OK- now what?? (job related)

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by klmno, Mar 16, 2011.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I didn't get the job I interviewed for- I'm disappointed but understand. I have managed projects and people assigned to help me complete those projects but have not managed other primary managers. Either they didn't clarify that's what they were looking for in their ad or I misunderstood it. The places I've worked for in the past only had partners or office owner doing that. Anyway, they were very nice about it so I'm ok- except that now I'm left with difficult child boss.

    I never recieved a "your fired" letter or anything from this company. I'm out of town this week so I discussed the situation with someone here to get her advice. I'll have to explain the structure of this job organization for this to make sense.

    There's a big government organization (client) who contracts work out to companies. One company pertaining to me has a contract that is set to expire at the end of this summer (I'll call that company "A"). That company subbed out a portion of the work to a smaller company and that's the company I actuall work for- I'll call it company "B". Now, my boss supervises all people in this region who have this job title that I do whether they work for company A or B. The higher up's in company B apparently couldn't care less what boss does as long as client is happy because both company A and B want a new contract with the client when this one runs out and B is going for it with and without company A, although A doesn't know that.

    Then, throw in a client's rep who boss and I work directly with when in our home town and not away on a business trip. That client's rep (I'll call him T), is trying to be above board but I honestly don't think he has a clue how decieving boss is to CYA himself or manipulate client's rep. Oh- and client's rep and boss don't get along with the point-of contact (POC) of comapny A.

    So today I discuss my ordeal with boss to another person that works for client and knows all these people a little but not a close relationship and who is completely outside of the contract issues, etc, thinking she could be objective as anyone who could understand it and give me some advice. She said it seems obvious to her that boss is working to get me out of there quick but she doesn't think the client's rep we deal with is quite that blind to boss's ways. She told me to speak with client's rep alone and say, since he wants me to work with him directly on next contract and since he is our main POC for client, would he remain involved in communication between boss and I so if I am misunderstanding boss's communication than he can help me understand what I should do differently.

    Then, she said document all of boss's previous things that seem out of line and get a tape recorder so the next time boss and I are alone and he tells me something different than client's rep has said or something than boss himself has said when client''s rep is around or when boss is going ballistic on me after sitting there acting so reasonalbe in front of client's rep, I can record it and play it to boss's rep. I told her this would create a ballisstic situation. She said yes, but I had nothing to lose and boss isn't going to wait long before completely discrediting me and ruining any job possiblity. She has a point but I'm really worried that boss already has client's rep turned against me. She told me if that's the case, all this documentation can be used later to show that I did report it to someone representing client and this is what T did or didn't do. Otherwise, I didn't try to resolve the issue. The bigger problem in all this though is that neither company A or B has a real policy for grievences and none of them are holding boss accountable or even are involved enough to know if boss was lying out his rear.

    I wanted to get your all's ideas, opinions, etc about what to do.

    Then this afternoon, I get an email from boss (funny how this is the first in the past 5-10 he's had any response to) and it copied the p[erson at company B who does payroll, who is also handling security clearance paperwork and is company B's owner's daughter. Boss asked me to change my timesheet because 1) I came in after 7:30 on Fri morning and left at 9:00 and I'd indicated I worked 2 hours on Fri and 2) I had indicated 1/2 hour of work on Sat and he had no idea what that was for and he hadn't authorized it, as was required by policy.

    OK, first- I came in 5 mins late, or at least less than 10 mins late. I left after 9:30. I had written 2 hours on my timesheet for Friday. I have checked my company computer and verified this by emails sent out by me and the time/date showing on a file for "last modified". Second, on Sat. I spent 1/2 hour on the government computer checking emails from Friday late morning and afternoon because other people were emailing asking me questions, as boss had told them to do. Boss doesn't respond to their emails either and when I'm out of town, I don't have the same email access as I do at home. It's available but I can only do so much with it during the day- hard to explain without getting into too much detail. I had responded to an email on Sat, as well, and copied boss and have that on my computer so it can be proven. Was it previously authorized by him? No, not sprecifically, but he - even in today's email- said "exceptions could be made when on out of town trips". Well, this kind of thing has never been an issue before. I wasn't out of town over the weekend but left Mon morning and knew I wouldn't be able to respond to that lady at least until Monday afternoon if I didn't do it then. So what really is the problem? Boss has done all these things himself and let's "drug-boy" come to work whenever he wants, claim comp time and take off work whenever he wants and never has an issue. Boss never had an issue with me doing this before either, although I really don't think I have lied and taken advantage of it, but now all of a sudden, it's an issue.

    I can't wait until I'm back in town to respond to this due to timesheet date requirements. Therefore, I'm thinking about emailing back, copying company B's same person, saying that I have double checked documentation on my computer and I in fact did work 2 hours Fri therefore, I am not going to change that to 1 1/2 hour. As far as Sat, I did ABC, sent out an email in repsonse, which boss was copied on. Remind him (so other lady will know) that I am out of town this week and based on previous communications, had not thought there was reason to have this authorized ahead of time by him. However, if this is how he wants things done now, I will remove that 1/2 hour of work. Then, ask if he will let me know in writing what the specifics are for overtime work when out of town since some things can only be doen from the hotel room and I try to make the most use of my time when at these sites. Also, since company B doesn't pay overtime but allows comp time to makeup for overtime hours, please confirm that if I am expected to work overtime while on trips, that I will be allowed to take it on weeks I am in town because I have been scheduled to be out of town almost every other week and as a result get very far behind in necessary personal appts, phone calls, etc.

    Also, if there is a way to bring up that I'd like it in writing what boss directs from now on, I'd love it. There are a lot of things that he's reniged (sp) on- example- telling me when I took the job that I'd be travelling about once a month. HA! Is there a nice way to work in something like "since I seem to have difficulty keeping up with the changes in your direction, could you please put them in writing in the future and copy either T or (whomever)"??
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Sounds like you've mostly figured it out. Consider recording him your way of doing CYA, ditto the asking in writing with cc's asking for a clarification of duties and company rules relating to those duties.
  3. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Go for it. But even though Boss copied it to Company B's person, you should Bcc it, not CC. it also gives Boss enough rope to do something dirty like forward a copy of your email to Company B person with some nasty remark such as "She's trying to rip us off again". Especially if he only sends a snip and not the whole thing. "By your actions shall you be known".

    As for asking for clarification in writing - put it as nicely as possible. Your suggested "since I seem to have difficulty keeping up with the changes in your direction, could you please put them in writing in the future and copy either T or (whomever)".

    Try "In order to maximise efficiency, please give instructions in writing so I may expedite them as effectively as possible and as closely as possible to your intent. My aim is to do the job to the best of my ability according to your instructions. If you could also CC to T or [??] that would also ensure that others know exactly what it is I am supposed to be doing, in case I happen to get off track."

    By implying that YOU need it because you just need a written memory jogger, it allows him to still feel superior (which he needs; and frankly, you need him to feel secure so he will not try to undermine you) but also telegraphs to other people that you have problems with hi but are actively and positively trying to come up with a practical, workable solution.

    It's similar in some ays to the hassles I've had with this woman in our community, who THOUGHT she was the head of our combined churches committee when in fact nobody is the head, it's all teamwork. And she doesn't know how to be a team player. it's made a lot more work for us. I've sent emails worded firmly but gently, to all committee members, basically calling her on the problems she has claimed but I worded it in a way that supported her and made her look mistaken rather than idiotically wrong. "Perhaps M didn't realise, but it did not occur as she believed and expressed in her recent minutes. In reality, X happened instead, as attested to by Mr K. That should hopefully reassure M that her fears of divisiveness and chaos are unfounded, and we can get on with our united and valued efforts to organise our next combined event in the correct spirit of unity and harmony."

    it's very hard to accuse such a statement of being an attack! Even though it actually was... although it was only an attack, if someone chose to interpret it that way and try to act accordingly, because everyone else WANTS to believe in unity and the only person left looking divisive, is M!

    I love being a B***h... Babe In Total Control of Herself...

  4. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I would be recording everything he says from now on. If he wants to fire you he will but at least you will have your documentation to prove he is a jerk.
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Two questions- 1) Is there any way to word this or add something in about these "policies" he now suddenly has applying to everyone and not just me? and 2) I'm almost afraid to refuse to change part of my timesheet hours. I'll take 1/2 hour off on Sat because he didn't pre-authorize it- not that ever mattered before and I had legitimate reason to do what I did Sat- but really think that if a file on my laptop says it as last modified at 9:35am on Friday, I didn't shut that computer down before 9:00am- is there any way I could be wrong about that? After I shut my computer down, I had to pack it and other stuff up to take with me for this trip, then I talked with T a min, then boss came back to area and tried to instigate something else but I just left. I figure I was there about 15 mins after actually shutting the computer off. Still, if he asked T and T said "she left around 9:00 I think", that could be perceived as me defying both of them.

    This is all so stupid- I don't want to be spending time on koi like this but boss is opposite- he'll spend a day at work complaining about something like this which leads me to think he stews on it 24/7, yet when it comes to something actually pertaining to the role we are support to be providing for the client, he'll blow it off or not respond at all or make some rash decision then either deny it or change his mind 5 times.
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Janet- that's another thing I don't understand. I don't have anything in writing like a contract and they could fire me at any time for no reason so there is no reason for him to be a jerk toward me or spend time trying to discredit me or whatever- if he just wants me gone, there are a lot more professional ways to go about it than this.
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I know. However, just do it. I know many people who are subcontractors. Are you a 1099 worker or a W2? Since you get insurance I am assuming W2.

    I actually know someone, or knew someone because they died a few years ago, who worked for a company providing computer support services to the army. The army had contracted that particular issue out to a large corporation based out of VA. He lived in TX and the large corporation subcontracted the TX work out to a TX company for the army units in TX.

    Does this sound vaguely familiar? Well, eventually, the army decided to take bids on its contracts like the do so often which left the whole country in a panic because if the main contractor at risk, the subs were at risk. If the main one lost the contract, there was no sure thing that if a new large corporation would still keep the subs working. In fact they didnt. They decided they wanted to just come in and use their own people based out of wherever they were based out of and do it all. Now luckily for my friend, he interviewed with the new company and they hired him on...at a slightly reduced salary though but he had just bought a house where he lived and had a lot of kids to think about. It would not have been easy for him to jump ship and go looking elsewhere.

    I wonder if you are in a similar position.
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I'm going to mull it over a bit more. Right now I'm in the mood to justs email the woman from company B I referred to and just tell her that ordinarily, I would just go along with what boss says but it has gotten to a point where this means I'm going to catch his wrath if I don't, even if he's not telling the truth, and it's turned into an issue at least once a week so something needs to be addressed and resolved one way or another by the higher ups in the company because it's interferring with me being able to get my work done. I would follow proper procedure if I lknew what that was, if there is one, and it might be covered in the company policay manunal however, I'm out of town this week and don't have that manual with me.
  9. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I don't feel comfortable giving advice on this issue.. Frankly, even if he is a complete loser, he evidently has the power and nobody has been dissatisfied with his performance enough to take action. I'm afraid that you might end up on the short end of the stick and end up jobless with-o a recommendation to take with you. The situation is terrible and as I have posted before I have been in similar circumstances. You truly have my sympathies.

    My gut says you should not record anything due to the sensitive nature of your environment. My gut says you should keep emails etc. just in case they come in handy. on the other hand the new kid on the block, hired on a temporary basis, just doesn't seem to stack up as a fighting position. Trying to get clarificaions makes sense if you need to try to defend your work but the question is who other than your sorry boss would care...and he doesn't.

    Networking to find other opportunities makes alot of sense. Sharing your concerns with someone in the loop?....I'm not so sure that couldn't come back and bite you. You really, really have my sympathies. Hugs. DDD
  10. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    I have to agree with DDD. I think when everything shakes down, you will come out on the bottom as the loser...and it won't matter whether you were "right" or not. You'll be un-employed without a recommendation.

    Continue to job-search AND look for an opportunity to bow out gracefully. Clearly, whatever the dynamic is with the boss - it is not one that is going to work out long-term.
  11. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    I don't have any advice for most of your situation simply because I dont' have personal experience with any of these situations but I am sorry this crud is still ongoing for you at your workplace. This guy would drive me bonkers.

    One thought I had regarding hours worked and proof. You know the little clock and calender on the bottom corner of computers? Use your cellphone each day when you arrive (first thing) and again when you are leaving (last thing before exiting building) and snap a photo of that computer/date stamp. Just keep them on a flash drive or something for reference. It certainly shows what time you are in the office at.
  12. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Well, I left a little early today since I need to deal with that timesheet issue and can only do that from the hotel due to weird computer setups between my issued laptop and this property here and I am going to send it out with time changed as requested, still briefly describing what time was spent on but agreeing to take it out because it was not pre-authorized (never mind that it never had to be before and apparently it's another rule that changes from person to person and day to day - but I woon't say that). I will say, however, that since I now see this is his current requirement, I will not work any more overtime here or on any trip for work, including travel time, without receiving pre-authorization in writing from him. If the company wants to pay for extra trips insterad of giving comp time for me working as many hours as possible while here, that's their perogative (I won't include that statement either.) My thought is that if I don't say something, it will appear to company B's lady that I tried to lie about my time and I got caught, which isn't true. Boss would know I was on company computer responding to emails from other employees Sat. if he bothered to read his email because I copied him on it.

    To clarify: when I said I was a temp employee, we all are considered temp because all of us that work for company A and B are out of a job if this contract doesn't get renewed. What I think bosxs is trying to do is have this company that we both work for drop my position for the next contract and turn client's rep (T) against me so he'll change his mind about keeping me on to work primarily with/for him.

    Many other employees have complained about boss. But mostly those who have to answer to him in some way but technically work for company A. Then boss gets reprimanded but kisses up and smooths things out, still bad mouthing and setting up whomever complained about him to try to get that person fired. His 2 people that work closely with him cover for him- one of those is drug boy and according to drug boy, boss knows he does them. Boss covers for him; he covers for boss. The other one- well- I don't know- I think that person knows she's lucky to have a job with the pay and responsibility for her level of education and expertise and she gets what she wants from boss, so she covers for him. See, I get the feeling if I covered for anything he did- incompetence, lying, etc- he'd want to keep me on, too. That's really why he wants rid of me. My work is exposing some things and it's not intentional on my part, it's just raising the question in a whole lot of people- "why hasn't this been done the past 3 years"?
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  13. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    OH- the advice given to me yesterday wasn't meant as hope for saving my job or working things out successfully so much as it was to follow proper procedure so I could have some chance, still, of getting a job with the client directly, in a different department of course.
  14. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Recording and documenting the problems is a good idea, in my opinion. It own't help you keep this job but it will help you prove hostile work environment or unfair termination or many other things that are not legal in the workplace. They may or may not hlep you get a job with the client directly, though I would be as easy to work with as possible when you are working with the client. I don't think you can easily ask boss to put directions in writing. He will NOT want to do that because it can expose his actions and idiocy and this could be a real problem.

    Keep applying for positions other than this, or at least with the client directly. It is really hard when you have such a terrible boss.
  15. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Thanks, Susie- that's along the lines of what this lady advised me and what I'm thinking although I might not go about it exactly as she suggested. I sent a revised timesheet out with an email this evening. I "replied to all" meaning it went to boss and the lady at our company B- this is who he emailed with me so I figured it was fair even though he has one big fit any time an employee discusses something with someone besides him. Nevertheless, I revised the timesheet per his request and emailed saying what my time was spent doing on Sat and that I thought he knew since I'd copied him on an email ansering another employee's question and that was sent out on Sat. Also, I had reviewed my records on Sat and updated my timesheet. These are what my records showed "ABC" but it's not worth arguing to me so I have changed it because perhaps, I could be mistaken. And I removed the time shown for Sat. because it hadn't been preauthorized. Next paragraph- Since I know this is what he is requiring now, I will not work anymore overtime here (at this remote location out of town) unless I receive written preauthorization from him first. Also, "please recall our discussions regarding my being out of town about every other week and that meaning that I need to use comp time to do personal business" plus some other points- this company only gives 3 days sick leave a year and short lunches, etc. Boss never did this himself or made anyone else do it- until he got mad at me but I didn't spell that out.

    Next paragraph- I wrote that "as you recall, you asked me to change your travel schedule and come here until finished, bumping other places behind ((interject for board members- it's not my fault this isn't finished and anybody pertaining to this job knows that) and I sent a proposed revised schedule. I haven't gotten a response from you whether or not that schedule meets your approval. Also, I indicated on that schedule that I would come on Sundays so I could have all day on Monday to work here in an effort to minimize trips by making the most efficient use of my time here. I need to know if this is approved and if the time spent traveling would be 'an approved exception based on need and a preauthorization for overtime' ".

    Then, I added another paragraph mentioning that when I interviewed and discussed this position with him, I specifically asked the frequency of travel that would be expected and he told me once a month. Obviously, he is now requiring a lot more and his directions and expectations are changing frequently. So, I asked that he please please future direction and requirements in wrinting, via email, so we could prevent future misunderstandings and misinterpretations.

    Then I closed with a thank you. (That went to boss and company we work for directly.)

    Then, I forwarded the whole thing to the rep from comapny A, who has the prime contract and who I know for sure has received complaints about boss in recent months. I included a very brief message saying that I was forwarding this to him because it's up to him to keep track of travel, reimburse us, etc. But I basicly pleaded that he not let boss know I had sent this to him because I knew I would suffer his wrath and there were some problems here that I'm trying to find out how to address properly.

    The way I see it, I have followed proper procedure now- both of these companies have been made aware that there is a problem, although they don't have all details and won't unless they follow-up. Next stop- client's rep, then client agents if no one asks me what is going on before it gets to that point.

    I've never pursued a complaint like this before so I hate to think what all could happen.
  16. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    I sure hope someone with power to put gfgboss in his place (like out the door) sits up, notices, and takes action.
  17. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I went to work this morning and had found an email from person at company A that I sent email to yesterday. He apparently does not see himself in this chain and told me I needed to deal with it with company B, since boss and I both work for them.

    Ok, but what do I do if/when they don't do anything? And I don't know what I should email back to him, if anything. But, some of his employees have my boss as a supervisor, too, and one particularly I know complained to this man about boss. Afterwards- this went on for weeks and is only now starting to taper off- boss did everything he could to discredit her- even going so far as putting her on speaker phone while I was there so I could hear her. After the phone call ended and client's rep was back, he claimed that lady had given him attitude and wouldn't cooperate with him, etc, and acted like he expected me to back thatt up. It wasn't true. Then he apparently relayed the same story to her boss- this same man I emailed at company A. Now one would think that the man would want to know if something like that is going on wouldn't you? When she complained initially, the man did get boss reprimanded or did it himself or something. Boss only says she rubbed him the wrong way- ok- but that doesn't give him the right to lie about how she interacts with him and be vindicative.

    I don't know what I should do- boss is going to be after me to get me out unless I cahnge and start being willing to do things like back him up for that type of koi (she's not the only one he's gotten vindictive on and misrepresented things time and time again, for months, to try to prove something- he holds a grudge). Then, there are the incompetent, rash decisions he makes, then changes 3 times, wasting tons of manhours.

    I've got to get the car packed and check-out then drive home. I'll check back in later.
  18. mom_to_3

    mom_to_3 Active Member

    klmno, I don't think you can "fight" them, and even if you did, you wouldn't really "win" anyway. I believe you are going down a path to really just hurt yourself further or to allow yourself to be hurt further. In my life, I've decided that I don't have the room nor the time for this kind of negativity. If I don't like something or someone, and it doesn't work for me, I simply move on to bigger and better things. It's just not a good fit. When I could finally realize and accept and incorporate that statement into my life, it gave me freedom.......... The freedom and power to control what direction I want my life to go. I just had to do this with a company that I thought I really wanted to work for. I was very wrong. The work environment and management just didn't work for me at all. My move was the best thing that could have happened to me! Sometimes it's best not to rock the boat while you're in it, but the minute you get the chance, JUMP SHIP! Keep on looking, lay low and GOOD LUCK!
  19. mom_to_3

    mom_to_3 Active Member

    Oh, and there is definitely TOO MUCH DRAMA going on! Who needs it?!
  20. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    I am not sure what you are wanting to accomplish. Get him fired? If he is a performer for the company, its not going to happen. The company will keep him as long as he produces results, and it won't matter how many people he burns out with his personality. Egotistical people who are hard to deal with are found everywhere in corporations - I have one in my home office that makes me want to poke at my eyes with sticks whenever I see her name on an email. I have sat in meetings where she has trashed our current underwriter for a company to the company, not comming right out and saying that person refuses to roll over and do accounts at the pricing she wants (you would have to be an idiot NOT to read between the lines), and has been always successful at getting that person changed for another more mallable type. She is in a power position and produces money for them is where it is at at the end of the day - results is the only thing anyone cares about.

    The only thing I would suggest is to email confirmations back to him every dang time he tells you to do something without asking any questions in it (cause he isn't going to respond in like kind). But have to tell you, if anyone in this company step outside and get someone who is a client involved in office politics and personalities, they would be gone so fast their head would spin if the boss would get wind of it. It wouldn't matter if that person was right or wrong, it would be just the very idea of airing dirty laundry and confidentality.