Nice. Cigarette tobacco out of a pipe?

[crazymama30]

So over the summer we caught difficult child sneaking out and he admitted to smoking pot. Got a drug test, and he was clean. Really confused us, but we did not know what to think.

Saturday he came home with a pipe, said he ran into D on a bike ride and D gave it to him and told him to take it home so he would not get into trouble. We talked about how much trouble difficult child would get into if he was caught with it, and I threw it away. It looked like he had been smoking cigarette tobacco out of it. Told psychiatrist, called the wrap services people and therapist. difficult child saw psychiatrist yesterday, asked him if he had been smoking and he said yes but he quit. A few minutes later he pulls a film container out of his pocket and says he "found" it at school. It was full of tobacco that had been taken out of cigarettes. psychiatrist and I went over how he should have given it to the school and how much trouble he would get into if he got caught with that.

Last night he and his sister saw their dad, first time in about a month as he has been in jail. I figured I would see some back lash from that. easy child did not sleep much last night, and has been asleep since about 5pm tonight or so, and difficult child? Well, he got written up at school, then called me crying, said he did not feel well and had thrown up. I think it was anxiety from the night before, but either way he needed to come home so I picked him up. He saw therapist today. After we got home he wanted to have his friend come over and I said no, you came home from school no friend. He said he was going out on the trampoline. Just struck me as odd, and I went out to check. He was not on the trampoline, he was behind the shed smoking cigarette tobacco out of a pipe like device!!

I think what concerns me the most? Is that he is trying to self medicate. That is so so dangerous for him, and it scares the tar out of me. So I will call psychiatrist tomorrow, I am not sure what to do about it. I am going to quit smoking myself, that will at least limit his access, but what else to do? We raised his abilify yesterday, I think it will take a few more days to see any result from that. I am just concerned as this does not bode well for the future. I do not want my son to follow in his dad's footsteps.

 

[Liahona]

Why go to the trouble of taking it out and putting it in a pipe? Do they have to see their dad? Are they court ordered or did they want to? Sorry I don't have good suggestions. Good luck quitting.

 

[crazymama30]

I have no ideas as to why they go to the trouble to put the tobacco in a pipe. I would think it would be easier to smoke the cigarettes.


S2BX was granted at least 3 to 5 hrs of supervised parenting time per the restraining order, but they want to see him. He had not even called them so far tonight and things are so much calmer.


When I saw difficult child smoking the weird thing was that he looked high. it was weird.

 

[Liahona]

husband just pointed out to me that difficult child is by-passing the cigarette filter so its more potent. Also, the cigarette tobacco is stronger than the pipe tobacco. Does he go through withdrawals with out it?

 

[flutterby]

I'll ask difficult child 2 about this if I can track him down. But what Liahona said makes sense. Have you ever gone a while - as in, days - without a cigarette then had one? It makes you light-headed and kinda loopy at first. Same thing if you smoke an unfiltered and you're not used to it.

 

[crazymama30]

You two both have very good points as to why he looked high, he very well could have been. I just don't know what to do about it, or if there is anything I can do. I think all I can do is watch him and have no cigarettes or lighters around. I need to search his room and see what turns up there.

 

[keista]

First, do you know for sure that the tobacco was removed from cigarettes? Loose tobacco is still sold everywhere and is cheaper than pre-formed cigs. My friend's husband used to roll his own cigs, and I dabbled in theat when I was in college to save some $$.

Second, are you 100% sure it's plain tobacco? Most privately owned and operated convenience stores sell "legal pot" It goes by many names and comes in many flavors and is sold in colorful packets. (generally 2x2 inch size) They are a mix of herbs and other innocuous ingredients and sold as "incense". Ppl smoke it and apparently the high lasts for about a 1/2 hour without side effects like munchies and paranoia. However, they forget that one undesirable side effect may be death.

 

[Zardo]

Suspicious. I would say - having been through this myself - that he is trying to get good at the pipe because that is what kids use to smoke weed and he is trying to "get good at it". I know it sounds crazy - but you know how the mind works at this stage. And when he tells you things or admits to things, rest assured, it's not the whole truth - just the part of the truth that he thinks you can live with. We are currently in a good place after fighting the pot and tabacco battle with our teen for about a year and a half. The fact that you already caught him with pot once and now he is doing this - he is definately being influenced by that crowd and wanting acceptance. The clean test after admitting could be one of two things. Most likely, he is just getting started and maybe didn't do enough for a postive test or (scarier) could have been using K2 which is synthetic pot easily purshased for cheap over the internet, especially by kids whose parents are testing them because it doesn't not show up on a THC test. This is a WAY more dangerous substance. I would think he is either "practicing" or thinking that maybe he could still be accepted if he using tabacco in the pipe - but he needs to make sure he is experienced so that he looks "cool". My son's "practicing" and need to appear experienced took him down a very dark road to where he ended up spending 3 months in Wilderness becauase we could not reach him and get him to stop. Duriong this time, his life was spiraling out of control - failing at school - uncontrollable anger at home - got caught and arrested, etc, etc. All of the things you read about happenned - new friends, dropped all productive activities, school failure, anger, etc. One of the early warning signs was finding tobacco products around - cigarettes, dip, etc. Keep your eye on things and see how it goes. The bad news is that if this is what he is doing, it is VERY hard to intervene. In our public high school "everyone" does it. The percentages that they have out there that are like 30% are WAY off, just ask my son. The statistics have not caught up with today's young teens. The kids use cigarettes, chewing tabacco, vodka and pot - at or around school and school events. When we saw signs (similar to what you are seeing), we tried EVERYTHING - talking to him, taking privledges away, grounding, working with the school -nothing worked. We never gave up - had him in counseling the whole time - but it took Wilderness and complete removal from his peer setting for him to see what he was doing to himself. Even now, with him at a private school and attending aftercare programs, we are confident for now that he is in a good place, but cautiously optomistic. What I have learned is that it is hard to "stop" them from making bad choices, weather it's tobacco or pot, but you can lay down the rules in your home and react when you discover him breaking the rules. Our son has been told that if he goes down the same road, he will be going to a therapeutic boarding school for a year. Our message is "we will not let your ruin your life, period". We also will not live with a substance abusing verbally abusive teen in our home. While we fought the battle, his home behavior crossed so many lines, constance smoking in the house after we went to bed, refusing any and every home role, screaming and swearing as us and putting holes in the walls. I blame all of this on the pot - his dependance on it and the absolute FREAK OUT when we tried to stop him. Now that the pot is gone, things come up, but his reactions are more in the range of a normal teen,which we can work with. He has seen that we mean business and will not back down.

Be firm, watch carefully, set limits, don't lose your cool and DON"T BACK DOWN. Don't go crazy trying to stop him from making bad choices, because you can't - just react and be firm when he makes mistakes. Good luck.

 

[MuM_of_OCD_kiddo]

Could it be that it is a "if I can't have dope, I'm gonna pretend I have some" thing why he is smoking it out of a pipe? At 13 they tend to be still very immature and "pretend to be cool" can be a serious problem. all by itself...

Or - if you think he was high - perhaps he cut something into the tobacco that wouldn't burn by itself, using the tobacco like an "accelerant"?

One way or the other, I'd think another drug test would be adviseable.

 

[crazymama30]

I am sure they were cigarettes, the filters were just torn off and I don't think there was anything else in it. I do think he could be practicing or trying to be cool, and that is what really concerns me.

I never did catch him with pot, I have only caught him with pipes twice, both times they appeared to have cigarette tobacco in them and the one time I am sure it did, and the third time was when he got caught sneaking out and admitted to smoking pot with his friends. At that time S2BX was in the house and had a medical card, and some of his came up missing. I don't know if difficult child smoked it or if the friend did. The friend spooks me, difficult child got in so much trouble with him in elementary, and then the friend disappeared for 2 years. I think he was either removed from the home because his mom's ex was abusive or was sent to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or something. The kid mentioned something about military school, but there is no way they could afford that unless it was something that was paid for by insurance.

We will see what happens, but I am thinking this could be a rough year.

 

[Liahona]

Have you thought of posting on the Teens and Substance Abuse forum? They might have more ideas of what you could do. Good luck.

 

[Zardo]

First - I want to say that I am sorry you're going through this and I am also sorry if my previous response was a bit strong. I only tell you these things because walked in your shoes. I do think the real issue is that he is exploring substance use - be it tobacco or pot. the one time addmitted pot use and missing pot in the house along with the tobacco in pipes are all sure signs of a teen who is headed down the road of use. Just try not to fall for the lies and excuses (which I did for a long time) - be vigilant, draw the line and HOLD IT. He will probably still push it - I know many people fighting this battle today. For whatever reason, this is a HUGE issue for today's young teens. One of the best things that happenned to us (believe it or not) was that our son got arrested. When that happenned - it was no longer us just being too strict. Our message became, we told you tihis would happen - we tried to help you - you didn't believe us - are you ready to work with us now? It was still a struggle for a bit, but Wilderness brought him through it. I don't think it will be smooth sailing from here on out - but we will no longer go crazy trying to stop him from making mistakes. We have put supports in place and it's up to him. If he falls again, our lines are drawn and he knows what the result will be.

GOOD LUCK - STAY STRONG - DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE WARNING SIGNS

 

[crazymama30]

Zardo.....you just voiced my concern exactly.......that he is playing with substance abuse. Thatis my concern...and all the males on both sides of the family have had substance abuse issues so I wonder if he is genetically predisposed?

 

[klmno]

My son did this. The reason you are seeing loose tobacco is that the kids can take cig butts from ashtrays, streets, etc and "squeeze" the tobacco out of it for free and without having to try to buy it illegally. Yes, it can lead to other substances and usually does. They have learned by that point that people smoke pot out of pipes or cans made into pipes. They start out with tobacco. Based on my experience with my son, you have every reason to be concerned. But then, I seem to have the "extreme" kid.

 

[ready2run]

addiction does tend to run in families.
as for the tobacco it could just be that he is picking up butts and doesn't want to use the germy yucky filter and doesn't know how to role it back into a smoke so he just uses a pipe. my main concern would be that he knows how to make a pipe-like device. that tells me someone showed him how to do that and usually the only people who know how to do that are smoking pot or worse.

 

[pepperidge]

Crazymama

Does your school have in school counseling for kids that are at risk of substance abuse--some schools in your area have grants I believe and hire counselors to meet with groups of kids on a weekly basis for substance abuse prevention. That might be worth checking into.

I dont know what you do, other than monitor him carefully, do drug use testing randomly, and start thinking of a plan if drug use surfaces. You would think that the example of his dad would scare him, but maybe not. But I would be knocking on the door of the county and on the school for all the substance abuse prevention training you can get.

I would also start asking around if there are any sleepaway type wilderness programs that you might send him to next summer that might be a good influence that you might get a scholarship to.

Sorry not to have better ideas.

 

[susiestar]

Others all have great ideas. Zardo mentioned that they tried to deny the signs for a long time. Lots of people do this, I think it is human nature.

Please, regardless of what difficult child says, what others say, if your instincts scream that it is a real problem, a big problem, then follow them. You are likely to encounter at least some people who tell you this is just too early to really jump on it, to wait and see, even that all kids do it and it is normal/no big deal. Stick to your guns and do all you can.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Please, regardless of what difficult child says, what others say, if your instincts scream that it is a real problem, a big problem, then follow them. You are likely to encounter at least some people who tell you this is just too early to really jump on it, to wait and see, even that all kids do it and it is normal/no big deal. Stick to your guns and do all you can

Ditto.
Your gut will be more accurate than the experts, most of the time - even if you don't know the reasons yet.

 

[klmno]

Your gut will be more accurate than the experts, most of the time - even if you don't know the reasons yet.

We need a "Like" button for that statement!!

 

[crazymama30]

Susy, thank you. I might have known that, but I needed to hear it. We have a team meeting on Tuesday, and this will definately be brought up. I have had a hard time getting a time set up to meet with difficult child's skill builder, it is so hard right now as I am trying to work and have to take mom to PT for her knee, and make sure the kids get places too. I have been starting to use the ride center to get the kids places, they are old enough that they can ride in a cab to an appointment. I guess my problem is that there are tons of drug and alcohol rehab places, what do we do for prevention or early intervention? There are no programs for that, or at least that I know of. I will bring it up at the team meeting, and I would think the county mental health people there would know. I can just see him heading down a path that will take him no where.