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Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by HighlyStressed, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. HighlyStressed

    HighlyStressed New Member

    Hello to all and Happy new year. My name is Lisa and I have a 16 y/o daughter with alot of issues. A diagnosis of ODD/ADHD is pending and she is in counseling - again. Her sister is 22 and out of the house but she also had some serious things going on.

    I personally have some significant social issues (due to prosopagnosia) which I believe compound things. I do not have Apsergers but most of my social problems are incredibly similar to those who do.

    This is probably much more so with outsiders/strangers looking in than with my actual children but who knows? I would definately welcome some unbiased input on this whole thing.

    My child lies, steals, wets the bed and torments animals. She has 'an answer for everything' and nothing is ever her fault. Apparently, everything wrong in this world is MY fault. She is on a relentless campaign to malaign me and cause me problems. This is presumably her way to justify her desire to move out.

    I have a tendancy to assume truthfulness and goodness in others as well as to just assume that when presented by these incomprehensible behaviors from my own children (who I have always done my best to do right by) that I must be missing something important and therefore not getting it. I think that alot of my problem has stemmed from the fact that I have been literally unable to believe that my own children could be trying so hard to hurt me and cause me hardship. Therefore I have just been trying to understand rather than remedy. For 15 years. Now I think I finally do - at least enough to move forward. Pretty sad, huh?

    I have a tendancy to be extremely logical/reasonable and literal. Unfortunately, teens do not. It is like we are on 2 separate planets.

    I have some really amazing friends I can talk to and a wonderful long-term (not live in) boyfriend. Without them I would have lost it before now.
  2. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Hi and welcome. Wow, sounds like she really is struggling and you must feel so scared for her (and like many of us, love them but wanna ring their pretty necks at the same time???---figuratively speaking by the way).

    I am glad you have some personal support. That is HUGE. You have us now too!!!!

    Has she always been like this or was it a change at some point? Has she always lived with you or has she gone between you and other caregivers??

    How does she do in school??

    There will be many more coming along. Many of us ask questions, not prying...just wanting to connect and see if there is anything we can say....hey yeah, we experienced that too and here is what we went through, or just to say we get it!

    Will talk to you soon, HUGS and HELLOS, Buddy
  3. HighlyStressed

    HighlyStressed New Member

    Buddy. Thank you. You made me tear up. And you all have me.

    I am not concerned anyone is prying. Feel free to ask any questions to gain insight or if I can help NE1 else in any way. . I will answer the best I can.

    I *think* she has always been like this. Her dad and I divorced when she was 4. She has always lived with me except for her first grade year which she spent with my parents in NY. Her sister spent 2 years with them (2-4) while we (personally) built our home and camped in the woods. Molly was let go for a year to get to know her grandparents. In retrospect, this was a HUGE mistake both times.

    She was a c student until 4 years ago when her sister ran away at 17 and now she does A-B.

    She is the most secretive deceptive person I have ever met in my life and it still shocks me. I spent today at her school and at our board of education over her shenanigans and learned she has gotten a secret cell phone. I found this out by accident while reading her texts on the phone I gave her to use.
  4. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Wow- that's an incredible story! Many of us here have shared those feelings and times of stress and torn emotions when it comes to our children/teens so we understand, completely, even if our own specific situations or diagnosis differ. It sounds to me that you have done quite well in trying to hold this all together for a long period of time.

    I wonder if your child that has a pending diagnosis (diagnosis) has had a thorough neuropsychological evaluation done by a PhD level psychologist? That can help, if not, but they can be hard to get sometimes.

    Do you have any help- a spouse, close friend, family member- anyone who really helps and not just judges?- orry- I read again and see that you do so at least that's a small help.

    Welcome, again!
  5. buddy

    buddy New Member

    OH wow, sounds like she has really lost her way. Is there any possibility of a residential placement through the district? Does she routinely have issues at school? If so, she may be eligible for an IEP even if her grades are good.

    Dont beat yourself up for her problems. We all do the best we can at the time that we do things. I have many things I say I would do differently if I knew then what I know now but I always talk to myself or listen to people here to remember I really did NOT know those things and have no reason to feel guilty (a waste of an emotion really, right?) about it. It surely is painful though no matter the cause....when our kids talk and behave disrespectfully toward us. (as we talk here I am valiantly trying to ignore my son's demand to open the internet on his samsung galaxy for good so he can watch whatever he wants on youtube.... "or else you b-ing f-ing n word" Yeah, this is really fun.

    He is calm now and we will talk when he can hold those outbursts in... he wants what he wants when he wants it... I think that is true of many of our difficult child's here!

    There are more folks coming....the board is hopping tonight so hang in there... I know there are several who will be able to really relate to you and both of your daughters!
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    And don't bet on her be the most deceptive kid out there- there are stories here that would make your skin crawl! Not that it makes your situation any less serious....

    You might consider using just the initial "M" instead of her name, just for privacy purposes. You'd be surprised at the people who come across this site, being that it's a public forum.

    When you are feeling a little better and have time, you can poke around the forum about questions and resources (it's the first one listed and I don't recall for sure it's title) to find a list of abbreviations and so forth. Also, when you become comfortable, you might want to do a signature area to 'describe' the members of your family as a reminder to others who read your posts in the future. That's not a requirement- I don't have one right now because my son has been in legal trouble- it's just an option.
  7. mazdamama

    mazdamama New Member

    ((((Highly Stressed)))) Something is definately going on here when a 16 yr old girl is wetting the flag....cannot figure if it is a behavior issue, emotional issue or a medical issue. I was a bed wetter on into my teens but finally realized it was due to the sexual abuse I had as a young child.
    As for the secretive issues, lying, stealing, and nothing her fault...she sounds so much like my late ex daugh in law, the bio mom of the boys I adopted. Her diagnosis was Borderline Personality Disorder. You may want to read up on this diagnosis and see what fits. As for tormenting mom of boys did not do this as far as I know ( she abused the boys and herself) but she as a cutter.
    If they are thinking ADHD and/or ODD I think these docs are way off the mark. This young woman has some very serious problems and needs help desperately....the bed wetting could be her way of calling out. IF she does something that in any way seems to be an attempt to harm herself or any other person call 911. Here in FL they call it a Baker Act....some places call it a Marchment matter what it is called where you are they put her in a crisis stabilation unit for a minimum of 72 hrs. That may be the only way to get her the help she really needs.
  8. HighlyStressed

    HighlyStressed New Member

    She HAS lost her way. I really don't feel guilty or at fault, just dumb for always giving her the benefit of the doubt. She's stolen stuff all her life. Got arrested on her 10th b-day for stealing from the bank (my family freaks whe I refer to her robbing the bank) but my jewelry, tools, purebred pets, etc vanish with no trace. She tells people (cops/family and children services) that I regularly hit her in the face and cuss her and that I am mentally ill, court required to take medications I refuse to take, etc - all stuff easily proven rediculous (except if I cuss her or not). None of it is true but I am so tired of presenting my medication. records to Family and children services. Really, they don't beleive her anymore but she does to different counties and sob-stories them that my friends work at Family and children services here so she has at least 1-2 investigations going on at a time. She told them I fed her baked beans with dead flies in it!

    I have my nails bitten down til they are bloody on most fingers and have pulled so much hair out of my own head I have noticable bald patches.

    She says she will run away again on her 17th b-day. (She ran away last year) She also says she only lies/steals around me because she doesn't like me. (Wtf?) I am ready to let them put her in foster care if she runs away again and I do not know where to draw the line of what is tolerable. She has killed my pets!
  9. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I'm in agreement that there is a serious problem here- and I don't think YOU abused her. However, that doesn't mean someone else might have when she was a young child- thru no fault of your own. Or it could be something else psychiatric going on with her. But she needs more of an evaluation than a typical therapist is going to be able to handle- especially if it's from the school. Is there a children's hospital or child/adolescent psychiatric hospital near you? Don't let that scare you- they can do some great evaluations.

    And try really hard not the guilt trip she's trying to put on you work.
  10. HighlyStressed

    HighlyStressed New Member

    Mazdamama, When her dad and I divorced there were accusations of sexual abuse. Stupid me, I really couldn't beleive it but I did immediately take the girls to councelling and the Dr. and they said it "probably" happened. SHE claims it is a result of my phsychological abuse of her. Her Dr. says it is not a medical issue. Her councellor says it is likely from sex abuse at a young age.

    Worse than just wetting, she balls up her clean clothes and lays on them getting them icky too. She refuses to admit to it even when the sheets are soaked. She cuts plastic sheets to ribbons with a razor. She has never tried to ahrm herself. I worry she will harm me. She has harmed my pets,

    Her dad was diagnosed antisocial personality disorder but I think that's a catch all for a bunch of stuff. I think the ODD is right on. I question the ADHD tho. She says she thinks she is and has looked it up on line. She is confrontational, adversarial, defiant and mean. To me. She says she is a perfect lady to others because she will convince them I am mentally ill. (Her BIG thing.)

    I am going to look up the Marchment act. Thank you.
  11. HighlyStressed

    HighlyStressed New Member

    This isn't thru the school. It is through a county subsidized mental health agency. There are places within a days drive but money is an issue. No insurance. Job hunting. She is on medicaid tho.
  12. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Then she needs a very thorough evaluation for PTSD, trauma, etc- you need to get her to a children's treatment center and tell them there is reason to think this could have happened and tell them what she's doing- this could be it.

    She's not knowing who to blame- she's blaming the person who is there. Try hard to let it roll and not hurt but not give into it. Once it becomes know to the professionals that there was likely a sexual abuse, the tables should turn. Just make sure you are getting to qualified professionals- medicaid can get her a lot of services that private insurance can't- if you can't get to anyone "higher" easily, call a domestic violence shelter and tell them you have just realized that you think this really could have happened. Were those accusations ever documented with DSS or the courts or anywhere- a doctor- anyone? (I'm only asking because it will help give credibility to what you're telling them now since it sounds like they've been running you thru the wringer.)

    Another thing- if anything hitting crisis-mode happens that could possibly cause danger to herself or to you or anyone else, you can call for an ambulance to take her to a psychiatric hospital. I know that sounds horrible too but many of us have had to do that. In this state, even "deterioartion of functioning" qualifies a parent to do this and for emergency medical services to transport her and get her to a safe hospital. Your daughter clearly has deterioration of functioning. I don't know if that would qualify for transport in your state or not.
  13. buddy

    buddy New Member

    OK that is a whole new level.... I thought this at first but her early history didn't really match since you said she was with you for the first 4 years. Were you and her dad happy during that time or was she a premie or any other pain or health issues with her early on (I am talking birth to 3 ...some say 5...years old)

    Here is a site you may want to check out....

    RadKid.Org: Reactive Attachment Disorder & Detachment Issues

    Your daughter may not be bonded to you. It happens for many reasons. Most commonly people think of it with adoption and orphanages. They now know that some people are born that way... pregnancy issues, early illnesses that cause separation or pain, many innocent things that just happen and interfere with bonding. Including colic, (or whatever causes colic), painful reflux that no one can help the baby feel better, sensory issues that no one knew about so the child suffered, etc.... Many many issues.

    Has she ever set fires? Is she obsessed with blood and gore? she kills pets, steals, tells crazy lies, makes false abuse reports, etc... these are symptoms of someone who has not connected with other people well. she does not feel for others. Some of these kids actually do end up having serious life long antisocial lives so it would be very very important to have the appropriate therapy (and it takes a specialist to work with this) ...many therapists will say they get this but they dont. They can even do more damage (which sounds like has already happened as people bought into her stuff and pulled you apart more...that is what happens when you have a mental health person who buys into these kids when they manipulate so much).

    here are other sites you may want to check out....

    Reactive attachment disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    My son has some attachment issues, he is not as far on the spectrum of this as it sounds like your daughter is but we knew early and got help thank heaven. He still will tell crazy lies and accuse me of things. He doesn't hurt our pets now but when very young he did misunderstand our cat's facial expressions and put him in a drawer because he hurt his feelings...sigh. (he is also brain injured and autistic so many things played into that)

    There are others here who have had their kids hurt or kill pets. YOU ARE NOT ALONE in this!!!
  14. HighlyStressed

    HighlyStressed New Member

    Wow, thank you all. So much input. To try to answer questions asked - does not like blood/gore. Has played with fire/matches but seems to have outgrown that. I don't think she is attached to me at all. I have concern that she has no empathy for other people or animals at all. I am sure she is blaming me for being the person around to be blamed but I also think it could be a test if I love her enough to stick with her or something. I kicked her dad out and divorced him. Remarried 2 years later and had to file for divorce again because I found out the second husband 'liked' tunderage girls. He was caught peeping on the older daughter. But the younger one loved him and he was dad. As of this past year she has decided she hates him, too. He's been gone since 04.
  15. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Not all insecure attachment starts early.
    Kids can become less attached, based on experiences.
    We started losing ours when school started - nothing we did or said could solve the problems at school, so he "had to look after himself"...
  16. HighlyStressed

    HighlyStressed New Member

    Her dad and I were not happy. He was an alcoholic. Not a premie but c-section due to preeclampsia. Only like a week before my due date. Fortunately, as a rule the DSS workers refer us to mental health who see thru her manipulations.

    And Buddy - have you ever heard of prosopagnosia? The reason I ask is because it is not uncommon for autistic/AS kids to have it and it can compound their problems but isdn't usually recognized thru the autism. It is either congenital (mine) or aquired thru head trauma. KNOWING about i is HUGE. It changed my life when I found out at age 44. It explained SO much.
  17. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    This played a HUGE part in my son's problems- and yes, I have caught the brunt of his behavior. As you already know, sticking by them and showing a continuous, lasting love doesn't solve the problem. The more you say, the more it's so clear she has a lot of things to work thru and it amazes me that someone in dss or mental health hasn't gotten her and you to much higher qualified people and intensive services already.
  18. buddy

    buddy New Member

    She was pretty young when step dad was there, could she have been molested (sorry I know this is a sensitive question) and she doesn't remember but it affected her? Have you ever wondered that? I am so sorry for you. You have been through so much.

    It must really be something to feel like your daughter is not attached at all. My son is not attached as a birth child would be. He is not unattached but I do know that sometimes I feel very sad that he didn't ever get to feel that total love i feel for him.

    I have heard of prosopagnosia. do you think she has this at all? Do you think she has Autism? If she does she may not be able to take on another's perspective. it sounds like that would not account for everything of course, but if you feel it is part of it, that could really complicate things (it sure does for us!)

    Keep venting and feel free to throw out ideas or questions. I will be anxious to hear what you are going to do to work on this with her now... you sound like a really strong mom.
  19. mazdamama

    mazdamama New Member

    The fact that she is on medicaid is a good fact. Part of the problem I had getting my son placed is because he was not on medicaid. I did have a feeling childhood sexual abuse was involved somewhere. You mention that your ex is anti-social personality. That may also be a factor in this...genetics. Bio mom of my boys was adopted. When we found her bio mom we found that her bio dad and his entire family had mental health issues. Just as our children inherit the color of our eyes, facial features etc...they inherit mental health issues.

    My son Daniel was first Baker Acted in Feb 2011 for holding a butcher knife to his stomach and threatening to push it in if I did not do what he wanted me to (he was 10 then). I kept my cool and told him he woul not die if he did that because we are olny 2 miles from the hospital where they would operate to fix whatever he hurt inside him and he would have to have needles in his arms. He put the knife down quickly and I locked all the sharp knives away and called his Dr. He was Baker Acted. In March 2011 he got mad at me, pushed me to the floor and tried to choke me with his autistic brother yelling in the background "don't kill our Mommy". Again...Baker Act. doctors were changed due to insurance and this new dr put him on Haldol......things got worse. Daniel wound up hearing voices in his head telling him to do things. He wound up killing and older small dog that the neighbors had given us by lying on top of the dog intil it stopped moving (I was told he rolled over on it in his sleep and gave him the benefit of the doubt). He bought a puppy without my permission but I fell in love with her.. I left my now 11 yr old and my 10 yr home for just a few minutes only to come home and find that he had hung her by her collar on the doorknob. She lived for a few hours while I tried to find an open vet within distance on a Sun aft. Again he was Baker Acted and I demanded he be taken off Haldol. With the local Children's Advocacy Center here working with both programs he is in we managed Occupational Therapist (OT) get him to a place where he can find himself and get rid of his anger safely.

    Your daughter is angry and you are the closest person she can attack.
  20. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I do want to make sure it's clear, since this is a public forum, that I still think we parents do need to love our kids and stick by them as much as possible, without enabling (wherever that line is)- I just have become convinced that kids like ours who have varying types of serious issue might be testing that love and needing constant reassurance of it, that showing unconditional love alone will not ever solve all these problems. We know that- but they don't get it.