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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 314505" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I'm sorry I'm so short of time at the moment becaue I can see so much of our situation in your descriptions. I'll try to be brief.</p><p></p><p>First, the conflict with your wife - he is a teen. she is acting in the beleif that he just needs a firmer hand and harder pushing. If this is Asperger's, then that is almost certainly why you're seeing manifestations of ODD. While that pushing your wife wants will work wonders with a lot of kids, it is often exactly wrong for Aspies 9and some others) because it is directly challenging the kid's own NEEDS to have some sense of control in his life, somewhere.</p><p></p><p>We often think we, the adults, need to be the ones in control. And we can be, but with these kids the sooner they learn appropriate, adult-like self-control, the better. They are wired differently and need to be handled a different way. The more you push them, the worse it gets. It's like the grass bending in the storm and surviving, while the strong willow tree trying to stand stiff and solid in the teeth of the gale will eventually break and fall.</p><p></p><p>Plus he's a teen. That makes it worse.</p><p></p><p>The obsessions - he needs them. Don't try to change them or dcontrol them. Instead, he needs a therapist to work with him to help him learn appropaite social skills. It's OK to have obsessions, even extreme obsessions. But he needs to learn that not everyone shares the same obsessions, nor to the same degree. He needs to learn that he is different but that's OK. And it's not his fault, or a flaw, to be different. However, it DOdeS mean he needs to learn to adapt, since he is the one who differs from the majority, not the other way around.</p><p></p><p>The obsessions can be useful, as can the degree of intense focus he is capable of. Help him learn to use it, help him learn how to use his own desperate need to be in control, to learn to manage his own needs and responsibilities.</p><p></p><p>Do not expect him to be age-equivalent socially. He will take longer to get to where he should be. For example, difficult child 1 had to have his baby sister tie his shoes for him. For years, even into high school, we got him velcro-fastening shoes instead of lace-ups. In so many other ways he seemed clueless and helpless, even into early adulthood. And yet - he is now married (at 25) and in the last year (1st anniversary coming up) he has made amazing progress. His wife does a lot to organise him but he is also a wonderful support to her in her anxiety issues and her panic attacks. Having another person to look after has really helped him make that last great leap in maturity.</p><p></p><p>Then there's difficult child 3. A work in progress. Despite some great development and amazing efforts all round, we still have problems. A lot of them are due to the clashes between him (and his stubborn insistence on always being right plus he sees himself as equal to anybody, including his parents, so he will TELL us how to behave in the same way we try to tell him) and his father, who still when tired and stressd falls back on the strict "I am the father" parenting style indoctrinated into him. Intellectually husband knows this is not only ineffective but sends progress backwards; but when tired, he just falls back into old habits. We all do. But it often means that their relationship is rocky.</p><p></p><p>It's good you've joinedus here. We can give instant help now plus provide ongoing support for you and your wife. And your son.</p><p></p><p>You're not crazy, any of you. And Heater is right, this is not a psychiatric disorder (which could make your wife feeel better). It is neurological. Certain parts of your son's brain wiring are very different. It causes problems in some areas, notably the "social sense" is damaged or missing. However, these kids still feel emotion every bit as much as the rest of us, often more. But they don't always show emotions in ways we would normally recognise.</p><p></p><p>Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids have their difficulties but they also have some wonderful qualities. They are intensely loyal. Law-abiding (to laws as they understand them). Often able to concentrate in minute detail and for considerable time on the things they really enjoy. This means that potentially, they can be valuable workers to the right employer. There are other issues too.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 is into computers and computer games big-time. Always has been, since infancy. So I explained about his autism to him using computers as an analogy. I told him that if we print off a text document that hs been put together in an attractive, tidy font with al lthe paragraphs done as we want them, text bolded or italixised as we want it, al lthe words where we want them, we can have two documents side by side looknig identical. ONly one has been put together on a Mac while the other was done on a easy child. The documents can be made to look identical. However, the software and actual programming language needed to tell the computers how to do this, is vastly different and often incompatible, Mac to easy child and vice versa.</p><p></p><p>And some people have Mac brains, others have easy child brains. The important thing is to identify which YOU are, and make sure you get the right sort of programming (ie education) assistance.</p><p></p><p>SOme suggestions which will come your way from others too:</p><p></p><p>1) Get your hands on "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Whatever the diagnosis of your son, this book will help you both learn how to cope. Your wife especially needs to read it so she can find out how to get into his head. You need to begin where he is, not try to drag him to where you are. He is the one with the neurological disability, plus he is the kid. We do this with babies - we listen to their cries and respond accordingly. We feed the hungry baby. We put the tired baby to bed. We change the wet nappies. And so on. A baby isn't good at communicating, we have to learn to listen to the baby. A Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid still needs the same level of intense listening, because even if they're highly verbal, they can't always explain why they are so frustrated because identifying their emotions is a part of social sense. They feel the emotions, but can't always understand them.</p><p></p><p>2) Try to work towrds a neuropsychologist assessment. It needs to be sufficiently detailed so you can get useful information from the suub-scores. There may be other assessments needed (such as speech pathology) which need to be similarly detailed. Don't look for the IQ score, thay single number is not going to be very useful and in Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) is generally an understimate. Instead, look for the multiple smaller subscores, look for the diffierences between the high score areas and the low score areas. Lookat the categories, then use the child's high skill areas to help develop the more challenging parts of his brain. These kids generally want to fit in, they want to be seen as normal although to a certian extent they will always feel different. But they are generally very smarty, at least in some areas. Use that smarts (or help them learn to use it themselves) to help them learn how to face their difficulties and get stuck in. Avoidance is bad, and a bad habit to allow to develop. These kids can be incredibly stubborn - teach him to use his stubbornness to get the job done.</p><p></p><p>3) To get a better, but informal, idea of what is wrong, go to <a href="http://www.childbrain.com" target="_blank">www.childbrain.com</a> and look for their Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire. YOu can't use it to formally diagnose but do the test, if you're not sure of a question ten click on it and read the more detailed info on how to accurately answer it. When you're don, print it out (even if he scores as normal - I'm betting he won't) then keep a copy. Take a copy to the specialist appointment and use it as leverge to get help. It will at least indicate, all together in a couple of pages, the sort of problems that are concerning you.</p><p></p><p>Now put all this together. Try to get your wife to read the posts here too. Even if you think your relationship is perfect and your communication totally mind-to-mind matching, you may be surprised at just how much this site can improve what already may seem perfect. And if it's not perfect - this can help even more.</p><p></p><p>My husband began lurknig here, reading what I posgted. Even though these were things we talked to one anoter about, somehow reading it was like taking a dose of highly distilled medicine. Very powerful, very effective. husband would come home and say, "I read your post today about that woman's kid. Now I tihnk I understand what you were saying about difficult child 3, only I wasn't getting the info all at once so it didn't make as much sense to me. I think I get it now."</p><p>Sometimes he would say, "I don't agree with what you said in that thread today. Why did you say that?" and it would get us talking about the reasons. Sometimes I had been right; sometimes I had been wrong. But it got us talking, and even though we have always been a great team, it has been immensely more effective now.</p><p></p><p>He now has his own sig, logs on in his own name and sometimes posts.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, welcome to the site. I'll try to check in, it's been purgatory here for the last few weeks and there's more to come. But I'll try to check in to see how you're going. husband will be in as well.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 314505, member: 1991"] I'm sorry I'm so short of time at the moment becaue I can see so much of our situation in your descriptions. I'll try to be brief. First, the conflict with your wife - he is a teen. she is acting in the beleif that he just needs a firmer hand and harder pushing. If this is Asperger's, then that is almost certainly why you're seeing manifestations of ODD. While that pushing your wife wants will work wonders with a lot of kids, it is often exactly wrong for Aspies 9and some others) because it is directly challenging the kid's own NEEDS to have some sense of control in his life, somewhere. We often think we, the adults, need to be the ones in control. And we can be, but with these kids the sooner they learn appropriate, adult-like self-control, the better. They are wired differently and need to be handled a different way. The more you push them, the worse it gets. It's like the grass bending in the storm and surviving, while the strong willow tree trying to stand stiff and solid in the teeth of the gale will eventually break and fall. Plus he's a teen. That makes it worse. The obsessions - he needs them. Don't try to change them or dcontrol them. Instead, he needs a therapist to work with him to help him learn appropaite social skills. It's OK to have obsessions, even extreme obsessions. But he needs to learn that not everyone shares the same obsessions, nor to the same degree. He needs to learn that he is different but that's OK. And it's not his fault, or a flaw, to be different. However, it DOdeS mean he needs to learn to adapt, since he is the one who differs from the majority, not the other way around. The obsessions can be useful, as can the degree of intense focus he is capable of. Help him learn to use it, help him learn how to use his own desperate need to be in control, to learn to manage his own needs and responsibilities. Do not expect him to be age-equivalent socially. He will take longer to get to where he should be. For example, difficult child 1 had to have his baby sister tie his shoes for him. For years, even into high school, we got him velcro-fastening shoes instead of lace-ups. In so many other ways he seemed clueless and helpless, even into early adulthood. And yet - he is now married (at 25) and in the last year (1st anniversary coming up) he has made amazing progress. His wife does a lot to organise him but he is also a wonderful support to her in her anxiety issues and her panic attacks. Having another person to look after has really helped him make that last great leap in maturity. Then there's difficult child 3. A work in progress. Despite some great development and amazing efforts all round, we still have problems. A lot of them are due to the clashes between him (and his stubborn insistence on always being right plus he sees himself as equal to anybody, including his parents, so he will TELL us how to behave in the same way we try to tell him) and his father, who still when tired and stressd falls back on the strict "I am the father" parenting style indoctrinated into him. Intellectually husband knows this is not only ineffective but sends progress backwards; but when tired, he just falls back into old habits. We all do. But it often means that their relationship is rocky. It's good you've joinedus here. We can give instant help now plus provide ongoing support for you and your wife. And your son. You're not crazy, any of you. And Heater is right, this is not a psychiatric disorder (which could make your wife feeel better). It is neurological. Certain parts of your son's brain wiring are very different. It causes problems in some areas, notably the "social sense" is damaged or missing. However, these kids still feel emotion every bit as much as the rest of us, often more. But they don't always show emotions in ways we would normally recognise. Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids have their difficulties but they also have some wonderful qualities. They are intensely loyal. Law-abiding (to laws as they understand them). Often able to concentrate in minute detail and for considerable time on the things they really enjoy. This means that potentially, they can be valuable workers to the right employer. There are other issues too. difficult child 3 is into computers and computer games big-time. Always has been, since infancy. So I explained about his autism to him using computers as an analogy. I told him that if we print off a text document that hs been put together in an attractive, tidy font with al lthe paragraphs done as we want them, text bolded or italixised as we want it, al lthe words where we want them, we can have two documents side by side looknig identical. ONly one has been put together on a Mac while the other was done on a easy child. The documents can be made to look identical. However, the software and actual programming language needed to tell the computers how to do this, is vastly different and often incompatible, Mac to easy child and vice versa. And some people have Mac brains, others have easy child brains. The important thing is to identify which YOU are, and make sure you get the right sort of programming (ie education) assistance. SOme suggestions which will come your way from others too: 1) Get your hands on "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Whatever the diagnosis of your son, this book will help you both learn how to cope. Your wife especially needs to read it so she can find out how to get into his head. You need to begin where he is, not try to drag him to where you are. He is the one with the neurological disability, plus he is the kid. We do this with babies - we listen to their cries and respond accordingly. We feed the hungry baby. We put the tired baby to bed. We change the wet nappies. And so on. A baby isn't good at communicating, we have to learn to listen to the baby. A Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid still needs the same level of intense listening, because even if they're highly verbal, they can't always explain why they are so frustrated because identifying their emotions is a part of social sense. They feel the emotions, but can't always understand them. 2) Try to work towrds a neuropsychologist assessment. It needs to be sufficiently detailed so you can get useful information from the suub-scores. There may be other assessments needed (such as speech pathology) which need to be similarly detailed. Don't look for the IQ score, thay single number is not going to be very useful and in Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) is generally an understimate. Instead, look for the multiple smaller subscores, look for the diffierences between the high score areas and the low score areas. Lookat the categories, then use the child's high skill areas to help develop the more challenging parts of his brain. These kids generally want to fit in, they want to be seen as normal although to a certian extent they will always feel different. But they are generally very smarty, at least in some areas. Use that smarts (or help them learn to use it themselves) to help them learn how to face their difficulties and get stuck in. Avoidance is bad, and a bad habit to allow to develop. These kids can be incredibly stubborn - teach him to use his stubbornness to get the job done. 3) To get a better, but informal, idea of what is wrong, go to [url]www.childbrain.com[/url] and look for their Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire. YOu can't use it to formally diagnose but do the test, if you're not sure of a question ten click on it and read the more detailed info on how to accurately answer it. When you're don, print it out (even if he scores as normal - I'm betting he won't) then keep a copy. Take a copy to the specialist appointment and use it as leverge to get help. It will at least indicate, all together in a couple of pages, the sort of problems that are concerning you. Now put all this together. Try to get your wife to read the posts here too. Even if you think your relationship is perfect and your communication totally mind-to-mind matching, you may be surprised at just how much this site can improve what already may seem perfect. And if it's not perfect - this can help even more. My husband began lurknig here, reading what I posgted. Even though these were things we talked to one anoter about, somehow reading it was like taking a dose of highly distilled medicine. Very powerful, very effective. husband would come home and say, "I read your post today about that woman's kid. Now I tihnk I understand what you were saying about difficult child 3, only I wasn't getting the info all at once so it didn't make as much sense to me. I think I get it now." Sometimes he would say, "I don't agree with what you said in that thread today. Why did you say that?" and it would get us talking about the reasons. Sometimes I had been right; sometimes I had been wrong. But it got us talking, and even though we have always been a great team, it has been immensely more effective now. He now has his own sig, logs on in his own name and sometimes posts. Anyway, welcome to the site. I'll try to check in, it's been purgatory here for the last few weeks and there's more to come. But I'll try to check in to see how you're going. husband will be in as well. Marg [/QUOTE]
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