ok what do i do???? i'm clueless

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Jena, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. Jena

    Jena New Member

    i really am regarding easy child. i have yet to hand out the punishment to her. i wanted to wait until difficult child left friday night with her dad. easy child's not going and i didnt' want to risk a blow up again.

    she's telling me she'll leave the house whenever she wants and not obide by the punishment, she will do what she wants when she wants, bottom line. she refuses to go to therapy. i called her dad today and said ok when i get a person and set an appointment can you come here and help me get her into the truck.

    she's too old for this, 16. she's taller than me for crying out loud but she needs help, guidance counselor at school called and said the same to me as well.

    any ideas on how to do this, i can't quit another job even though id' love to
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there. This is sad--when a easy child suddenly starts doing the difficult child :(.

    I can only relay that my own daughter--the famous one who took drugs and quit--would not go to counseling either after a few times of snowing her therapist. It didn't matter because she didn't talk to him anyway. It's unlikely you could make your daughter talk either. Unfortunately, by 16, if they don't want help there isn't a whole lot you can do to make them accept it. We tried and tried. I have a few suggestions though that could get her court mandated help maybe (not sure, since my daughter was a drug user and that was partly why she was finally forced to see another counselor whom she also snowed and wouldn't talk to).

    If your daughter is out after curfew, call the cops. I did that. If she breaks the law in any way, again call the cops. She can NOT do whatever she wants to do. She is a minor and there are laws. If the police get involved it can actually help you get her services and she won't have a choice. Are drugs involved here? That makes a big difference. A sudden change in behavior is any teen soooooooooo makes me think it's drugs--it's like a little alarm bell goes off in my head. :anxious: I'm so sorry about this. I've been there/done this and have gray hair under my hair dye because of it.
  3. Jena

    Jena New Member

    hi and thanks and i'm sorry that you had to go through what you did. grey hair isnt' even the word, my eyes are swollen for days now.

    there is no drugs invovled, she's drug tested periodically and is always clean. she's not pregnant. she's just very mad at me, for years i've tried therapy on and off for her. she'd never talk. so when my divorce hit therapy no response from her.

    then this thing with-school and my reaction to it which i think she thought i'd stand up for her triggered her something awful.

    shell go out and make sure she's home by the time i get in from work. i told her today i do not care how mad at me you are i will not tolerate being cursed at belittled and put down and insulted. i told her if she breaks the rules that i put in place than she will wind up out of the home.

    i said to her i do not want to do anything to you to lead you to be out of our home i love you, yet if this is how your going to do this and i can't trust you i will have to get a parents pense petition and have a p.o. for you. yet she's 16 i hate to do that. but 16 still means years and years to go from here for her.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Lord, I hear you. I'm really sorry. It's so hard when they get into the more upper teens and decide to be brats. There's not a whole lot we can do either. I hope things get better for the two of you, but if not...do what you have to do. I did.

    When she's 23 she'll love you again. That's almost a promise.
  5. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Jena isn't the school punishing her for the test? Why give her 2 punishments for the same crime. Let the natural ones do their job.

    As for her current attitude. Hmmm. You know her best. But all I can say is if she were mine, her social life would cease to exist. No friends, no phone, no computer, no ipod, no nothing that let's her socialize. Nothing.

    So? What if she takes off on you? Hunt her arse down and physically drag her fanny home. *hint* Grabbing on to an earlobe and pinching for all you're worth does wonders in getting a stubborn child to cooperate. Don't think you can handle it alone? Take the police along with you. Let them help you drag her arse home. (or a large male family member)

    Maybe she needs a therapist, maybe not. I'm more in the mind of thinking you've got a teen who is pushing her limits to see how much you're gonna let her get away with. You give her an inch, she's gonna take a mile.

    My kids didn't pull this routine. Only for one reason. They all knew Mom would hunt them down and gladly humilliate them in front of their friends and drag them home. (I'm 4 ft 11 in by the way)

    It's pretty simple. If Mom can't trust you, you can't have a social life until Mom can trust you.

    Sorry she's attempting to turn difficult child on you. If it makes you feel any better my easy child went thru a very brief stage of this. No "life" for 3 mos re-adjusted her attitude.

    Like I said, you know her best. But sometimes the old fashioned way works best.


  6. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Ditto what Lisa said. I don't think this is difficult child behavior - I think she's testing you.

    Sending warrior mom strength your way - you will need it!:warrior::sword:Get her!
  7. everywoman

    everywoman Active Member

    Jana tried to turn difficult child on me once---at about 14-15. She was made to go to therapy. Her social life depended on it. If she refused to go so did the cell, the computer, the car---everything that made her life worth living to her at the time. Thank goodness she knew I meant business and the therapy made a world of difference in her attitude. Try approaching it from a "I''m worried about you" stand point instead of as a punishment.
  8. Jena

    Jena New Member

    i hear what you are saying, yet this is different, very different. she's never spoken to me this way, she's cursing me out literally, putting down my job, me, who i am, what i do everything. she's very mad, and very angry. there's junk in there. it's more than defiance. i can sense it.

    yet yes i can hunt her down go get her, yet i'm not here alot i work now. she's also going to be home alone in this house and we remember what last time home alone meant for her one lousy night i tried to go out?

    you can lead the horse to water yet that whole can't make them drink it thing. i can force her into therapy yet she wont talk and i've done that before. therapist said she isnt' ready.

    im scared for her now. she's refusing to do her chores, refusing to listen to me, no consequence matter she is officially in i dont' care mode. that's a dangerous place when their there and she's there bigtime.
  9. Jena

    Jena New Member

    she looks sad and angry. guidance counselor called today and said they all feel this is symptomatic of something larger with her. i agreed. i've seen it tweeking it's way to the surface bit by bit the past 3 or 4 years little incidences here and there, nasty words anger towards me almost right away. very disrespectful towards me kinda thing.

    i just dont' know. my stress level is higher than i think it's ever been.i almost quit my job today. i feel like a joke walking into homes trying to fix their carp while mine's wacked out. plus the stress of that difficult child, easy child there is a thread and im hanging from it lol. seriously i had to work out of a panic attack today while driving. that hasnt happened in a long while
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Jen, it is time to hit her where it hurts.

    Take a day off of work, or send her somewhere for a day or two. Then go into her room. Take a big roll of garbage bags.

    Take EVERYTHING out of her room except for the bed (mattress or mattress and box springs on the floor - she will trash the frame in all likelihood because this is going to infuriate her). Leave school books in her room. Take ALL of her precious clothing OUT of ehr room in garbage bags. Leave her with 7 to 10 outfits - NOT the ones she likes the most. Take out ALL electronic anythings. No computer, radio, stereo, cell phone, mp3 player. NOTHING.

    Take out her makeup and nail stuff. Take out her purses and accessories. Leave ONE pair of shoes, and MAYBE one pair of sandals.

    You are going to take out all the stuffed animals, most if not all of the books, all other stuff.

    She has been headed this way for quite a while now. It is NOT new. She just isn't hiding it as well as she was. Remember how you felt when you caught her with the boy?

    You will have to lock her stuff up somewhere. I recommend a storage unit or maybe somewhere at husband's restaurant, if he has any storage you can use there. If you have to keep it at home then put a strong lock on the door to the room.

    She needs a big shock. If she pulled this stunt on any job they would fire her. Depending on what she cheated on she could even be charged with a crime. Especially if she has the same lack of regard for the company's money that she has for the school.

    To me this is a FAR bigger deal than the boy incident. Too many things like this in her school file could keep her out of a good college. And even this in her file could keep her from many scholarships to college or trade school programs.

    Decide what she will have to do to EARN back "her" things. Remember, she is NOT an adult. She does NOT own "her" stuff. Not in any way, shape, or form. so she has little recourse if you decide to lock it up.

    I do NOT think letting school handle an offense this big will work. She is DYING to get a reaction from you. That is the payoff, you yelling and screaming. She may have felt difficult child gets all your time and attention.

    This is NOT the way to get your time and attention. Her escapades are only going to get bigger from here on out unless you can motivate her. A therapist would be good. Maybe she could earn an hour of phone time or radio or whatever for each hour with the therapist THAT SHE PARTICIPATES IN.
  11. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Jena, sweetie........

    I'm not judging you at all. Please believe that. But I've raised 2 teen girls. One difficult child and one easy child. I'm speaking from experience.

    Ok. So daughter has stuffed feelings. (I know how that is, used to do it myself) BUT, and this is important, BUT if you let her disrespect your authority as parent.....you're headed down a mega difficult child road and I don't think you want to go there.

    Sure it's easy for a teen to say they "don't care" when you list off punishments. And they can even look the part. (I swear they get with their friends and practice this carp) And heck, she may even think she means it, too. But once you put into force concequences for her behavior/attitude.....it will be a different story. Hence the "wake up call" Suzie mentioned.

    easy child used to spout not only that she didn't care what I did to her, but that she had nothing for me to take away as she had no life to begin with. (teens are all about drama by the way) Once her phone, computer, after school activities -including sports-, and even her part time job were removed.........and all she got to do was go to and from school period......Well let's just say she held out for about 2 weeks with the big time I don't care/mad at the world attitude.......Third week cracks began to appear in her wall...by the 4 and 5th week attitude was beginning to disappear...although it would rear it's ugly head occasionally.....6th week in.......easy child was back to her old self, except for begging me to lift the punishment. By the 8th week no more begging and she was determined to show me I could trust her again.

    I was tempted to lift it at that point, but stuck to it because I was afraid if I didn't I'd wind back at square 1.

    No you can't make her cooperate with therapy. But you can make her life miserable (as she thinks it is) until she chooses to cooperate.

    This was Nichole. Flat out almost as stubborn as I am. (and that's saying something) She'd refuse to go. I'd tell her she either went willingly or with me dragging her kicking and screaming the whole way, which would probably result in her being admitted somewhere. She went, defiant as hades. Week after week. BUT I told the therapist going in that she wouldn't be conducting sessions with Nichole alone. Half session was with me in there, other half was them alone. Why? Cause Nichole wouldn't open her mouth. So I told therapist what had gone on during the week and started the ball rolling.

    Snarls and snapping teeth......and a terrific therapist who was also the mom of teens....Nichole reluctantly began to talk.

    Maybe it's unconventional. When it comes to my kids I don't care.

    Maybe this isn't the way for you and your easy child. But you've got to sit down and come up with a plan. Then put it into action.

    The way I always saw it was that I was my kids teacher and protector (even from themselves if need be)........whether they hated me for it or not. And later......they really don't. :)

  12. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Lisa is SO RIGHT.

    This is going to take major commitment to follow through on your part Jen. But you have lived as a single mom of a difficult child so I KNOW you can do it.

    In the past you have mentioned how she goes to a school in a well off area, with kids who have more money to spend on clothes. You were reluctant to take her clothes and stuff them because she had you feeling guilty you couldn't provide her with all the things her friends and classmates had. It was understandable as long as she was a easy child.

    The privileges should leave since the easy child behavior left. And should STAY gone a couple of weeks after the easy child behaviors come back. It can be the ONLY way to get through to a kid, esp in the grip of those hideous teen hormones!

    Plan out what you are doing. Make sure it has some serious WOW factor going on. You want her mad, reacting. Until now you have been reacting to HER actions. If you want any chance at not spending the next however many years dealing with difficult child-ish behaviors from her then you will start being proactive and let her do the reacting.

    And the more over the top her reactions, the more you know your actions are reaching her!

    Some way, some how, this behavior needs to be tamed. Otherwise NO ONE will have a decent life in your home and whatever your relationship with boyfriend is now she will only destroy it. MAke sure you and boyfriend are on the same page - or at least that he knows how to not undermine what you are doing.

    She has escalated this to the point she could damage her chances at further education. I don't think you want to see how much farther she can push you.

    Know we support you. Get boyfriend and your female friends on your side. You also might find help and/or inspiration from the book Parenting your Teen with Love adn Logic.

    Many hugs!
  13. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    This was me at age 16. I was and am a easy child type but I went through a period where I really rebelled against my mother because I didn't respect her or her life. All teens go through that to some degree, but my mom's life was a shambles at that time--after a painful divorce and all it's aftermath I also had to deal with my parents mental health issues, difficult child brother who was giving the family a lot of problems, live-in boyfriend we kids all hated, serious money problems, etc. I think back on it now as situational difficult child-ness but really the rebellion is what enabled me to survive in an otherwise unhealthy and dysfunctional family environment. I'm NOT saying my/my mother's situation is you/your daughter's but I can understand why a easy child daughter would suddenly change because it happened to me. When I got old enough to understand (or at least think I did), I started to fight back because I'd had enough of the mess and I wanted a different life. It was like thrashing around in the water trying to save myself from drowning in it.

    I can't tell you what to do but I would let the school take care of the testing. Honestly I don't think therapy would have helped me at that point. I just needed to get out of there and get on with my life.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
  14. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    So, the past 3 or 4 years you have seen little signs of typical teen attitude, but now you are seeing the full force of it. There very well may be something specific bothering her and very well could use a therapist. However, most teens probably could use that and most will resist it.

    In fact, she is probably going to resist anything that is YOUR idea now. That is typical teen attitude. The 'ihateyous' are coming soon. Put on your warrior armor and make clear the rules and stick to them. However, it is time to re-evaluate what a 16 year old's responsibilities and rules should be. I found myself continuing the rules and not adjusting for age, once I did things got a bit easier.

    She should have chores and a curfew time that is appropriate for a 16 year old. Have her homework done before going anywhere, etc. Has she gotten her driving permit yet?
  15. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I so agree with the others. You can not give into her by thinking that she is so messed up and it is all your fault and if only you handled it different...blah blah blah.

    Crack down now. She doesnt get to verbally attack you just because she got caught cheating on a test. She doesnt get to decide your divorce was all your fault or you dont parent correctly or anything else for that matter. She is just spewing venom to keep you off center.

    I had the same problem you are having about enforcing punishment while working. Cory refused to stay grounded while I worked. I hated it when people told me...well...just ground him...If he does A, tell him he cant go out and be with friends for a week. I couldnt enforce that because I worked at least a 40 week plus drive time. How on earth do you make them stay in the house without chaining them? If they would stay inside they arent difficult child's...LOL. I got creative. I took things away. I knew he would be in school...well I hoped he would ...so I took the power chords for all TV, computer, phones and any other electronic devices with me to work. I had the fishing poles and guns locked up. I left a few books that he really liked on his bed. I took all his shoes except one pair. I called all his friends and told their moms he wasnt allowed over.

    Then if I found out that he HAD gone out anyway...when I got home from work, he got no dessert that night, we ignored him, he wasnt allowed in the living room with us, he had to stay in his room all night.
  16. eekysign

    eekysign New Member

    I think a lot of it depends on how you've disciplined her in the past - not saying she doesn't deserve it, but from experience of being an older easy child living with a younger difficult child, if my Mom had punished my typical teen-esque behavior by elevating my punishments to the same as the difficult child (stripping my room down as a good example), I think it might have done some serious damage to our relationship....maybe even permanently. At that age, I was definitely learning to develop an adult relationship with my family, and yeah, there was a boatload of sullen, boundry-pushing, angry Eeky wandering around. But I would have been JUSTIFIED in my "my parents are dumb and annoying" carp, if they'd done something that drastic. I dunno. Just my opinion, I guess I worry about treating even somewhat typical teen behavior the same way we treat difficult child behavior..... :( Wish I knew what the answer was, though.

    However.....is this a punishment you've used before on her? That would definitely make it easier for her to accept. I guess what I'm saying is that to go from groundings and "you're losing TV for two nights, young lady!" type punishments to stripping her room of everything but a bed might be a bit too much for a 16 yr/old mostly-easy child to take. But if she already KNEW those consequences were a possibility, then hey, go for it.

    Just my two cents as an erstwhile easy child. :)
  17. eekysign

    eekysign New Member

    I feel ya. A lot of my anger as a teen was related to the anger/tension in the household due to Sis. She was really out of control scary when I was 16 or so, plus my stepbrothers were (although not living at home) making big waves, too. The older one had just had his full schizophrenia hit, and the younger was using, and kept getting arrested. I just wanted to have a "normal" life where there wasn't so much darn stress. Coming home from a rough day of school, and having home be a nightmare, too - that was rough.

    For Jena's easy child, living in a "haunted" house, the mice, having a little difficult child, etc, etc...that's a big load on a teen. Jena, has she done anything that indicates maybe this is part of it?
  18. Jena

    Jena New Member

    wow thanks you guys so much info. i have to take time later to read through it all. i have contacted a few friends that are therapists. she's been in bed all day long and hasnt' moved an inch other than to attack difficult child when she offered her a donut and me.

    i do agree that she cannot curse me out and i told her so. i said this behavior will not be tolerated in my home by you. bottom line you can be upset, hurt, whatever even mad at me for life choices i made that affected you, hence my divorce and another biggie her not knowing her biological dad. yet at the end of the day i will help you learn how to express it the right way so we can get through this because i cannot and will not live under seige of a 16 year old.

    i think she's depressed to be honest, my friends think so as well hence the irritability and anger.

    no, she tells me she loves this house, and i have Occupational Therapist (OT) leave i'm the problem not hte mice or the ghost that luckily has calmed down (he probably couldnt take it here lol).

    therapist told me there is a fine line when a kid is in i dont' care mode, you can do the tough love approach yet they dont' care and hence nothing touches them.

    i already shut her cell down via the website for my carrier last night which was probably the reason for today's attack on me. i'm not even in work this week, becaues i can't trust her with difficult child at this point who is hurting from this. boyfriend and i are on the edge due to this new pressure, we already have 4 kids with other junk. my ptsd is kicking up awful from this so i'm scheduling appointment for therapy to get my coping skills back in place now i need it. managing the ptsd without medications is a struggle on certain days.

    and with all these presssures now a xanax is looking real good
  19. Jena

    Jena New Member

    a xanax and a beer, prefferably corona :) i know, real healthy
  20. Jena

    Jena New Member

    janet i totally see your point. im just treading lightly right now till friday night comes and difficult child leaves. i dont' want difficult child seeing what she does to me, it's worse than difficult child has ever done.

    i get it, yup it may be my fault, yet disrespect cannot be tolerated. certainly not on the level where i get in my truck and get lost headed to appointment and throw up becaue of her words. i gave her life bottom freaking line, cared for her, fed her, do alot for her. maybe someday she'll get that. maybe she wont'. yet i know i give it 100% almost everyday