Okey dokey then...

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Robinboots, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    ...how do you kick out a kid who is never home, won't answer his phone, and leaves you hanging on FB messaging? No wonder kids break up their romantic relationships via text and messaging and FB...sheesh.

    Seriously, though, advice?
     
  2. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Since he's not responding? text, leave a voice mail and a facebook message - "You have until {X day} to arrange with ME to come get your stuff or I'm throwing it out. You are no longer welcome in my home."

    I'd think that would qualify as a public notice, hmm? Especially if you post to his WALL.

    Who's paying for the cell phone? If you? Turn it off. HIS responsibility, now.
     
  3. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    Oh, he pays for his cell - as of 3 days prior to his 18th birthday. He also nominally pays his car insurance, pretty sure it's past due; and we put that POS car in his name, telling him he had to pay us back - he's made one $300 payment, instead of the $1600 he SHOULD have paid by now. He also is two weeks late on his "rent" which we were going to save for him to actually move out...and the contract he signed said that he could be evicted without notice for numerous reasons. Since he's 18, and legally culpable, oh well....

    Still trying to wrap my brain around an IM or message for this though. I keep telling myself I've been MORE than fair, but I still have doubts.
     
  4. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Of course you have doubts!!! You're a MOM!!!

    Hugs...
     
  5. Mom2oddson

    Mom2oddson Active Member

    He's not answering hoping that you will feel guilty and change your mind. If he knows already that you want to kick him out, pack up all his stuff and put it in the garage. Give him a dead-line date to pick it up or it goes to the curb.

    I know when I packed up Ant's things, then Steph's things, it was good for me. It was me claiming my house and life back.
     
  6. elizabrary

    elizabrary Member

    Don't doubt yourself. I told my daughter she had until x date to get her stuff- then I would sell what I could and throw out the rest. She didn't test me. I would IM him and leave a message. Also, if you don't want him in the house when you are not there then change the locks. This stuff used to sound harsh to me too. But I try to make it like a business transaction- no emotion. Here are the terms, very matter of factly. If they try to argue or yell you have to hang up or walk away. Stick to what you tell him or you will lose all credibility. These kids don't understand anything but the bottom line. So lay it down and stick to it.
     
  7. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Change the locks, text message him, and call the cops if he shows up demanding to be let in.
     
  8. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    All good advice, and we'll see how it goes. Naturally, he came home last night, at a reasonable time after getting off work. Another thing I should mention is this: I do have an RO against him. It happened last May, when he kept coming over and demanding money and finally, the last time, refusing to leave and blocking the door so *I* couldn't leave either. This is one reason he was all over the place from May-November. Then, in Nov., he got kicked out of the place he was staying, with his former foster parents, and after a couple days of hanging out on the streets he called me and asked to come home.

    husband and I agreed, and these were difficult child's conditions:

    Enroll in, and attend, 15 hours of college classes; at the end of the semester you will have options such as military, EMT school, or continuing college.
    Get a job.
    Get your own cell phone/plan when you turn 18.
    Pay us for the car and repairs; $1000 when you get your school refund, and $300 a month.
    Be respectful, no violence, follow the rules, be a part of the family, curfew after work/midnight.
    Pay rent, which we'll hold for you until you move out, $300 a month.

    I typed up two agreements, which he signed after he turned 18, one for the car and one for rent.

    He enrolled in school, got his refund, and blew it. No $1000 for us. He has been kicked out of two classes for never attending, as of two weeks ago, maybe the others by now. At the very least, he's down to 9 hours, have never seen him study or even seen his books, etc. He did make one payment for the car, out of two, and his first rent payment is two weeks overdue. No violence, but way less than respectful, staying out till all hours, overnight many nights, lying about everything, partying all the time (not here). He did get a job, two in fact, but not sure he still has one of them; and he did get his own cell. Pretty sure that his car insurance is past due, tho. And yes, we put the car in his name right off the bat so we couldn't be held responsible for anything.
     
  9. elizabrary

    elizabrary Member

    If you don't enforce the agreement he has not reason to stick to it. Literally, with these kids if you let one small infraction go by they will break another and another. With Kat I have to hold my bottom line, or I can forget it. Even though he came home last night I think you still need to kick him out. Good luck!
     
  10. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Robin, once you allowed difficult child in your home the RO is null and void. It has to be followed by both parties to remain in effect. This little tidbit of info they tend to leave out when you go to get one.

    There is no point in having an agreement if you don't force him to stick to it. Eliza hit the nail on the head. Give a difficult child an inch.......they'll run with it as far as you let them.

    The hardest thing to do as the parent of an adult child is to switch your thinking from I need to take care of and fix stuff for this person.......to this is an adult who needs to learn to make his own decisions, the right decisions, and I can no longer take care of him or fix it for him.

    Most of us walk a tight wire of how much help is too much and have to decide for ourselves what we're willing to do and not do, what behaviors we will and will not tolerate with our grown kids. Because while they may still be immature ect.......society says their adults and we have no say so in what they do.

    hugs
     
  11. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    I don't think I've done much, but maybe too much, to "fix" things for him. We did allow him to come back home, under certain conditions; we did pay for the car - it's a real POS, but it was the one he wanted and husband checked it out. Long story there, *I* wouldn't have bought it, lol! And you all are right, give him an inch...oh, he knows how to play me alright. I'm not worried about the RO, but there was a story recently here how a woman allowed her adult daughter to spend the night, the daughter stole her car in the morning and sold all the kids' Christmas gifts for drugs. Daughter was arrested for, among many other things, violating the RO. Anyway, I'm not using that to get him to leave, although if it comes down to it he probably doesn't know the law anyway....

    I MUST DO THIS. In spite of his coming home, in spite of his being pleasant during the whole whopping 15 minutes we were in the house together this morning. He left in pajamas, said his work clothes were at a friend's, and I started thinking: huh, wonder how that happpened, when was the last time he worked this job, when was the last time he said he was at this friend's house...and I said to myself - WAIT A MINUTE! You can't believe anything he says...so why bother to think about it?
     
  12. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    If he had made that deal with a car lot they would have repossessed that car long ago.

    As others have said - if you're going to draw up a contract you must, must, must enforce the terms of the contract.

    Change the locks immediately.

    AFTER you have had the locks changed, text and FB him that he has been evicted under the terms of your agreement. Include the message that you will sell his stuff to cover his debts of $x amount.

    Do not continue to pay for anything and make darn sure he doesn't have any credit or debit card or bank account info that he (or a pal) could make use of illegally.

    If you like you can even put a notice in the newspaper. Our paper now publishes the entire thing online as well as in print.

    If you feel you still need an RO then spend some time finding out if you have to petition for a new one or if there's some kind of process that will re-instate the previous one.

    Patricia
     
  13. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    So here's what went down:

    He said he was going to clean out his car; next thing I saw, he left. For an hour. Came back as I was leaving to pick up easy child and stop for groceries, and I told difficult child to be here when I got back at 3:30. husband was going to be here then, and difficult child had said he was working at 5. I had a plan: to tell difficult child, with husband backing me up, that his lifestyle was not compatible with ours, that he had no respect for anyone in this family, and that he'd gone back on every agreement we had. Therefore, he had to find another place to live. By this weekend.

    I expected lots of drama, cussing, etc. Maybe even violence. Who knows?

    But what actually happened:

    I got home, husband was a few minutes away. difficult child came out of his room and announced that he'd been "called in to work" again - happens all the time, yeah, right. I said, no, you're working at 5, Dad and I have to talk to you. And he said: Dammit, I have to go work.


    I said: well, do you have my rent? Not yet. Do you have my car payment? Not yet - very belligerent.

    And he said: oh, so you're kicking me out?

    And I said: well, I really wouldn't call it that, but your lifestyle is not compatible with ours, you have no respect for anyone in this family, and you've gone back on every agreement we had. Therefore,you have to find another place to live. One where you set your own rules, or have no rules, or can abide by other rules.

    And he said "fine". And I said: by this weekend. And he said what????????? Fine.

    And he left for "work". And then husband got home.
     
  14. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Boots -

    I believe I would treat it like any other agreement - Follow up with a written letter of HERE YA GO - and in thus fashion:

    Enroll in, and attend, 15 hours of college classes; at the end of the semester you will have options such as military, EMT school, or continuing college.
    Get a job.
    Get your own cell phone/plan when you turn 18.
    Pay us for the car and repairs; $1000 when you get your school refund, and $300 a month.
    Be respectful, no violence, follow the rules, be a part of the family, curfew after work/midnight.
    Pay rent, which we'll hold for you until you move out, $300 a month.

    I typed up two agreements, which he signed after he turned 18, one for the car and one for rent.

    He enrolled in school, got his refund, and blew it. No $1000 for us. He has been kicked out of two classes for never attending, as of two weeks ago, maybe the others by now. At the very least, he's down to 9 hours, have never seen him study or even seen his books, etc. He did make one payment for the car, out of two, and his first rent payment is two weeks overdue. No violence, but way less than respectful, staying out till all hours, overnight many nights, lying about everything, partying all the time (not here). He did get a job, two in fact, but not sure he still has one of them; and he did get his own cell. Pretty sure that his car insurance is past due, tho. And yes, we put the car in his name right off the bat so we couldn't be held responsible for anything.


    Dear Mr. Boots:

    Per our written; attached agreement dated (insert date) there were certain non-negotiable conditions which were part of arrangement for you to continue to live in our residence. We feel that you have been given several opportunities to fulfill your portion of this agreement, and have clearly either taken advantage of our hospitality or not taken this agreement seriously. There is still the matter of the $1000.00 you owe us for the XX Vehicle and that loan is still due and payable to us. It is therefore been decided that you are to vacate the premesis (immediately, within 3 days, by XX date - you choose whatever here). This will be your final and only warning. Choosing to ignore this warning will result in your possessions being donated to an organization of our choice or simply being disposed of. Should you wish to return to these premesis you will be required to call in advance to collect your belongings and for any further visits otherwise it will be considered trespassing.

    Signed -
    this xx day of 2011

    (enclosed copy of original agreement outlining original terms not met)

    Something like that?

    I dunno -
     
  15. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    Sounds good - suppose I should make it "official", that way there are no questions. Oh, but there will be questions, and accusations, and more lies, and who knows what else!

    At the moment, I'm studying for two finals tomorrow morning...and I keep replaying the scene, which was a scene suprisingly, and wondering if:

    A) Did I do the right thing?
    B) Will he retaliate?

    I have the door locked, but of course he has a key...it's getting dark...husband and easy child went to dinner so I could study...I do have my purse/keys sitting in the garage and I'm in the office, right next to the door to that garage. Am wondering if I should stay up all night? Or just lock the bedroom doors....

    And, of course, I'm feeling horrible about this, remembering when he was a little boy, and a baby and toddler. Before all this **** started...and even a few weeks ago when he brought me flowers for Valentine's Day. I am a rotten mother.
     
  16. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    Um. I would attempt to remove from your communications with him any language that could be taken as judgmental or emotional. Think business letter. In a business transaction people don't say things like we feel you haven't or you've taken advantage of - at least as a general rule.

    When it's a written contract and one party has failed to fulfill the terms of the agreement then that's what's said along with a statement about the remedy or consequence for failure to fulfill the contract. Hopefully those consequences were spelled out in the agreement.

    For example:

    Dear so and so,

    This is your first and only notice regarding your eviction from the premises located at 111 ABC street, anywhere, usa.

    You have failed to fulfill the terms of the contract you signed on XYZ date (see attached copy of agreement). Under the terms of the agreement, failure to meet your obligations will result in your eviction from the premises.

    Therefore you have until March 5, 2011 at 5 pm (or whatever your local/state ordinances require as the minimum time for an eviction notice to take effect unless you had the foresight to spell it out in the agreement) to remove your belongings including car, furniture, clothes (whatever he has that belongs to him in your eyes) from the premises. Either (names) or (names) must be present and approve the removal of your belongings from the premises. You must notify (names) at least X hours in advance of the time you expect to remove your belongings.

    The locks will be changed tomorrow at 8 am. After that you will have to make arrangements with (names) in order to enter or leave the premises.

    If you fail to remove your belongings by XXX date/time then those belongings will be donated or sold or stored at our discretion. Any money generated by the sale of your belongings will be used to reduce your debt under the agreement.

    Any attempt to retrieve your belongings after March 5, 2011 at 5 pm may be treated as trespassing.

    Any future visits to the premises must be arranged in advance with either (names) or (names) with at least 24 hours notice or your presence on the property may be treated as trespassing. Visits to the premises after March 5, 2011 will be at the sole discretion of (names).

    Regarding your debts under the agreement.

    As of (today's date) you owe us:

    $1000 loan on XYZ car at 0% interest (did you happen to list yourselves as lienholders on the car registration? If not, should the car get impounded and sold then you won't get anything from it so you may want to find out about doing this. If it's an old car that isn't worth much then I wouldn't bother.)

    $600 two months rent

    (If you didn't spell out what was going to happen with the debt in the agreement you may want to forgive the debt at this point or use different language than what follows)

    You have two options.

    1. Monthly repayment schedule

    Amount: Monthly payments of $100
    Due date and late payment date: Due by the 10th of each month and late if not paid by the 30th of each month
    Repayment period: 16 months
    Repayment starts: First payment due April 10, 2011, late after April 30
    Form of payment and method of delivery: Payment in the form of cashier's check or money order must be delivered by US mail unless advance arrangements have been made for personal delivery of your payment. Under no circumstances will a personal check from you or anyone else be accepted.
    Non-payment: If you fail to make 2 payments on time during the period of the repayment schedule the entire remaining amount of the debt becomes due immediately unless you re-negotiate the terms of this repayment schedule within 30 days of the second missed payment.

    2. Lump sum payments:

    Amount of payments: $400 each
    Number of payments: 4
    Repayment period: 16 months
    Repayment starts: First payment is due June 10, 2011 late after June 30, 2011
    Form of payment and method of delivery: See monthly repayment schedule info
    Non-payment: If you fail to make any lump sum payment the entire remaining amount of the debt becomes due immediately unless you re-negotiate the terms of this repayment schedule within 30 days of the missed payment.

    In either case, should you fail to make the payments or negotiate a new repayment schedule as described above, it is our option to go to small claims court and get a judgment against you for this debt.

    (If you are lienholders on the car you also have the option to say you will repossess the car.)

    We regret the need to take these actions but must do so under the terms of our signed agreement.

    Signed names

    cc: your attorney if you have one, his parole officer if he has one, whoever you think needs a copy of this notice so they know he is being kicked out and will be on his own

    I think it would also be wise to have him sign a paper saying he received this notice on such and such date and have someone who is not a family member witness that he received the letter from you. Or you could pay for a fedex or other signature required delivery to him at his job. Notary publics are good people to turn to for this kind of service and their fees are often quite small - less than fedex. Your bank or other business may offer the service for free if you ask.

    I realize this sounds like a lot of trouble to go to and you may not want to use this format. The important thing is to do your best to explicitly spell out what's going to happen no matter how things go and to get specific about things like what form of payment you will take. The less wiggle room there is the better it is for everyone.

    And of course all of this is pointless if you're not actually willing to follow through. If you don't think you are going to be willing to repossess the car or go to small claims court then don't say you will do that. If you know you aren't going to get tough with him about missed payments then I would just forgive the debt now rather than keep that opportunity for conflict and continued dependency open indefinitely.

    Hugs during this tough time.

    Patricia
     
  17. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    Thanks, Patricia. I've dealt with many legal contracts over the years, so you can be sure it will be to the letter, and airtight as well. And thanks for the hugs...I'm trying really hard not to think about it all too much, and my husband and easy child are home now so I'm relaxing a bit.

    It's just hard to separate what was and what is, and the emotion from what has to be; and I feel so badly for him too, because I keep forgetting that he doesn't care about anyone but himself. Unless, of course, I am completely wrong and he's just really good at hiding his feelings...and maybe he ISN'T manipulating and lying...or maybe............
     
  18. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    Separating is so hard to do. Hang in there.

    Patricia
     
  19. elizabrary

    elizabrary Member

    He IS manipulating and lying. The sooner you accept that the easier dealing with him will be. When I look back now I see my daughter did those things from a very young age, and I always had an excuse for her- usually that she would grow out of it, which she didn't- she grew into it. She got better with practice. I've said this before, but the only way I can deal with the situation is to approach it as a business transaction. I deal with what I HAVE to deal with in regards to Kat and nothing else. When she brings the drama- the tears, screaming, threats- I remove myself from the situation. Start focusing on YOU, rather than your son and it will get easier. I know how hard it is, but I swear if I can do this, anyone can.
     
  20. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    I don't have much drama - but then, my difficult child isn't a girl. Thank heavens - had enough with my older daughter, lol! And she was a easy child...more or less. My difficult child is more into calling me crazy, blaming me for e.v.e.r.y.thing, and trying to garner sympathy from the whole wide world...unfortunately for him, that sympathetic world is shrinking.

    But I hear ya - it doesn't take much for me to have hope that he's REALLY okay, that he's CHANGING, that's he's GROWING UP. And so we continue, and I get upset, and more and more tense. Then just when I decide that he's being a complete tool and HAS to go, for my sanity, for the rest of the family, he starts being "nice" and doing a few things that he should be doing in the first place. So, I think: well, maybe it'll be okay.

    So, long story short, I have to do this, I have done it, and now I have to live with it. I was about to say: I hope he doesn't go back to hanging out with the losers that helped get him to this point - and they did, really, peer pressure is where it's at and all. But, lest anyone think I'm a complete idiot, I know it's not their fault - it's the way HE is, and he's attracted to losers. Not only that, but he's been hanging with them ANYWAY! Ha on me, huh?
     
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