NYT article on callous-unemotional children

[1 Day At a Time]

Here's a link for an article entitled, "Can You Call a Nine-Year Old a Psychopath"? in today's New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/m...-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html?_r=1&ref=health

 

[TerryJ2]

Oh, too funny--I just came over here to post this and here it is!
Fascinating article.
But I don't like the idea that the kids at the "camp" weren't helped, and they were treated like lab rats. I love the expression, "On task" and how Michael memorizes the terminology.
"Pay attention!" is more like it.
I disagree with-the potential diagnosis in so much of that, particularly since the dad turned out relatively normal, but I can see where they're going with-the other examples. Still, even the kid who tossed the toddler into the swimming pool "didn't get it" as opposed to being evil.

 

[1 Day At a Time]

It's an interesting article isn't it? I thought it was very well written. My take away is that there is hope, and folks are trying to work on methods to make that hope tangible. I've always worried that we spend too much time and money punishing folks who do wrong, and not enough time and money understanding the underlying issues and working to prevent them.

 

[keista]

Still, even the kid who tossed the toddler into the swimming pool "didn't get it" as opposed to being evil.

Well, I think the grown up psychopaths "don't get it" either. Cognitively, they know it's wrong, because they've been on the planet so long and have been repeatedly told it is wrong, but at the core of their being, they still "don't get it".

While studying these kids, they should be studying that father and others like him - the positive outcomes. Compare the positives to the negatives, and hopefully there you'll find the answers to creating a positive outcome. (or at least predicting the really negative ones.)

 

[TerryJ2]

Yes, knowing the father in this case if a valuable piece of information and potential information.

 

[buddy]

Well, I think the grown up psychopaths "don't get it" either. Cognitively, they know it's wrong, because they've been on the planet so long and have been repeatedly told it is wrong, but at the core of their being, they still "don't get it".

While studying these kids, they should be studying that father and others like him - the positive outcomes. Compare the positives to the negatives, and hopefully there you'll find the answers to creating a positive outcome. (or at least predicting the really negative ones.)

I just watched a show on kids who kill and the doctors said that the difference with a psychopath is that they do get it, from the beginning (this was about kids who kill) but that they like it, they feel no remorse not because they dont understand but they just have a personality that is that way. I dont know if they were right or wrong, just thought it was interesting. They followed one guy through to adult hood and he finally got let out of the institution he was in, and he found a psychotic killer for a friend and was able t o get him to do all the dirty work. More people died. Very scary.

 

[keista]

Buddy, I was watching the same show and thinking of this article. I guess eventually they get it to the point of understanding what they are doing is wrong and that they are inflicting pain, but they enjoy it. Which is the opposite of "getting it" in the traditional sense. Make sense? I think it all actually becomes a horrible exercise in semantics. Ultimately, the point is that they lack the ability to feel the remorse. in my opinion if you lack this ability, you are not evil, but a defective human.

 

[buddy]

I agree, I know I would hate anyone who hurt my family as these people do but my bias is still to feel that there has to be something wrong with them. What that means in the end??? They still need to be in a secure place where they are supervised and those men should never have been let out at any point. It is all so sad.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Buddy, that's my feeling, too.
Someone on an eariler post on this thread used the term "defective human beings". Probably accurate. It's a "mental illness"... but society still has to be kept safe from them.
Criminalizing mental illness, makes society in general less safe, not more safe.

 

[Liahona]

I think the mental illness could be part of why they do it. I know with x he has some form of mental illness. I also know that part of it is his choice to not get help despite overwhelming evidence that he can't function in relationships. He also enjoys hurting people. I think he started out "just" mentally ill then through his choices and Maybe some bullying in grade school it turned into a personality disorder.

The acts he does are the criminal component. But he can't separate his acts from the why. I sure can separate them.

If anyone had taken what difficult child 1 was doing about age 9 and applied towards the conduct disorder diagnosis he could've had that diagnosis. He was doing criminal acts. But since then I have watched as difficult child 1 choose to accept help. And he chooses to work on relationships and to not hurt people. I think difficult child 1 has the same basic mental illness x does. difficult child 1 is making different choices. If difficult child 1 ever stops choosing to work his therapy then things could get really bad very fast.

At least with the only sociopath I know personally there is a choice component.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Liahona... difficult child 1 has a Warrior Mom who is making a major difference in his life. THAT, applied early enough, is the best chance these individuals have. And most... don't.

 

[Liahona]

You're right.

 

[TerryJ2]

but that they like it, they feel no remorse not because they dont understand but they just have a personality that is that way.

Interesting. Yes, there is a difference between those who like it and those who just want to see what happens. Still, you have to catch them immediately when they're little and teach them consequences and theory of mind.

Yes, Warrior Moms make a huge difference.

 

[TerryJ2]

In regard to Warrior Moms making a huge difference, Jeffrey Dahmer's mom was schizophrenic and supposedly ran through the neighborhood screaming things on more than one occasion. She was in no position to be a Warrior Mom and he never stood a chance.
Although I have no idea what would have been done for him say, at age 7, if he were already disemboweling animals.