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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 62704" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>G'day. Welcome back. Sorry you had to, but you know we're here.</p><p></p><p>A few things - this sounds partly typical teen and partly what we deal with, with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). The Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) component of having to continually argue about it - these kids can't stop themselves. They will do it, over and over. And punishment doesn't do a darn thing. We've had best results with trying to keep reminding, "You're interrupting again."</p><p></p><p>What works - when they're CALM sitting down and going over the ground rules. GETTING THEIR INPUT. This doesn't mean letting them write the rules, but making sure they have some say in together working out what is reasonable. If you had been able to do this ahead of time, you could have coped better.</p><p>Future suggestion - call comes in after 10 pm and friend has suggested sleeping over at your place to make taking them both to practice in the morning much simpler - I would urge you to ask daughter to put the friend on hold so you can discuss it without risking offending friend with what you have to say (because it's not flattering to friend). A good initial response is, "What a pity she rang after 10 pm - doesn't she know our house rule? Because if she doesn't, three is only one way for her to learn - not give in unless this is a serious emergency (such as her parents have just been carted off to hospital and she needs someone to stay with). ARE her parents on the way to hospital? Then sorry, no. It is not convenient to drive out in the middle of the night to collect a 13 year old who has had some sort of brainwave and wants SOMEONE ELSE'S MOTHER to chase around after her. NOT ON.</p><p></p><p>And back to 'friend' - more convenient FOR WHOM? Yeah, sure, if I had planned to drive daughter to practice, and collect friend on the way to take both of them, then I'd think about what is convenient. However there would have to be a darn good reason for giving in at that late hour, for an idea that should have been proposed much earlier in the evening.</p><p></p><p>And where does either friend or daughter get off, TELLING you to do this? A polite request maybe, which you could meet with, "I'm so sorry darling, but I'm already ready for bed and this really isn't convenient at this late hour." Friend shouldn't ask at such a late hour; do her parents approve of this?</p><p></p><p>Now most kids would back off at this point, but a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid wouldn't (and there are some other conditions with similar problems). They HAVE to thrash it out once it gets in their heads that THIS is the only solution.</p><p></p><p>The only way then, to deal with it from that point - somehow try to show them that this is NOT the only solution, and this is NOT her problem, it is friend's problem. If you were going to be driving daughter to practice anyway in the morning, then for whom is it more convenient? Certainly not for you, unless you were going to collect friend anyway. But if you WERE going to collect friend anyway, then explain to daughter - the convenience she is claiming, would only be YOUR convenience, and it would be balanced adversely by having to get dressed and go out in the middle of the night to collect this girl, then make up a bed for her, settle both girls down (late) knowing they'll chatter under the blankets for far longer than they should, then get both girls fed and moving in the morning.</p><p></p><p>You then get daughter to acknowledge that it's not convenience she's REALLY thinking about, it's having an excuse to unexpectedly have friend in for a last-minute sleepover.</p><p></p><p>After the event - sit down and go through alternate possibilities. Role-play. Swap places, let your daughter be the mother dealing with you (daughter) wanting to have a friend over. When she inevitable says, "Of course you can, darling, I would do anything for you," ask her to make you and your hypothetical friend waffles for breakfast. Only friend can't have shop-bought waffles, she's allergic to preservative, she needs them made up fresh. Keep throwing requests at her, the sort of requests you know your daughter and her friends are likely to use at you. Keep it light, have fun playing each other. Laugh about it, then swap back and get serious. Try to encourage honesty about feelings. If she says she was really angry when you said No, well that is legitimate. We know she was angry. Acknowledge it. Then you say, "I was feeling hurt and taken advantage of, when you asked. It was as if you expect me to always be there as your personal chauffeur, and I can't always do it. I'm older than you, I need my sleep. I do get tired and that's why I brought in that rule. We shouldn't be having arguments at 10 pm. If we have this rule and your friends know to not put such requests on you, then we wouldn't have had this argument."</p><p>The main message for her - "I love you, I want to help you do well, but I don't like to feel taken advantage of. Nobody likes that. My job as mother is to love you. Driving you places is a privilege, not a right. It's an optional extra."</p><p></p><p>I really would be digging to find out why you got asked this in the first place. Something is really wrong when a friend rings at 10 pm to ask if she can come and stay AND get chauffered in the morning. It sounds to me like your daughter has become a doormat as well as you.</p><p></p><p>if you can't nip this doormat behaviour in the bud, soon it won't be her friends taking advantage of her, it will be boys. She has to learn NOW how to say no, and that it's OK to say no (and have no said to you) without feeling the world has come to an end.</p><p></p><p>I understand your concern. I would be concerned too. The extreme perseveration is a worry, I'd be talking it over with a health expert and look at other signs of something else not quite right for her. Is she obsessive in other ways? Are there other issues not typically teen?</p><p></p><p>Also, our 'bible' on this site - Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child". There are also other books which people here recommend, but that one might give you some clues as to how to cope. Sometimes trying to be strong and stand up to your kid can actually backfire. There are other ways to get what YOU want, without the explosive behaviour necessarily.</p><p></p><p>And the biggest golden rule of all - never give a punishment that you can't enforce.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 62704, member: 1991"] G'day. Welcome back. Sorry you had to, but you know we're here. A few things - this sounds partly typical teen and partly what we deal with, with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). The Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) component of having to continually argue about it - these kids can't stop themselves. They will do it, over and over. And punishment doesn't do a darn thing. We've had best results with trying to keep reminding, "You're interrupting again." What works - when they're CALM sitting down and going over the ground rules. GETTING THEIR INPUT. This doesn't mean letting them write the rules, but making sure they have some say in together working out what is reasonable. If you had been able to do this ahead of time, you could have coped better. Future suggestion - call comes in after 10 pm and friend has suggested sleeping over at your place to make taking them both to practice in the morning much simpler - I would urge you to ask daughter to put the friend on hold so you can discuss it without risking offending friend with what you have to say (because it's not flattering to friend). A good initial response is, "What a pity she rang after 10 pm - doesn't she know our house rule? Because if she doesn't, three is only one way for her to learn - not give in unless this is a serious emergency (such as her parents have just been carted off to hospital and she needs someone to stay with). ARE her parents on the way to hospital? Then sorry, no. It is not convenient to drive out in the middle of the night to collect a 13 year old who has had some sort of brainwave and wants SOMEONE ELSE'S MOTHER to chase around after her. NOT ON. And back to 'friend' - more convenient FOR WHOM? Yeah, sure, if I had planned to drive daughter to practice, and collect friend on the way to take both of them, then I'd think about what is convenient. However there would have to be a darn good reason for giving in at that late hour, for an idea that should have been proposed much earlier in the evening. And where does either friend or daughter get off, TELLING you to do this? A polite request maybe, which you could meet with, "I'm so sorry darling, but I'm already ready for bed and this really isn't convenient at this late hour." Friend shouldn't ask at such a late hour; do her parents approve of this? Now most kids would back off at this point, but a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid wouldn't (and there are some other conditions with similar problems). They HAVE to thrash it out once it gets in their heads that THIS is the only solution. The only way then, to deal with it from that point - somehow try to show them that this is NOT the only solution, and this is NOT her problem, it is friend's problem. If you were going to be driving daughter to practice anyway in the morning, then for whom is it more convenient? Certainly not for you, unless you were going to collect friend anyway. But if you WERE going to collect friend anyway, then explain to daughter - the convenience she is claiming, would only be YOUR convenience, and it would be balanced adversely by having to get dressed and go out in the middle of the night to collect this girl, then make up a bed for her, settle both girls down (late) knowing they'll chatter under the blankets for far longer than they should, then get both girls fed and moving in the morning. You then get daughter to acknowledge that it's not convenience she's REALLY thinking about, it's having an excuse to unexpectedly have friend in for a last-minute sleepover. After the event - sit down and go through alternate possibilities. Role-play. Swap places, let your daughter be the mother dealing with you (daughter) wanting to have a friend over. When she inevitable says, "Of course you can, darling, I would do anything for you," ask her to make you and your hypothetical friend waffles for breakfast. Only friend can't have shop-bought waffles, she's allergic to preservative, she needs them made up fresh. Keep throwing requests at her, the sort of requests you know your daughter and her friends are likely to use at you. Keep it light, have fun playing each other. Laugh about it, then swap back and get serious. Try to encourage honesty about feelings. If she says she was really angry when you said No, well that is legitimate. We know she was angry. Acknowledge it. Then you say, "I was feeling hurt and taken advantage of, when you asked. It was as if you expect me to always be there as your personal chauffeur, and I can't always do it. I'm older than you, I need my sleep. I do get tired and that's why I brought in that rule. We shouldn't be having arguments at 10 pm. If we have this rule and your friends know to not put such requests on you, then we wouldn't have had this argument." The main message for her - "I love you, I want to help you do well, but I don't like to feel taken advantage of. Nobody likes that. My job as mother is to love you. Driving you places is a privilege, not a right. It's an optional extra." I really would be digging to find out why you got asked this in the first place. Something is really wrong when a friend rings at 10 pm to ask if she can come and stay AND get chauffered in the morning. It sounds to me like your daughter has become a doormat as well as you. if you can't nip this doormat behaviour in the bud, soon it won't be her friends taking advantage of her, it will be boys. She has to learn NOW how to say no, and that it's OK to say no (and have no said to you) without feeling the world has come to an end. I understand your concern. I would be concerned too. The extreme perseveration is a worry, I'd be talking it over with a health expert and look at other signs of something else not quite right for her. Is she obsessive in other ways? Are there other issues not typically teen? Also, our 'bible' on this site - Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child". There are also other books which people here recommend, but that one might give you some clues as to how to cope. Sometimes trying to be strong and stand up to your kid can actually backfire. There are other ways to get what YOU want, without the explosive behaviour necessarily. And the biggest golden rule of all - never give a punishment that you can't enforce. Marg [/QUOTE]
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