Now I'm re-evaluating....

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
I am so sorry, Klmno.
I think you are right to make a long-term plan instead of sending difficult child to the ER. Especially since he has calmed down and is sleeping now.
When my son pulled that sort of thing, the main thing was to stay calm and not back down. I could not act afraid, nor could I act aggressive. It had to be calm and steady. You did well.
I am reading this thread with-interest, since I live in VA and vaguely remember the law being changed.
I'm sending strength.
 

klmno

Active Member
Witz- it might come to that- leaving without him in the psychiatric hospital, but so far, the psychiatric hospital has not been any problem. They have never sent him away without admittance. We had to have him transported to a different one in the spring, but that was me trying to do something a little slyly and the PO ruining that for me- but the psychiatric hospital did arrange the transport.

Anyway, it is the getting difficult child there that is the problem. When he went in the spring, he was more on the suicidal end, in my humble opinion, at that very moment. Now, I think he had been cycling a lot but I "talked him into" going by telling him he needed a medication change, I was seriously concerned about his health, and if he didn't go, I'd have to call someone to physically take him. He bought that, but I had already tried to find a way to have cops, ambulance, anyone come and physically take him and they said that they would not under those circumstances. I was bluffing difficult child.

Now, as far as getting him placed out of home, whether it is foster home or Residential Treatment Center (RTC), that is one of the things I am exploring. The process varies from state to state and in this state, it has to go through the CSA procedures. There are a few ways to make that happen. One is a court order- for whatever reason that I don't understand, the judge did not order that before.

At this point, it seems preferable that the school refer him instead of the judge ordering him. This is the best option, from what I can tell. The school refers him (the family) for CSA funded services, but they alone don't determine what that service or placement would be. That just gets the ball rolling to get the FAPT (rep from all agencies, including school, Department of Juvenile Justice, mental health, and parent) together to meet, share info, then cumulatively (supposedly) decide on a plan to restore order and full functioning of the difficult child and family. (If it's court ordered, the parent does not have to agree- the other team members make the decision.) Services could cover anything- temporary out of home placement, an Residential Treatment Center (RTC), keeping kid at home but helping with finances or transportation, in home therapy, etc.

Since difficult child is on probation, I have no doubt that the courts will have to be involved. But with the personalities involved, I think it is preferable for me to propose a solution, even if this is it. Iwant to avoid the court order so I stay a part of the decision making process.

I'm probably going to email the principal and ask her what she thinks about this- we have been getting along pretty well and she needs to know that I'm not just sitting here ignoring difficult child's inability to get to school anyway. Also, I'm going to ask her if she has any other suggestions or knows of any options.

She used to work at the state Department of Juvenile Justice detention center in the education dept., so she might have some other idea. I saw a report put out by Department of Juvenile Justice saying they prefer that a kid in the system, but not yet incarcerated, be able to use csa funding to prevent the kid from continuing in a situation that leads him/her to be incarcerated. Clearly, this is where my son is. The judge is on the local advisory team for this.

What makes it most difficult is that the reps and processes, procedures and determination for approval, are all different for each jurisdiction in the state. The psychiatric hospital (there are 2 for kids and I'm referring to both here) are in neighborhing jurisdictions, not ours. So, they can recommend something, but they can't really require it or refer it to the board because they aren't in this jurisdiction. We explored that the first time difficult child was in the psychiatric hospital.

I don't think I'll have too much trouble getting therapist and psychiatrist to back me up, but they can't refer this either because if it is a mental health referral, it has to be a provider designated by this team, which goes right back to that *** clinic.

Please understand, if it were me making 1 or 2 trips to the clinic to get this done it would be one thing. We're talking starting at square one though before they would refer difficult child. The guy from state dept of mental health told me that- they would have to evaluation difficult child to see if they think he's BiPolar (BP). Then, they have to treat him to see if they can get him stable. Then if that fails, they might refer him, unless they determine that it failed because he was uncooperative and unless he's already in detention because he broke another law. I can only imagine where this would lead if they take difficult child off all medications and send him home while they determine if they think he needs medications.

Obviously, I'd rather the school refer him, then let the team get verification from the private therapist/psychiatrist that he has a mental health diagnosis. If the school refers him, I don't think they can sit here for a year making us bark up the clinic's tree before taking action. If they do, then they can explain to the school why difficult child had to spend half the day at the clinic waiting to get in to his 1 hr appointment. And they can transport difficult child and wait with him while I'm at work, or they can pay my bills and I'll go sit over there half the day, and they can figure out what should be done and how to treat difficult child when they repetetively lose his file at the clinic.

I've been searching like crazy trying to find our jurisdictions "policies & procedures" guide on line and I haven't found it yet. Everything else from the state and county is on here- surely it would be too. I'm trying to find out if the school refers difficult child, how long would it take to get an FAPT meeting, what's the sliding scale for parents, if required, are there any time liimits involved for anything, etc.

Oh- jal- I had talked with a person at social services desk a couple of mos ago- I'd like to speak with someone higher up but haven't figured out how to get past that lady first. LOL! Anyway, that lady said if it's a legal complaint against difficult child, go to courts, if its mental health issue, go to clinic, if it's financial, apply for medicaid. Well, he won't qualify for medicaid this way because if I could work full-time, I'd make too much. If you get this CSA funding, it bypasses normal requirements for medicaid or something like that. Anyway, that's when I started calling the state dept of mental health. The guy there basicly told me the same thing. Except, he also told me that the school could refer it.
 
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witzend

Well-Known Member
When M got transferred from Juvie to the Residential Treatment Center (RTC), we called a medical transport place and told them to pick up and deliver a mentally ill teen who was currently compliant but could become violent. They sent some buff boys to pick him up, and it was M's choice to go quietly. He could have chosen shackled or tied to a gurney, but he didn't. Kind of like Whatsername Palin "choosing" to have her baby, if you know what I mean.

Given that they tend to take him, and getting him there is your primary concern, it seems you have to take it to the next step next time and refuse to let him return home after they "adjust his medications." You are not safe with him there. I wouldn't be able to sleep soundly. The only reason I ever got any sleep for the last year or so that M was with us was that I knew husband was in bed next to me, as was Bubba. husband might have had a problem defending me out of a sound sleep, but Bubba would have taken care of business from the get-go.
 

klmno

Active Member
It could get to that, Witz- if it does, it will be the stupid po making the final decision, unfortunately. I know I've been burning the board up lately with posts so I know you might not have read the issues I've had with her, but let's just say, she's stupid and apparently doesn't even beleive people can have mental health issues, she goes out of her way to try to go against me and make me look bad to the judge, she undermines my authority to difficult child and she has tried to tell me I have to do things that I know to be false and that even the judge wouldn't back up.

My plan this past spring- instead of taking difficult child to the psychiatric hospital that he'd been in before, I took him to the er at the teaching hospital. They have a treatment center there for kids with mental health issues (outpatient), an Residential Treatment Center (RTC), and are set up to have kids in the psychiatric hospital for long term evaluations as well as acute. It is state funded, partially, but is aprt of a university. The director of all this is highly reknown for adhd, autism, and mood disorders in kids. She was commissioned by our governor to be on the panel of experts to evaluate Cho and all that.

She is the person that lead difficult child's MDE last Oct. When I informed the PO last Sept that I had an appointment to take difficult child there to get evaluation'd, the po told me I was wasting my time because I should concentrate only on what the judge ordered- mst whacko guy. I went anyway. The judge happened to be very interested in what this psychiatrist evaluation'd and reported.

So, this past spring, I take difficult child to that er, knowing that if he left the acute phase but needed more than discharge to home, they could keep him there and evaluation him longer or put him in their Residential Treatment Center (RTC). difficult child happened to be on the ankle bracelet at the time, and of course on probation. The psychiatrist at the er said they would admit him, she had to call the po to tell her and asked if there was any issue cutting the ankle bracelet off difficult child. The po informed that psychiatrist of all difficult child's previous charges and apparently did so in such a manner as to scare psychiatrist into thinking that difficult child was a danger to everyone around him. PO told psychiatrist (psychiatrist told me) to send difficult child to the state psychiatric hospital- over a hundred miles away- where the seriously violent mentally ill (criminally insane) kids are. (This place also has a reputation of not even getting started on anything with their patients for weeks because they get tied up in paperwork beuacracy). The psychiatrist at the hospital had already determined that she would accept difficult child, so she told me she couldn't just let him go home- she had to send difficult child where the po told her to. See, difficult child is under the authority of this idiot po right now, not me.

Anyway, since this was downtown and not in my county, the psychiatric hospital psychiatrist sent in the mental health person from their board (thank god- not my jurisdiction's) because she had to approve transport and funding for difficult child to go to that state psychiatric hospital. When we talked, she said it was clear that it was not necessary or appropriate and she asked if I minded if difficult child was transported to the psychiatric hospital he'd been in before and would my insurance cover that. I told her that was fine- I preferred it over the state psychiatric hospital. So, that's what transpired. Fortunately, no one called PO back- they just transported difficult child to the psychiatric hospital of my second choice.

Of course, that other psychiatric hospital is completely private and has no long-term stay or Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

This is a long way of saying that if I can't get the backing (that makes it look like they are taking independent action) of an authority who has as much weight as the PO, the PO will undermine my efforts. The school has that much authority- even if they don't technically, difficult child's judge used to be a teacher and she weighs VERY heavily on what the school says and the PO knows it.

Can you clarify- does this mean there is a place I can call (a private company) and tell them I need to hire them to pick up difficult child and take him to an er, even if he doesn't want to go?

Now, I don't feel like my life is in danger- immenent danger- short term. Shoot, what happened last night is nothing compared to what has happened in the past- especially when I realized that difficult child had gone thru a phase of getting up during the night and stabbing walls with a knife. difficult child has had outbursts like this for about a year or so-intermittently. Normally, they come once every few mos. When he's majorly unstable, it might be more than one outburst but there are so many other indicators that he's out of whack, I'm usually already on top of a medication change or plan to get him to er. I don't think that's where he is right now.

Worse case scenario, I will have cops come get him, put him in juvy and explain to judge and hop she listens. I would do that before I let him kill me or himself or anyone else.

I don't think that's where we are right now. I think if something doesn't throw a wrench in this, it would get there someday. But, it isn't just that, it is that I can't afford to do this- I can't quit my job and difficult child can't quit school, so something has to be done.

But, I do appreciate all the ideas. Believe it or not, I am taking a thing or two from each post as I try to formulate a plan that the po can't undermine.
 

mom_to_3

Active Member
*** I think I found what you are looking for *** I'm a little excited for you!
CSA Manual/CSA Publications
The manual may be downloaded by clicking the links below.

**Hint for easy child users: The files can be viewed and/or saved in either Microsoft Word or Adobe Acrobat. Choose which ever you would like and click on the link next to the item you are viewing.

CSA Manual (Revised September 2004) Word PDF

Manual Appendices

Appendix A - Guidance on the Provision of Foster Care Word PDF

Appendix B - CSA & Special Education Technical Assistance Document Word PDF
Appendix C - Utilization Management Guidelines Word PDF

Appendix D - Utilization Review Guidelines Word PDF

Appendix E - Documentation Inventory Word PDF

Appendix F - Auditor of Public Accounts: Audit Specifications for Counties, Cities, & Towns Word PDF

Appendix G - Multi-Disciplinary Team Application Word PDF

Appendix H -Revised Foster Care Prevention Guidelines Word PDF

Appendix I - Adoption Subsidy & Residential Guidelines-Revised Broadcast Word PDF

Appendix J - Youth & Family Rights under CSA Word PDF


Also check out CSA Manual/CSA Publications

Gail Taylor
Coordinator
P.O. Box 1170

Amherst, VA 24521
Telephone Number: 434-946-9398
Facsimile Number: 434-946-9397
Email Address
Staff Directory
Department Hours: 8:30 am - 5:00 Mon-Fri


If that isn't enough, take a look at this:
http://www.google.com/search?q=virginia Community services Act policy&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7RNWN&sa=2
 

klmno

Active Member
Thanks!! See your last link listed- it is the manual for a specific county. I'm trying to find the Community Policies & Procedures (CMPT) for the county I live in. The CSA is a state law, I've read parts through it and it requires each local jurisdiction to establish it's own FAPT, which is governed by the CMPT. The CMPT is also a local group and it establishes its own policies and procedures for that locality- they have to conform to the state law of the CSA, but they can decide how people in that jurisdiction have to go about things, time limits, limits to funds, etc.
 

eekysign

New Member
I wish I had an answer.
Did find this... maybe you have seen it already? I don't think this is what Mom to 3 posted?

http://www.vacsb.org/
Has a bunch of info and links, directory.

Not sure where in VA you are, but just a note of caution. A member of my immediate family used to work for our local xxx. Left after 5 years of being both horrified and frustrated with the total incompetence of the workers there. My best friend's Mom also works for an organization closely tied to the local Children Services Board (CSB), and she agrees that the place is, at best, worthless, and at worst, will actually make the situation worse. Lack of funding, lack of education, lack of caring seems to be the general consensus for our local group.
 
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