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Newbie with ODD child
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 295381" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I've seen his photo - he's a gorgeous kid. And a credit to you, MWM.</p><p></p><p>He also is a credit to himself. You showed him te way and he is smart enough and willing enough to take a good lead.</p><p></p><p>All kids have this capacity, but the longerthey rage and kick against the system (and parents - sometimes literally!) the harder it can be to find teir way back.</p><p></p><p>No kid WANTS to be bad. Well, maybe the extremely rare sociopath, but even they want to learn how to be good so they can keep their freedom when they get older...</p><p></p><p>The thing is, if she presents as ODD then look for the underlying reason. Something is very wrong and she needs help.</p><p></p><p>We tend to raise our kids using methods which were used on us. Hey, we turned out alright, didn't we?</p><p>The trouble is, these methods which can be so successful for some people, can actually make others a lot worse. And if a discipline method is not working or is unenforcable, drop it. It's better to have anarchy, than to have failure. because anarchy is apparently with your permission. Failure is you losing face and that is BAD.</p><p></p><p>So don't start a battle you know you can't win.</p><p></p><p>Read the books recommended. As a priority - Ross Greene's methods have saved so many of us and our kids. A lot of his methods can seem counterintuitive, but they work. If you need a quick preview, Google the books, I found sample chapters online. There is also some discussion on Explosive Child in the Early Childhood forum that would be worth a look for you.</p><p></p><p>I suspect what is happening, is an ongoing battle between you and her for control. But although you are an adult, you have other focusses and distractions in your life, while she is able to focus every ounce of her (very strong) willpower into getting what SHE wants. Remember this - when it comes to a battle of wills, SHE WILL WIN. If not today, then soon.</p><p>So do your best to wither not engage, or instead use her willpower to get what you want.</p><p></p><p>That actually can happen more easily than you think. The way we raise our kids, is to take them through various stages of personal development. difficult children seem to need to take longer to go through these dstages and to need a lot more support in the process. But some difficult children (the explosive ones especially, the stubborn ones, the ones needing control) may actually be able to skip some stages in these areas, by learning to use their stubbornness and turn it into self-discipline.</p><p></p><p>The difference comes down to control. She needs to know she has choice. Your recent use of choice for her was very good. Why did it fail? Did she lose track of time or did she abuse the freedom of choice to try to dodge the work? </p><p></p><p>The other important thing to use - natural consequences. If homework isn't done, she gets into trouble at school. It's not your problem, but if she asks you for help, you can be a support and maybe offer to remind her to do her homework. Or you can offer to help her work out how to do a tricky problem. But at the first sign of tantrum - not your problem. Walk away.</p><p></p><p>I've had my kids begging me to come back and help them do their homework!</p><p></p><p>Try to get into her head - why would she avoid homework? Often it's because of the anxiety that builds inside. She may be happy playing a game (with just a small niggle inside that she has homework to do and it makes her anxious to just think about it). You say/her conscience says, "You have homework to do," and the anxiety suddenly ramps up to nausea stage. But if she turns away to determinedly play more of her game, the anxiety subsides a little. This is the positive feedback which actually teaches her to avoid doing homework! It's very hard to counter-teach her to do her homework, when her own anxiety and adreanalin levels are conspiring to teach the opposite.</p><p></p><p>She needs to feel in control - giving her choice of how to do it and which to do first is good. But if one sybject scares her more than the other, she will willingly do the easy one and tantrum over the tricky one. Or find other things she has to do - displacement activity. It's normal, we all do it. Adults do it.</p><p></p><p>So if she can learn, NOW, to recognise displacementactivity and find her own ways to overcome it, then she will be able to do something, as a child, that a lot of adults never properly learn.</p><p></p><p>That is just an example of the sort of logic you need with a child like this. There is a lot you can do to hlep her. The thing is - she needs you as a helper, not as a tyrant controlling her. As tings currently stand, you're associated with the yucky anxiety feeling and that is what she wants to avoid, that's why she hits you. It's not right.</p><p></p><p>Onoe of the big things with "Explosive Child" is learning to avoid tantrums, to walk away or try to de-escalate. It's not spoiling her for you to try to avoid a tantrum. Nor is it failing her to let someone else take responsibility for punishing her for school-related things. Life has its way of taking vengeance on us all when we break the rules. And if it's life punishing her, then it's NOT YOUR FAULT in her eyes.</p><p></p><p>"The teacher gave you detention for not doing homework? Oh dear, that is unfortunate darling. What can we do to help you avoid this happening again? I'm here to help you. Of course I can't make the detention go away, I am not your teacher. But can you think of a way I can help you get your homework turned in on time next week?"</p><p></p><p>It's not magic, there will be setbacks. But a minor setback has to be preferable to a two hour tantrum.</p><p></p><p>We're here. We're either dealing with the same issues or we've worked our way through this already. Feel free to pick our brains and dump on us as needed.</p><p></p><p>Welcome. Sorry you need us, glad we're here.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 295381, member: 1991"] I've seen his photo - he's a gorgeous kid. And a credit to you, MWM. He also is a credit to himself. You showed him te way and he is smart enough and willing enough to take a good lead. All kids have this capacity, but the longerthey rage and kick against the system (and parents - sometimes literally!) the harder it can be to find teir way back. No kid WANTS to be bad. Well, maybe the extremely rare sociopath, but even they want to learn how to be good so they can keep their freedom when they get older... The thing is, if she presents as ODD then look for the underlying reason. Something is very wrong and she needs help. We tend to raise our kids using methods which were used on us. Hey, we turned out alright, didn't we? The trouble is, these methods which can be so successful for some people, can actually make others a lot worse. And if a discipline method is not working or is unenforcable, drop it. It's better to have anarchy, than to have failure. because anarchy is apparently with your permission. Failure is you losing face and that is BAD. So don't start a battle you know you can't win. Read the books recommended. As a priority - Ross Greene's methods have saved so many of us and our kids. A lot of his methods can seem counterintuitive, but they work. If you need a quick preview, Google the books, I found sample chapters online. There is also some discussion on Explosive Child in the Early Childhood forum that would be worth a look for you. I suspect what is happening, is an ongoing battle between you and her for control. But although you are an adult, you have other focusses and distractions in your life, while she is able to focus every ounce of her (very strong) willpower into getting what SHE wants. Remember this - when it comes to a battle of wills, SHE WILL WIN. If not today, then soon. So do your best to wither not engage, or instead use her willpower to get what you want. That actually can happen more easily than you think. The way we raise our kids, is to take them through various stages of personal development. difficult children seem to need to take longer to go through these dstages and to need a lot more support in the process. But some difficult children (the explosive ones especially, the stubborn ones, the ones needing control) may actually be able to skip some stages in these areas, by learning to use their stubbornness and turn it into self-discipline. The difference comes down to control. She needs to know she has choice. Your recent use of choice for her was very good. Why did it fail? Did she lose track of time or did she abuse the freedom of choice to try to dodge the work? The other important thing to use - natural consequences. If homework isn't done, she gets into trouble at school. It's not your problem, but if she asks you for help, you can be a support and maybe offer to remind her to do her homework. Or you can offer to help her work out how to do a tricky problem. But at the first sign of tantrum - not your problem. Walk away. I've had my kids begging me to come back and help them do their homework! Try to get into her head - why would she avoid homework? Often it's because of the anxiety that builds inside. She may be happy playing a game (with just a small niggle inside that she has homework to do and it makes her anxious to just think about it). You say/her conscience says, "You have homework to do," and the anxiety suddenly ramps up to nausea stage. But if she turns away to determinedly play more of her game, the anxiety subsides a little. This is the positive feedback which actually teaches her to avoid doing homework! It's very hard to counter-teach her to do her homework, when her own anxiety and adreanalin levels are conspiring to teach the opposite. She needs to feel in control - giving her choice of how to do it and which to do first is good. But if one sybject scares her more than the other, she will willingly do the easy one and tantrum over the tricky one. Or find other things she has to do - displacement activity. It's normal, we all do it. Adults do it. So if she can learn, NOW, to recognise displacementactivity and find her own ways to overcome it, then she will be able to do something, as a child, that a lot of adults never properly learn. That is just an example of the sort of logic you need with a child like this. There is a lot you can do to hlep her. The thing is - she needs you as a helper, not as a tyrant controlling her. As tings currently stand, you're associated with the yucky anxiety feeling and that is what she wants to avoid, that's why she hits you. It's not right. Onoe of the big things with "Explosive Child" is learning to avoid tantrums, to walk away or try to de-escalate. It's not spoiling her for you to try to avoid a tantrum. Nor is it failing her to let someone else take responsibility for punishing her for school-related things. Life has its way of taking vengeance on us all when we break the rules. And if it's life punishing her, then it's NOT YOUR FAULT in her eyes. "The teacher gave you detention for not doing homework? Oh dear, that is unfortunate darling. What can we do to help you avoid this happening again? I'm here to help you. Of course I can't make the detention go away, I am not your teacher. But can you think of a way I can help you get your homework turned in on time next week?" It's not magic, there will be setbacks. But a minor setback has to be preferable to a two hour tantrum. We're here. We're either dealing with the same issues or we've worked our way through this already. Feel free to pick our brains and dump on us as needed. Welcome. Sorry you need us, glad we're here. Marg [/QUOTE]
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