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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 66966" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>About her concerns for her friend - I do understand where both you and she are coming from, but 11 pm is NOT the time to be handling it. Daughter should ring the cops if it's that bad; put up with it overnight if it's not. Ringing you or difficult child is NOT helping young friend to handle it, all young friend is doing is passing responsibility over to someone else who it doesn't belong with.</p><p></p><p>HOWEVER - it IS worth talking with, you and difficult child, in the cold light of day. Maybe with friend there, to sort out some sensible options for her. Tell difficult child to set up a REASONABLE time for you all to sit down over milk and cookies (or chocolate and ice cream, depending on how old they think they are) and as you pass round the tub of ice cream and the spoon, thrash out some plans for her. Because the best thing for friend, is to have a plan in place for any one of a number of possible scenarios. But she is NOT to see you as an escape at 11 am, without prior arrangement. That is not the adult way to handle it.</p><p></p><p>A lot of what you need to do is listen, and also stop difficult child from feeling like it's her job to physically rush in and rescue - that actually is not helping. difficult child also has to learn, by experience, that there are other, often better, ways of helping. By at least sitting and talking, you're showing you care and want to see her friend rise above this.</p><p></p><p>Some things to think about, for her friend - is there another family member she can go stay with? Someone her parents would let her stay with while she's still got classes? How old is she? Where does she see her life leading? What are her long-term plans? How does she want to work her way to them? What obstacles does she have to overcome? because if she's old enough to quit school and get a job, finishing school by evening class, it may be another way for her to go. But just because parents are irresponsible, doesn't give her licence to feel that irresponsibility is the adult way to handle things. Flapping hands and being helpless isn't, either.</p><p></p><p>We're in a similar situation at the moment - easy child 2/difficult child 2's close friend (she's coming to the party tomorrow, I'm hoping to at least set up the same sort of meeting with her, organising a later date when I see her tomorrow). This girl is a decent, hard-working, funloving kid whose mother has just thrown hre out. Daughter tried to handle the situation and, I feel, made an immature mistake in dealing with her mother, but now her mother is really being a dill about things. And when I talked to easy child 2/difficult child 2 about what she knew, it sounds like the mother has 'form' for this, she did it to the older daughter and, possibly, also their father. This friend has refused to speak to her father out of loyalty to her mother; I now wonder if that loyalty was misguided. If nothing else, information is needed from her older sister about their dad's side of the story. Sometimes when a father leaves and then makes absolutely no contact for years, the kids blame the dad for ignoring them. But sometimes, it's the mother refusing to pass on messages, letters, gifts etc.</p><p></p><p>The story needs to be straightened out before judgements are made. And this girl needs to get her life on track by working out her REAL priorities, and not expecting to have a mother always there for her. Tragic - but if anyone can do it, this kid can. And who knows? I could be wrong, this kid may have made a monumentally stupid mistake and the mother could be sitting at home wringing her hands over her daughter - teens can really make mountains out of molehills. Melodrama is the order of the day. But a good, solid counselling session over a bucket of ice cream, with an adult who cares - solid gold, for your daughter AND her friend. Even if you come to no firm solution, you have at least listened. Use this meeting to also set up ground rules. She can ring up until a certain time and talk to either you or difficult child (you, if difficult child has lost phone privileges) but after that time, she needs to have another phone number to call.</p><p></p><p>When I was 10 I had two friends, sisters, aged 9 and 12. They apparently lived in a truck which was parked outside the local club. When they were bored with sitting in the truck (and hassling kids walking past for a taste of their candy) they would try and break in to the abandoned house nearby. I tried to help, but was horrified when the younger one smashed a window to get in, instead of picking the lock as I was trying to do.</p><p>I persuaded the older one to join our church kids' choir and she did, for a few weeks - it was something different to do instead of sitting in the truck alone until closing time. But she didn't have a nice dress to wear and people whispered behind their hands. My friend stuck it out for a few weeks then left, saying she didn't want to sing in a stupid old choir anyway. She was extra mean to me for a while, but I kept being friends until my mother made me stop, I was getting a bad reputation like them. After that I wasn't allowed to stay and talk around the truck but I did talk to the older girl at school. Then she got wilder and rougher, I found she began to avoid me. Then we moved out of the district.</p><p></p><p>These days there would be more intervention. Back then, I didn't understand as much as I do now. The girls made light of having to wait in the truck for their parents. Who knows? Maybe a few years later they might have made it sound more dramatic - whatever works for your audience. But talking it out with an adult would have helped them, at some level, I'm sure. Instead of being shunned and not supported in even tiny ways.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes you can try to help and get burned - a young girl who lived over the road from us would sometimes get dropped off by her mother so she could have breakfast with us and then walk to school. Her mother wouldn't let her stay in their house alone - I later found out why. The girl was saving up to run away from the violence and the abuse, and would steal. her mother's reaction to the theft - "You horrible little thief! If I catch you at it again I'll cut your fingers off!"</p><p>The girl was locked out of the house one rainy day, broke into our house to get out of the rain. She cut her way through the screens, left footprints & fingerprints everywhere. I didn't know who it was, so I called the police at evidence of a break-in. Later the girl confessed. She also ono other occasions would wander in to our house when we were home but busy and empty out any wallet she could grab. We'd find the empty wallet thrown behind a couch, when the wallet never left the briefcase and certainly was never left unfastened or even dropped on the floor. Other people warned us as well. She later was removed from her parents and we bumped into her a year or so later, with her foster family. She seemed very happy with them, said she was doing well and they seemed to be very fond of her.</p><p></p><p>I was never able to help her much. I'm glad someone did.</p><p></p><p>Good luck with this one. I hope whatever you do, you can resolve things so your daughter can see there is a reasonable, rational way to handle these situations and to NOT just bulldoze in. But at 12... tricky. I recommend hokey pokey flavour, and three spoons maybe.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 66966, member: 1991"] About her concerns for her friend - I do understand where both you and she are coming from, but 11 pm is NOT the time to be handling it. Daughter should ring the cops if it's that bad; put up with it overnight if it's not. Ringing you or difficult child is NOT helping young friend to handle it, all young friend is doing is passing responsibility over to someone else who it doesn't belong with. HOWEVER - it IS worth talking with, you and difficult child, in the cold light of day. Maybe with friend there, to sort out some sensible options for her. Tell difficult child to set up a REASONABLE time for you all to sit down over milk and cookies (or chocolate and ice cream, depending on how old they think they are) and as you pass round the tub of ice cream and the spoon, thrash out some plans for her. Because the best thing for friend, is to have a plan in place for any one of a number of possible scenarios. But she is NOT to see you as an escape at 11 am, without prior arrangement. That is not the adult way to handle it. A lot of what you need to do is listen, and also stop difficult child from feeling like it's her job to physically rush in and rescue - that actually is not helping. difficult child also has to learn, by experience, that there are other, often better, ways of helping. By at least sitting and talking, you're showing you care and want to see her friend rise above this. Some things to think about, for her friend - is there another family member she can go stay with? Someone her parents would let her stay with while she's still got classes? How old is she? Where does she see her life leading? What are her long-term plans? How does she want to work her way to them? What obstacles does she have to overcome? because if she's old enough to quit school and get a job, finishing school by evening class, it may be another way for her to go. But just because parents are irresponsible, doesn't give her licence to feel that irresponsibility is the adult way to handle things. Flapping hands and being helpless isn't, either. We're in a similar situation at the moment - easy child 2/difficult child 2's close friend (she's coming to the party tomorrow, I'm hoping to at least set up the same sort of meeting with her, organising a later date when I see her tomorrow). This girl is a decent, hard-working, funloving kid whose mother has just thrown hre out. Daughter tried to handle the situation and, I feel, made an immature mistake in dealing with her mother, but now her mother is really being a dill about things. And when I talked to easy child 2/difficult child 2 about what she knew, it sounds like the mother has 'form' for this, she did it to the older daughter and, possibly, also their father. This friend has refused to speak to her father out of loyalty to her mother; I now wonder if that loyalty was misguided. If nothing else, information is needed from her older sister about their dad's side of the story. Sometimes when a father leaves and then makes absolutely no contact for years, the kids blame the dad for ignoring them. But sometimes, it's the mother refusing to pass on messages, letters, gifts etc. The story needs to be straightened out before judgements are made. And this girl needs to get her life on track by working out her REAL priorities, and not expecting to have a mother always there for her. Tragic - but if anyone can do it, this kid can. And who knows? I could be wrong, this kid may have made a monumentally stupid mistake and the mother could be sitting at home wringing her hands over her daughter - teens can really make mountains out of molehills. Melodrama is the order of the day. But a good, solid counselling session over a bucket of ice cream, with an adult who cares - solid gold, for your daughter AND her friend. Even if you come to no firm solution, you have at least listened. Use this meeting to also set up ground rules. She can ring up until a certain time and talk to either you or difficult child (you, if difficult child has lost phone privileges) but after that time, she needs to have another phone number to call. When I was 10 I had two friends, sisters, aged 9 and 12. They apparently lived in a truck which was parked outside the local club. When they were bored with sitting in the truck (and hassling kids walking past for a taste of their candy) they would try and break in to the abandoned house nearby. I tried to help, but was horrified when the younger one smashed a window to get in, instead of picking the lock as I was trying to do. I persuaded the older one to join our church kids' choir and she did, for a few weeks - it was something different to do instead of sitting in the truck alone until closing time. But she didn't have a nice dress to wear and people whispered behind their hands. My friend stuck it out for a few weeks then left, saying she didn't want to sing in a stupid old choir anyway. She was extra mean to me for a while, but I kept being friends until my mother made me stop, I was getting a bad reputation like them. After that I wasn't allowed to stay and talk around the truck but I did talk to the older girl at school. Then she got wilder and rougher, I found she began to avoid me. Then we moved out of the district. These days there would be more intervention. Back then, I didn't understand as much as I do now. The girls made light of having to wait in the truck for their parents. Who knows? Maybe a few years later they might have made it sound more dramatic - whatever works for your audience. But talking it out with an adult would have helped them, at some level, I'm sure. Instead of being shunned and not supported in even tiny ways. Sometimes you can try to help and get burned - a young girl who lived over the road from us would sometimes get dropped off by her mother so she could have breakfast with us and then walk to school. Her mother wouldn't let her stay in their house alone - I later found out why. The girl was saving up to run away from the violence and the abuse, and would steal. her mother's reaction to the theft - "You horrible little thief! If I catch you at it again I'll cut your fingers off!" The girl was locked out of the house one rainy day, broke into our house to get out of the rain. She cut her way through the screens, left footprints & fingerprints everywhere. I didn't know who it was, so I called the police at evidence of a break-in. Later the girl confessed. She also ono other occasions would wander in to our house when we were home but busy and empty out any wallet she could grab. We'd find the empty wallet thrown behind a couch, when the wallet never left the briefcase and certainly was never left unfastened or even dropped on the floor. Other people warned us as well. She later was removed from her parents and we bumped into her a year or so later, with her foster family. She seemed very happy with them, said she was doing well and they seemed to be very fond of her. I was never able to help her much. I'm glad someone did. Good luck with this one. I hope whatever you do, you can resolve things so your daughter can see there is a reasonable, rational way to handle these situations and to NOT just bulldoze in. But at 12... tricky. I recommend hokey pokey flavour, and three spoons maybe. Marg [/QUOTE]
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