast time. Her doctor assured me that she was fine and to try it for another month. Over the next month in a half her old attitude returned. Her doctor refused to change her medications and I felt like I was wasting away $150/mo for nothing. She also claimed that her potty issues would resolve themselves and that it was normal behavior. Considering she starts school this fall, I had a big problem with that. We were right back where we started from. Due to financial problems, and lack of faith in her doctor, I took away her medications and stopped her treatment. Over the past month she has now become even more abnormal. There have been 3 instances in the past month that she has deficated for no apparent reason. My daughter has never suffered from consitpation. She went into the girls bathroom at school and deficated on the floor which was only 5 ft from a toilet. She also deficated on the floor of her room. Friday she went in the girl's bathroom at the daycare and smeared fecal matter on each of the toilets. I've made an appointment with a new therapist and I'm hoping to have an intelligent doctor. I just need a kind word from someone else who has been there. I'm terrified that my daugher, as intelligent as she is, will be placed in a Special Education class because of her behavior. I feel as if no one else understands what I'm dealing with.
Newbie in need of support
- Thread starter Sintori
- Start date
busywend
Well-Known Member
Welcome. I am sorry that you had to find us, but you will be glad you did.
The problem you mention is called Encopresis. Here are a few links to some archived posts about it.
http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185&highlight=encopresis
http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317&highlight=encopresis
I think your daughter needs to see a neuropsychologist for testing first and then I would hope for a specialist for therapy. You will need someone to work with her that is really familiar with her issues.
The problem you mention is called Encopresis. Here are a few links to some archived posts about it.
http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185&highlight=encopresis
http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317&highlight=encopresis
I think your daughter needs to see a neuropsychologist for testing first and then I would hope for a specialist for therapy. You will need someone to work with her that is really familiar with her issues.
Hi Sintori and welcome.
I probably have more questions than suggestions at this point (sorry!). Has her development been pretty "normal" other than these behaviors? Did she have any troubles as an infant, or you with her pregnancy? Is there any history in your or her father's family of depression, mood disorders, mental illness, or substance abuse? Does she have "outbursts" at home, and do you know what is likely to trigger them? What does an outburst look like?
My bias would be to have her not only seen by a therapist, but also a psychiatrist and/or neurologist, after a quick jaunt to the pediatrician to rule out any physiologic problem causing the toileting issues - though I have to say, playing with feces at 5 sounds to me to be pretty behavioral (though it's been 12 years since I've had to deal with that particularly fun behavior).
I'm so sorry - I know this is scary stuff to be dealing with, but it does sound like she needs a thorough physical and psychiatric evaluation to try to get to the root of this.
Again, welcome and I'm so glad you found us!
I probably have more questions than suggestions at this point (sorry!). Has her development been pretty "normal" other than these behaviors? Did she have any troubles as an infant, or you with her pregnancy? Is there any history in your or her father's family of depression, mood disorders, mental illness, or substance abuse? Does she have "outbursts" at home, and do you know what is likely to trigger them? What does an outburst look like?
My bias would be to have her not only seen by a therapist, but also a psychiatrist and/or neurologist, after a quick jaunt to the pediatrician to rule out any physiologic problem causing the toileting issues - though I have to say, playing with feces at 5 sounds to me to be pretty behavioral (though it's been 12 years since I've had to deal with that particularly fun behavior).
I'm so sorry - I know this is scary stuff to be dealing with, but it does sound like she needs a thorough physical and psychiatric evaluation to try to get to the root of this.
Again, welcome and I'm so glad you found us!
tryinghard
New Member
Hi,
I wanted to offer you my support and let you know that even though my son hasn't done exactly what your daughter has...he has done a lot of things where I feel no one understands.
You have found a GREAT place with GREAT people who have GREAT advice.
Please know that you are not alone. We are all great parents who want the best for our children.
I know others will come along with great advice...
Take care
I wanted to offer you my support and let you know that even though my son hasn't done exactly what your daughter has...he has done a lot of things where I feel no one understands.
You have found a GREAT place with GREAT people who have GREAT advice.
Please know that you are not alone. We are all great parents who want the best for our children.
I know others will come along with great advice...
Take care
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
Hi Sintori,
welcome. Here's a cup of tea ...
Sounds like the medications worked but/and you could try a diff medication this time around.
In addition to ADHD, your daughter may also have allergy issues, which could contribute to her wetting and bowel movement issues. She clearly knows she's supposed to sit on the toilet or she wouldn't be in there to begin with, so it may be a combination of her really needing to go and her impulsivity, immaturity and sensory issues.
You mentioned that she was depressed if she didn't eat enough at breakfast, which is a good obsevation (I'm thinking hypoglycemia) but since you took her off the medications, it may have been a rebound effect, as well. I don't have a good idea of the time frame.
Can you take her for a physical b4 the next therapist appointment and run blood tests and talk to the dr about the issues? I'm often surprised at the insights some pediatricians come up with. Also, they can prescribe medications.
I am confused as to how her previous psychologist could have prescribed Focalin, unless you meant to say s/he was a psychiatrist. We are very good at making sure our son's child psychiatric and pediatrician communicate and have info so there are no missing pieces.
I know your daughter must wear you out. You are wise to stay on top of things and help her out, because some of this can be outgrown and some cannot.
Did you ask her why she smeared feces in the bathroom? Did she just really have to go? Was she playing? Angry?
I'm wondering if drinking fluids to the point of nausea is just part of the impulsivity or if it's something more. It will help once you get a good diagnosis.
Take care.
welcome. Here's a cup of tea ...
Sounds like the medications worked but/and you could try a diff medication this time around.
In addition to ADHD, your daughter may also have allergy issues, which could contribute to her wetting and bowel movement issues. She clearly knows she's supposed to sit on the toilet or she wouldn't be in there to begin with, so it may be a combination of her really needing to go and her impulsivity, immaturity and sensory issues.
You mentioned that she was depressed if she didn't eat enough at breakfast, which is a good obsevation (I'm thinking hypoglycemia) but since you took her off the medications, it may have been a rebound effect, as well. I don't have a good idea of the time frame.
Can you take her for a physical b4 the next therapist appointment and run blood tests and talk to the dr about the issues? I'm often surprised at the insights some pediatricians come up with. Also, they can prescribe medications.
I am confused as to how her previous psychologist could have prescribed Focalin, unless you meant to say s/he was a psychiatrist. We are very good at making sure our son's child psychiatric and pediatrician communicate and have info so there are no missing pieces.
I know your daughter must wear you out. You are wise to stay on top of things and help her out, because some of this can be outgrown and some cannot.
Did you ask her why she smeared feces in the bathroom? Did she just really have to go? Was she playing? Angry?
I'm wondering if drinking fluids to the point of nausea is just part of the impulsivity or if it's something more. It will help once you get a good diagnosis.
Take care.
J
Jan71
Guest
My heart goes out to you. My youngest difficult child (boy) is now 7 and also smeared fecal matter all over the walls of his bedroom when he was younger. Talk about a mess! I know it is exhausting. In his case, I do believe it was behavioral. He always wanted to be in control, and when he didn't get his way, or when he was upset, he would do that. He is on Focalin (15 mg) now for ADHD. It helps somewhat with the hyperactivity but very little for the ODD problems. It seemed to work better when he first started taking it than it does now.
I don't have all the answers. I just wanted to let you know others understand, even though those around you likely do not. You can always come here for help and support. I hope things improve for you and your family.
I don't have all the answers. I just wanted to let you know others understand, even though those around you likely do not. You can always come here for help and support. I hope things improve for you and your family.
Glad you found us but sorry you have reason to be here. No matter what you are facing, it seems someone here has been in a similar situation and will offer to advice.
Sounds like more than ADHD and I'd suggest seeking a more thorough evaluation for your daughter. A therapist may help her/you to understand the reason for the encopresis.
Let us know how things are going.
Welcome,
Christy
Sounds like more than ADHD and I'd suggest seeking a more thorough evaluation for your daughter. A therapist may help her/you to understand the reason for the encopresis.
Let us know how things are going.
Welcome,
Christy
timer lady
Queen of Hearts
Just popping in to offer you my welcome. The others have given you some food for thought (pretty much what I would have asked & said) & it doesn't bear repeating.
I hope in the midst of all this you can find some time for yourself; to recharge.
Good luck at your upcoming appointments.
I hope in the midst of all this you can find some time for yourself; to recharge.
Good luck at your upcoming appointments.
babyblue31
New Member
I understand complelely althrough my 4y sons hasn't got that far and I pray that he don't.. I am here for you!!!!
Thanks everyone for you replies. Maybe I should mention that she was going to a therapist and a psychiatric. Their communication was nil. The psychiatric barely spoke english and I could hardly understand her. She told me that the wetting was "normal" for her age. Her therapist contradicted the Dr.'s asuumption that it was normal. She was very concerned about my daughter's behavior and said it was far from average. She also ruled out that it was a physical problem, but behavioral. My daughter even told the therapist that she would "choose" places to act out. And this is true. If we go around town running errands she will ask to go potty and have no problems at all. She knows if she wets herself husband will stay in the car with her until I'm done. So she acts like a "big girl" so that she can do things with me. If she's at home, she doesn't care. She'll wet herself numerous times in the day. At daycare she usually only wets herself once a day, but sometimes it's several times. I have depression on my side of the family but it's never been severe enough to see medications for it except when I was put on Ortho for birth control. The rest of her development is fine, but she is suffering in her preschool education. She's one of the lowest in her class, but I'm sure that's because of the ADHD. She starts Kindergarten in August. In the back of my mind I hoped the transition to "big school" would snap her out of this, but I'm starting to think the stress of growing up is making it worse.
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