ODD...need lots of questions answered.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by brandyf, Sep 22, 2007.

  1. brandyf

    brandyf New Member

    Hello, I am brand new to this board. My son has ODD. He was diagnosed at age 4.5. He is 6 now. He is in the first grade and I have yet to tell my school about his diagnosis. Last year when he first started kindergarten I felt comfortable enough to tell our principal as he is a friend. He did ask if I had put this on his record or not, and told him no, wasnt sure that I am ready. Its just he doesnt have anything else with it. He was tested for ADD and ADHD...nothing. So I am hoping he will grow out of this by 9 or 10, like the studies show. he isnt on medications. it just :censored2: cuz i dont want him labeled, but then again i dont like teh way teh teacher this year is acting. she is real old school and keeps hinting around about spankings and its just rediculous. But then again, from everything i have read about ODD its rarely not accompanied by another diagnosis, right? so, maybe teh child psychologist was off on my son??? I just dont know really what i should do. he also is top of his class, very smart little boy which is odd for ODD, they usually have learning disabilities. he just gets bored, while everyone else is working and he starts picking on ppl, making trouble.

    any info would help.
  2. brandyf

    brandyf New Member

    30 yo mother of 2.
    girl-9...top of her class,
    boy-6...perfect just the way he is to me, not SOOO much for everyone else...lol
    he has ODD diagnosed 1.5 years ago. no medications. no other disorders. He has kept me on my toes, and on the defense every since he has been born. starting to really get to me and my family...and my husband...well just everyone.
  3. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member


    I would have him evaluated by a Neuropsychologist. They seem to have more testing to help with diagnosing.

    What is it that he does at home that is getting to everyone?
  4. AllStressedOut

    AllStressedOut New Member

    I agree with busywend...a neuropsychologist spent more time with my boys in 1 session than their psychiatrist did in 1 year of monthly sessions.

    ODD rarely stands alone. What behaviors besides picking on other students, is he showing at school?

    Welcome to the board! More will be along shortly to offer advice or ask questions.
  5. Jessica mom of 2

    Jessica mom of 2 New Member

    I am just curious, how is his behavior at school other than picking on students?

    I have a daughter (no diagnosis)who is very irritable, moody, argumentative, bad temper, frustrated easy and the list goes on. A typical ODD child. At school, completely different child. Would never harm a soul, gets embarrssed easy, shy etc.

  6. brandyf

    brandyf New Member

    well since my last post he was suspended from school for 1 day for throwing a pencil at another kid and his hit thier face. he is going down down down. i want Occupational Therapist (OT) blame it all on his teacher..of course, but serously she is making a lot of mistakes with him. had a 20 minute confrence with teh principal this morning to explain i was taking my son back to see a child psychologist and asked what would the school do if he were to have a medical mental diagnosis labling and so on...he said he wasnt like throwing desks or cussing...he just is constantly looking for attention and, once he gets in trouble for the day he just goes on and on and on. i think he has a touch of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), CD and anxiety.

    sunday he also got into a fist fight in my yard with a neighbors boy. so, i really dont know what the heck i am gonna do here.
  7. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    Hello brandyf,

    I agree with other posters that a neuropsychologist evaluation might get you some answers to the question of diagnosis.

    With regard to your son's trouble at school, does he have an IEP or any other supports within the school? You might want to check out the Special Education forum for more information about what you can do within your school district.

    As others have mentioned, ODD rarely stands alone. If you can pin down what's going on with your son and provide the right interventions for him (medications, behaviour mods, whatever works best for him and you), then it might reduce or even eliminate the ODD.

    Even if ODD persists, you will have a better understanding of why your son does what he does.

    Best of luck,
  8. brandyf

    brandyf New Member

    thank you for your reply. what would be the main difference between a neuropsychologist evaluation vs a child psychologist evaluation? our appointment is thursday with a child psychologist. when we went through this same type of evaluation right before he started kindergarten, which would have been about 1.5 years ago, it was during the summer months so we didnt have interaction with teachers and stuff, so she didnt have much to go off of except just what us as parents had to say...so hopefully it will be more thorough. and no he is not in any special classes yet. i am hoping for a behavioural plan so that his teacher has a set of guidelines. seh has pulled his desk all the way to the back of teh class. which i would think seh would move it closer to the front so seh could keep an eye on him..but who knows. she doesnt do much praising at all, which he really responds to and i have explained all of this to her...her motto is "its my way or the highway"...so, she is really getting under my skin. as soon as we get the behavior plan, she will have to comply. i am going to try to talk to the psychiatric about maybe a acedemic evaluation to see where he stands and then maybe try to get into IEP. i dont know much about that, so yet i will look on the other boards. thanks so much.
  9. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    The Neuropsychologist does a lot of in-depth testing that can identify neurological or mood disorders that might be causing your child's ODD. A child psychologist focuses more on talk therapy, behaviour modification, etc. Until you have a good diagnosis for your child, it's hard to decide what sort of intervention is best for your son, whether it's cognitive behavioural, medication, something else, or a combination.

    Lots of others on the board have also had success with the neuropsychologist evaluations. They tend to spend a lot more time with your child and with your parents, and conduct specific tests to get at the root of the problem. A child psychologist (who doesn't have an MD) can also be an excellent support if you find the right one, and you and your child click with them.

    You might also want to add a signature to your profile, so that other board members can get a quick summary of you, your family and your child (see the sig after my post for an example). It provides posters with a quick history, so that they can offer specific advice without having to ask you lots of questions each time. There are people on this board with lots of experience and great advice to offer. You've found a great forum.

  10. brandyf

    brandyf New Member

    thanks for all the info...

    not sure what all the abbreviations in her sig mean..

    but i get the idea..thanks a lot.
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Put in another vote for a neuropsychologist. They are much more intensive than a regular psycologist and ODD rarely stands alone. All the kids here have ODD symptoms, but the ODD is caused by other problems for the most part. It's much better to be safe than sorry. A few questions:
    1/Do you have any mood disorders or substance abuse on either side of the family tree? ANY psychiatric disorders?
    2/How was his early development? Speech or motor delays? Good eye cotact? Is he appropriate with his peers, does he know how to play with toys? Was he VERY precocious (strangely, this can mean the same as being delayed). Fixated on numbers and letters?
    3/Has he ever had an in-dept evaluation outside of school?
    This will help us more, but my own best advice is to not be afraid of what you may hear, and take it to a neuropsychologist or a Child Psychiatrist (with the MD) or both. My son was multiply misdiagnosed and treated for problems he didn't really have. I prefer being very cautious rather than "waiting and seeing" which can lead to it being way out of control, whatever "it" may be. ADHD isn't the only diagnosis for children and also, since there are no blood tests, every diagnosis is just the professionals best guess. We had poor luck with psychologists. Welcome to the board.
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I just read your assessment that he may have a touch of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and anxiety. CD is mostly diagnosed way after the child has been ill for a long time. It's mostly for remorseless teenagers and up. I'm wondering if he may have high functioning autism or a mood disorder. I'm not a doctor, of course, but he has symptoms of both disorders. I have a few links you can check out, if you like. If I were you, I'd read both, since when I started out I didn't really KNOW of the disorders kids can have. Also, my son was first diagnosed as ADHD/ODD then early onset bipolar. In his case, both diagnoses were wrong. If you don't have the right diagnosis., you can't get the right kind of help.
  13. brandyf

    brandyf New Member

    thanks so much for all the info. those websites are awesome. honestly i have no idea what he has...but i know its not normal. lol...even tho its not funny at all.

    1/Do you have any mood disorders or substance abuse on either side of the family tree? ANY psychiatric disorders?


    my mother and my entire side of the tree are alcoholics. my father i sware is bipolar, but too back-woods to ever care. i'm not normal by any means, have never been diagnosed, but i am not normal. i had a super horrible childhood and not much contact with family.

    husband on the other hand, had and still has a great family. he was always in trouble starting real early with vandelizing, stealing, lying..those types of things.

    2/How was his early development? Speech or motor delays? Good eye cotact? Is he appropriate with his peers, does he know how to play with toys? Was he VERY precocious (strangely, this can mean the same as being delayed). Fixated on numbers and letters?

    early development was difficult. he was always very angry, biting, hitting...tantrums.. no speech or motor delays, he is actually advanced in those areas. he does bike and skateboarding tricks that 9-12 year old kids on my street cant do. eye contact???? not sure. i believe he was fine.. not appropriate with peers, he is better as a 6year old however. when he was a toddler, i wouldnt leave him in a room wtih another child ever. he has never really been into toys. he likes puzzles, baseball cards, marbles, fake money, things he can count and keep track of. he is still that way today, but he is very athletic as well. numbers and letters??? only now that he is really into reading..he likes to make up new words adn try to spell them. that sort of thing.

    3/Has he ever had an in-dept evaluation outside of school? he has not been evaluated in school ever, nor have they mentioned it. The only evaluation we have had was 1.5 years ago, for 3 months once a week for an hour we went to teh psychologist. we basically all learned parenting skills and different ways to handle andrew, he was taught some coping skills...which really done nothing. the parenting skills was good tho. he really responded to praising and our behavior chart, reward box...

    its kind of crazy to type it all out adn then re-read...wow.,,,

    anyway..i guess i wil call my ins company and see about teh neuropsychologist evaluation.

    thanks for all your help. let me know if you get anything out of his history..i would appreciate it.
  14. SnowAngel

    SnowAngel New Member

    As far as the abreviations go, there is a forum to help with those, its the first forum listed I believe.

    My youngest has ODD. He also has ADHD, disruptive behavior disorder and severe anxiety. They believe he has bipolar too.
    It is difficult when others have advice to give when they don't know what you are dealing with.

    I would try talking to the teacher with the principal so that everyone is on the same page. This doesn't mean she is right, but lets her know how your child needs to be handled. For example: My Ducky needs to explain his side of what happened even if he is in the wrong, otherwise he feels that the outcome is unfair. Very simple solution for the teacher...listen to him.

    I totally agree with everyone about the neuropsychologist evaluation. I just learned yesterday that Peanuts old psychiatrist(psychiatric Dr) had been treating the ADHD this caused more mood instability from his ODD and bipolar. It is critical in their treatment to pinpoint the correct diagnosis. It also is fair to get a 2nd opinion.

    Keep us updated. Good luck & Welcome.
  15. brandyf

    brandyf New Member

    thank you. and most of all thanks for talking in regular terms...

    in a perfect world i would like my children to be able to deal with whatever life hands them, after all i am preparing them for life after mom and dad...ya know? i have probably the biggest problem of all just trying to admit that my little boy has got some issues. it just s@*%s.

    i pulled up pediatric neuropsychologist in my area (springfield missouri) in google. there was only 1 comment, it stated from a mother that she thought they were too "medication happy". Kind of scares me. But I supose i would have the final say so and would be the one dosing it out..

    after our first evaluation/meetings with our old psychiatric when she set us up on the behavior plan, which was only done at home because it was during the summer he really had a rapid 100% turn around and continued throughout his entire kindergarten year. he only had 1 incident which was the first week fo school. it was like he had just been begging for disciplin that made since, was calm and not so angry and sporadic like we had been in the past.

    this morning, our principal informed me that his teacher had lost one of her parents over the weekend and thats why she wasnt there on monday. (andrew was finishing out his suspension so he wasnt there) but that he was sure that was playing a part in everything because she is emotionally upset.(??????) i feel for her, truley, and have no idea what she is doing at school.

    after school when i picked the kids up today, he was so happy for a change. he said he had stayed on green all day (they do the green, yellow, pink, red thing in his class) and that she had sent a note home (happy gram). I immediately made a huge fus of it, took them up to the store, bought him something special...rushed home to brag to his dad, called granny, dad took him to toys r us ....the whole 9 yards. i pray this is making a difference. he knew about the death of her family member. he has remorse. its so sincere. i wonder if he really was good, or if she was told about my meeting with the principal and was told to do so.

    i am on the PTA at our school, i have made their yearbooks 2 years in a row, for free. i volenteer at every event including our little library which is an every day event. i am not griping about it, this is what i love. this is why i work from home. i feel like the staff looks at me like i am the problem, or i am a failure of a parent.

    do you guys ever get this? i have been known to over think everything...but i am just wondering should i drop all of it? do they think i should focus more on my son? i shouldnt care i guess, but its just killing me.

    i care, way too much maybe. after all the principal didnt think he was out of control or needing anything. he just kept saying "keep your head up, he will turn around, we arent giving up on him"....

    wish there was a manual about this stuff.
  16. brandyf

    brandyf New Member

    by the way, how did you get all these diagnoses? did you guys see a neuropsychologist? how long did it take? thanks.
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Of course, I'm a layperson, but if this were my child, knowing what I didn't know way back when, I would seriously want a neuropsychologist to look at possible early onset bipolar. It seems to run in the family, it's hereditary, and substance abuse is a red flag for that too. I'd also want Aspergers looked at. And everything else, of course. But often we can almost diagnose on our own by looking at our family tree. ODD is a huge behavior in mood disorders and behavioral therapy will not alone do any good. Without medications, a mood disorder can get progressively worse. I know mine did. (((Hugs))) and good luck.
  18. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    There is a difference between ODD behaviors and ODD the disorder. Real ODD will not go away by treating it like something else.

  19. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I just love the principals comments, acting like you should calm down and he will make it all better. YIKES! Don't you just wish they could take our kids into their homes for a week so they could see what we are talking about?

    You are doing a great job advocating for your own child. Not every parent gets calls from school, bad reports from the teacher, and has their 6 yo in a fist fight. These are not your average parenting experiences for a 6 year old.

    I do recommend the neuropsychologist because that was the first time I felt comfortable with a diagnosis. It seemed more detailed and the report was written in a way that I could see all of the reasons the neuropsychologist came up with the diagnosis'. If I were you I would find one and make an appointment. It usually takes months to get it. If you find a different avenue to take then you can cancel.
  20. SnowAngel

    SnowAngel New Member

    Some children with mental disorders can't handle change and tend to be sensitive with other peoples emotions. My Peanut gets so enraged when anyone in the house is angry...the counselor said this could be anxiety? Your son might have picked up on his teachers emotions. It is good that he shows remorse...mine doesn't.

    My ducky can't handle change, so when there is a sub in his class he goes to another class where he knows the teacher. There are accomidations that the school can make without an IEP or 504 plan.

    I am a single parent raising 4 of my 6 kids. Three of my kids have mental disorders. My 18yr daughter has two heart conditions. I don't like what my kids are dealing with. We are supposed to raise them and keep them safe, yet it isn't that easy with mental disorders. I hate facing their disorders. I have played the blame game, however the bottom line is they have it and it doesn't matter where they got it because it wont change them having it.

    I too have felt that the school thought I wasn't doing enough until I turned it around in my head. These people don't understand these disorders, most of them dont have family with them. I think they feel bad for not being more helpful, but offer what little advice they can which unfortunately sounds like they think we dont correct our children. Next time try to think of their advice that way and remember it is comming from people who are uneducated on mental disorders.

    As far as the principal, I think he doesn't want you to feel like it is a big issue and that they are there for you both. It is nice to see a principal stay positive. I would still get the neuropsychologist evaluation. Keeping a journal also helps. Many hugs and prayers sent your way.