OMG, his plan is to return here...

[Scent of Cedar *]

Because I am in a similar place, I am absolutely blocked about why our sons deliberately want to hurt us.

It is the addiction or the illness, Copa. Just as Albatross posted for us, we live in the rabbit hole now. Nothing is going to make rational sense.

Nothing.

They don't want to hurt us, Copa. When the addiction is beat and our children come back to us, if they ever do, their remorse at what they've done to us can eat them alive, hollow them out, and leave them prone to readdicting.

So, we have to be ready, we have to have exquisite timing and sensitivity, to tell the difference between our children, addicted, and our children, coming back.

It's a balancing act.

On a razor's edge.

But that's okay. We are doing what is there for us to do. We are flexible, not rigid. We are seeing though our mother hearts, and through the eyes of our allies, here on the site.

So, we are prepared, or are gathering our tools, or are somewhere in that process that gets to be comfortably balanced on a razor's edge.

We do that.

We are amazing.

You are, too. Just look at you, not even flinching, not even hiding away from it.

Good, good work, Copa.

Courage and heart and unflinching bravery.

Sucks to go through it, though. I'm sorry he treated you that way, Copa. I think we have to hear them, but we need to learn to listen through our wise and wary mom perceptions. Then you can hear it: That was not my son. That was his addiction.

I see you.

I see you back. Let go of my son.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Me too. I turned into prey, unfortunately.

Me, too.

Done is done. But I am wiser, now. Little goofy, little on the unbalanced side sometimes, but oh, so much wiser, now.

I see you.

I see you back.

And in that time when I was so lost, in that time when I was bereft, was so lost in my suffering, was so focused on my child...you betrayed me.

I am still standing.

That leaves only you. Only you, alone now with only your betrayal to comfort you.

I will never believe in you, will never trust you or anyone like you, again.

I win.

Cedar

Here is something spooky:

"I have been woman
for a long time.

Beware my smile.

I am treacherous with old magic
and the noon's new fury."

I forgot where that came from.

 

[Tanya M]

I'm not ready to believe they do this to us as a deliberate act. I still think/hope that it's the mental illness/drugs talking. Out of desperation maybe? Say anything to get us to pay attention?

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to this.

I think there are times that they do want to hurt us deliberately. I think this comes from the "child" in them, the one that always counts on mommy or daddy to make everything ok and when we don't they lash out. When we gain enough strength to start saying no to their requests, they play on our emotions, they know where the soft spots are. This is when they ramp it up and make those desperate pleas; they are going to starve or freeze to death, or they threaten suicide. They are hurting so they want us to hurt with them since we are not going to "make it all better"

Then, there are drugs that alter their thinking and personalities. They lash out at us because they are high or because they are coming down and crashing.

There's also mental illness, where they are not keenly aware of the harm and hurt they cause.

Which ever one a Difficult Child is operating from does not make it any easier when we the parent are on the receiving end of their hurtfulness. We have to develop a skin of armor to deflect what they can throw at us. We have to do what we can to guard our hearts as to not let what they say or do pierce them.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I forgot to add that I have been taking Tai Chi classes for six years, and that I volunteer in an art gallery.

Now you know everything.

:O)

Cedar

 

[blackgnat]

Phone call today: (his words in italics)

Mom, when are you coming out here for a visit?

(I tell him the tentative dates).

I want you to see how desperately I'm living. I want you to spend 24 no 36 hours with me , just to see what state I'm in and how much I need help. I am actually leaning towards more of a life of crime because I am so desperate.

What kind of crime? (why did I ask?)

I'm breaking into cars and hoping I can get arrested and then go to jail, so then, the state will load up my card while I'm in jail and I will have money when I get to Illinois.
I need to know that you will give me a ride back to Illinois so that I can get my medications and get my life back in order.

Do you have a bed?

No, but they have a transitional program (at the worst mission) and I think I can get in there and then transfer to the other mission which I'm willing to go to, because I know what it's like.

Well I think that you will do exactly the same in Illinois that you are doing in Colorado.

I don't see any change in your behavior. You will be relying on me to pull you out of situations you create.

No, I have learned a lot in jail. I am not going to ask you for help. I won't even contact you.

But you want me to give you a free ride back to Illinois?

Yes, I know that's asking for help, but when we get there, you just drop me where I need to go and then you won't hear from me again.

What about the 3 a.m. calls? From the ER, from a friend who wouldn't help you? When you don't know where the hell you are?

That's not going to happen. I've learned a lot.

So are you going to come out here and give me a ride back to Illinois?

"No, I don't think I am..."

He called me an obscene name and hung up.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

You did the right thing.

He will push harder now, I think blackgnat. Stay close to the site.

Cedar

 

[blackgnat]

I've given it a lot more thought, (sadly, precipitated by the possibility of Difficult Child moving back out here) and realize that I need to either make a one way drive to Colorado and settle there (happy to do that) or, if I am REALLY on an exploratory mission, get a cheap flight out there and see what's available, then drive out (one way) with my few meager possessions and settle.

Whether Difficult Child still wants to be back in Illinois after that, is NOT going to be my concern.

I REALLY want to give this, "living how I actually want to live" idea a try. Came to California from England and adored it-we were transferred all over the place-but always wanted to return there. So Colorado is definitely a step in the right direction!

But sadly and maybe cowardly, I want to not be where my Difficult Child is...unless he wants to be clean and sober out west with/near me...

 

[Iwantpeace]

I forgot the part about going back to school. This was after the first therapist. I had no way to answer those questions: Was I stupid in some way I couldn't see, that I couldn't save my own child? Was I evil. Was I evil like my mother, evil in that same way.

And is that why this happened, with that first therapist.

Something really bad about me.

So, I chose an exclusive Catholic university. Two birds with one stone. If I were stupid, I would learn that. And if I were evil...they would.

And I graduated with honors. I had declared a Nursing Major during my Junior year at that school because I wanted to be of value.

I am a Hospice volunteer. I hold a green belt (which is no big deal, just a beginner's belt) in Okiawan karate. I took many years of ballet classes. I am very into yoga. I love baking and make excellent pastry.

That's pretty much it.

Cedar

I went back into karate about a two weeks ago.

I am thinking about learning dressage riding.

My D H and I are still married. I really don't know how he managed to stay committed to me. He never gave up and so, I came back to him and to our marriage and our life together, and I am grateful for that, too.

I don't much care for my family of origin.

Cedar,
My mouth fell wide open while reading your story. The things you've gone through, I sit here in amazement that you survived it all. Thank you so much for writing all that for me. After reading your story I almost feel guilty for taking up space here and wallering in my self pity. You are a true surviver. I knew I liked you from your writing but now I really feel like you are someone I know. I had a feeling you were into yoga. My best friend of 45 years is a instructor and I could kick myself for never learning it. We have something in common in our field of work. Wow, yoga, karate ,riding? That's awesome and inspirational! I Still cannot believe what you have been through. Thank you for sharing. IWP

 

[Tanya M]

Good job Blackgnat!! You did great.

I want you to see how desperately I'm living. I want you to spend 24 no 36 hours with me , just to see what state I'm in and how much I need help.

My son used this same ploy with me. I told him he was smart enough to help himself. He hung up on me after calling me a nasty name.

I REALLY want to give this, "living how I actually want to live" idea a try.

Yes, Yes, Yes!!!! YOU can do this and should do this.

 

[blackgnat]

I also figure that my Difficult Child knows how to make money and if he is THAT desperate to get back to Illinois (based on the superior caliber of their programs, according to him) then he can get to Illinois on his own steam.

Last week apparently, he bought someone $400 worth of groceries (on his food stamp card) and got $200 cash. Don't know what he did with that cash, but I'd say he could have got a bus ticket to IL, if he really thought it was worth it.

Know what I mean?

 

[BusynMember]

Blackgnat, I am guessing he is already doing the crime that he is talking about, which is why it came to mind. Or maybe he did learn a lot in jail...about crime. I mean, there ARE criminals there. He is still a danger to you. Please remember he almost killed you. He will probably follow you wherever you go. Is it possible not to give him a forwarding address so he can't show up on your doorstep?

Do.not.give.him.a.ride.

Think about it in more detail.

You say something he doesn't like.

You two are stuck in a small car and there is nowhere for you to get away from him.

He can really grab your throat and kill you or he can grab the steering wheel and kill you both. He isn't safe. And don't tell your ex your address either so he won't tell your son. He has no reason to know where you live. You aren't married anymore.

Your son has made no move toward changing his life. He hasn't changed. His behavior when you didn't do what he wanted you to do is proof. Only see him if somebody big and strong is with you. Never in a car.

 

[Copabanana]

I'm breaking into cars and hoping I can get arrested and then go to jail,

First, I do not believe this. Not for one second. This is manipulative and cruel. It may be time to not accept his call.

Last week apparently, he bought someone $400 worth of groceries (on his food stamp card) and got $200 cash. Don't know what he did with that cash

I know what he did with the cash, and so do you. He bought alcohol and/or his drug of choice, rather than food.

He called me an obscene name and hung up.

As Cedar says, he is letting you know exactly who he is right now. He did you a favor. How can you really have tea and crumpets, with somebody that treats you so?

You have nothing more to do in this game right now. All of the moves are his. Your only move is out West. That is what you want. To make the kind of future you want.

I REALLY want to give this, "living how I actually want to live" idea a try.

See. That is exactly what I mean. You know what to do Blackgnat.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I want you to see how desperately I'm living. I want you to spend 24 no 36 hours with me , just to see what state I'm in and how much I need help. I am actually leaning towards more of a life of crime because I am so desperate.

I'm sorry but this is manipulation at its lowest. It screams "FEEL SORRY FOR ME!" and should be given exactly the amount of attention it deserves. None.

 

[pasajes4]

I'm sorry but this is manipulation at its lowest. It screams "FEEL SORRY FOR ME!" and should be given exactly the amount of attention it deserves. None.

Yeppers. Please consider limiting your contact with your son and with his exgf's mother. You need to make plans with a clear head and without people working on your emotions.

 

[tishthedish]

I'm reading along BG and have you on my mind. Every time my sons pull a new stunt I feel like someone has thrown freezing cold water in my face. Like the ALS challenge. The people knew the cold water was coming, they braced for it, but it still startled them. That's me. I always am surprised at their misbehavior. The fact of it and the degree.

In families we know each others secrets and each family member's soft white underbelly. Even as children, we knew our parents' vulnerabilities and our children know ours. Mine have preyed upon my fears and frailties deliberately as a way to manipulate me and confound me. They have illness and addiction, but for them to sucker punch me verbally like they have took thought. It took memory and motive. That happening to me is over. I won't tolerate it. The slightest testiness on their part, or a profanity and I'm out the door, off the phone, rubber hitting the road. I won't let it get to that level ever again. I can't. For me, I can't ever.

One of the things that has helped me so much is Al-Anon. One of their slogans is "Think". Profound, huh? For me it is, because my knee jerk reaction to any of their requests was always sure...even before I knew what it was. And then once I knew, I didn't feel right about going back on my word. It could apply to anything...moving in, cooking, lending money, giving money, babysitting, buying groceries, handing over the car keys, funding a jail account, you name it. Though they had no problem breaking promise after promise to me, no matter how heartfelt they sounded. Like what happened to Lil and Jabber, my sons could also totally ignore me. I was unheeded and unheard. Double the insult. Cue the ice water.

So now I THINK first. BG, you did great refusing him that ride. You thought about it said no. These children of ours will do anything and everything to maneuver their way back into our lives, even if it seems like they don't like us much. There is something warm and familiar about us and with all the chaos they choose to live in, they like to have us close. Even if we suffer. Even if we get sick. Even if we get hurt. Even if we do things to ourselves that are not loving or supportive. Even as we grow weary with age. It's an abomination.

Surprise is our enemy. We have to stay vigilant and alert, lest we think the Storm is over and we can be regular Mommies again.

So many of us have been in the Storm and the FOG for so long now. I have come to the conclusion that I may never be able to mother like I used to. I am grateful that I am a mother and was able to have a family and raise my children in a happy and loving home, but that's what my husband and I chose for our lives. We put our family and their happiness first. What my sons choose for themselves and their children is going to look different. I have to learn to be ok with that. Live and let live. Another Al-Anon slogan.

Given your story, the violence and your son's recent verbal aggression on the phone, BG, you cannot afford to be wrong or make an error in judgement. Not even once. The fact that he invited you to spend "not 24 but 36 hours" living his lifestyle suggests that he's not done with you. You be done with him. He lost his right to demand anything of you when he put you into the ICU. Make a rule for yourself that may help assuage your guilt. You will let him back into your life when he has been clean, sober, self-supporting and self-sufficient to a level that is to be expected of someone of his age FOR TWO CONSECUTIVE YEARS. There. You're not saying never. If he doesn't do it, it's on him. Something tells me you were a great mom for 18+ years. If you can do that, he can give you 2. And still, I can't speak for you, but if my sons had perpetrated that kind of violence on me, I would not trust for a long, long, time. Longer than 2 years. And I would not be alone with them. If I wanted to see them, it would be in public. If you are dreading his coming to town, get a restraining order. Your gut is talking to you and you have to listen. Tell your heart that, in this matter, your gut and your brain get to decide the right course.

Everyone's posted great advice. I would trust these people with my life and often do. Clear your head. Go get the job you want. Move to Colorado. Move to California. You always wanted to go back and it is closer to Colorado than Illinois. Handle yourself with care. Remember that sometimes the definition of heaven is backing away from hell. Just take one step away, then another. You'll be going in the right direction.

 

[recoveringenabler]

I REALLY want to give this, "living how I actually want to live" idea a try. Came to California from England and adored it-we were transferred all over the place-but always wanted to return there. So Colorado is definitely a step in the right direction!

BG, everyone has given you stellar support and advice. What I want to tell you is this, do not wait one more day to go "live the life you've imagined" (as Thoreau said)....... go to Colorado, live your dream, your joy, whatever is in your mind and heart as the next step in your personal adventure. We can wait a lifetime, or often, we can wait too long......and then time has run out.....go live the life you've always wanted to live.....you are retired, you are free, you don't have anyone to answer to, particularly your son. It's said that at the point we are ready to leap into the unknown, the adventure, the next step.....that is when all the bugaboos will show up to tell us, "no not now, wait, you have to take care of this, or that or the other" but you don't. You did all of that already. It is your time. It is your dream, go grab it and run towards it........make those plans that bring that joy to your heart......do it now........

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Again BG,

There is no wiggle room here. Convicted or not your son is a violent felon. I worked in prisons many, many years and there were usually substances involved in crimes of commitment. And many of those people received life sentences, despite being inebriated at the time of their crime.

I would be the first person to tell you that people can change. Your son does not want to.

Rather he is actively choosing to continue doing wrong, bad things. Selling food stamps is wrong. Intimidating you is wrong. Playing on your guilt and fear is wrong. Disrespecting you is wrong.

And that is just the start. You know that BG.

There are so many ways that he can stand up. He is choosing none of them.

If he wants to assume the role of a baby, as he seems to do, it has nothing in the world to do with you. Now.

That this grown man is your son changes nothing. It was this man who perpetrated a crime on you almost killing you, not your long gone baby boy.

Feelings are just that. Sometimes they are true, sometimes distorted. More often than not feelings typically confound and confuse us, having as much to do with the past, as the present or future. Feelings cannot guide us.

There is nobody here that does not know what you are going through. That is why the concern is so great. Each knows your vulnerabilities, and the perverse power of the child, now adult, in subverting our reason.

Don't let him BlackGnat.

Do it, BlackGnat. Do it for yourself. Do it.

None of this is your fault. None of it.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I want you to see how desperately I'm living. I want you to spend 24 no 36 hours with me

This kid is good. Our son was like this. (I am very certain that was just a little slip, when he did those bad things. Otherwise? He is just perfect. I remember those beautiful eyes, so swollen when he was born and then, when they changed color and became those beautiful eyes he had that time he was in Little League....) That is how my mind works, blackgnat. That is why it is so hard to be who I need to be, to deal with my addicted or ill child. I am at a serious disadvantage. Thinking the way I do, thinking the way all the moms whose children are not addicted or ill get to do every day of their lives and I don't, is where I fall into the ugliness of enabling. And I can't even see it when it happens to me, blackgnat. I slip into mother heart without even knowing I am there. That is why I had to post that picture of those soldiers next to the phone. So I could remember where my son should be at his age.

At his age.

A bearded male with a male's voice and musculature, now.

Our son says things like: "How are you? And I say this or that. Then, he says: "I have no food. I have no money to pay rent when you could have bought me that duplex I wanted all those years ago and instead, I don't even have my own house that I own. I don't even have a decent car. That is the difference between us, Cedar. (He calls me by my first name.) You get to choose a car and a color and what you want in it. I don't even get to choose a color because I am poor, and I suffer and you have everything you need and I don't even have a vehicle to drive to work in and that's why I don't work enough to pay for myself. Welcome to my world, Cedar."

And it is that conversation, every time, about every smallest thing.

And I can't keep it straight, about the baby and little boy and oh, man, how cool it was to see him turning into a man when he was freshly into adolescence and the bearded male with the man's voice and musculature with whom I am having a conversation about every single thing he does not have and I do.

So, that is what is happening.

What I did was turn things around. I began saying I wanted him to visit, that I could not wait until he was able to come home for a visit on his own dime like a man, like the man
D H and I had raised him to be and not to live with us, ever again.

Stuff like that. And I say those things not to instruct him, but to protect me from my own mother heart.

Because I do not want to enable.

I want him to be strong, and to stand up. And if that means he hates me, despises me even...I will just stand there, standing up, for that, too.

ouch

It is what it is.

Better to know.

I'm sorry, blackgnat.

No visit. Not for 24 to 36 hours, and not even for ten minutes. He knows you love him.

And he knows how to use that against you.

Hard stuff, blackgnat.

You have all of us now. That is not a big thing, but it is a thing that can help you see how to do this thing we have all had to learn how to do.

I am actually leaning towards more of a life of crime because I am so desperate.

What kind of crime? (why did I ask?)

Blatant manipulation.

You responded out of shock, out of the FOG he determinedly put you in.

ouch

I need to know that you will give me a ride back to Illinois so that I can get my medications and get my life back in order.

Translation: I need to know if this is the correct manipulation or if I will need to get meaner to get you to do what I told you to. Stop playing games, bad words, bad, terrible concepts of terrible things he could accuse you of being. And he will do that, blackgnat.

Even that part about medications.

A strike at the heart. A strike at the hope you hold in the heart of you, that the right medication will help him.

No, but they have a transitional program (at the worst mission) and I think I can get in there and then transfer to the other mission which I'm willing to go to, because I know what it's like.

And the thunder of sweet music becomes overwhelming. But then, what is that chord of dissonance, that weird music getting louder, more savage.

What? I thought I was hearing music but there is something off key, off balance happening, but...

The mother falls. Massive trunk; in full, healthy leaf, the oak begins to fall and fall and fall, down to the ground.

And what could possibly save her, now.

Well I think that you will do exactly the same in Illinois that you are doing in Colorado.

I don't know. You can say, "I don't know. I love you. I want you to stand up. I want to see the man your father and I raised you to be and that is all I know."

He called me an obscene name and hung up.

Well, that's a win for you, then. The mask came off; the manipulation didn't work.

Great job, blackgnat.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

After reading your story I almost feel guilty for taking up space here and wallering in my self pity.

You are not wallowing in self pity, Iwantpeace. You are living in the rabbit hole with all of us and that is such a hard thing.

I wish none of us had to lose our children in this protracted way and I feel so badly for me and for you and for all of us and for our children, too. But I think there is something to this detachment parenting concept.

So we have hope.

That is something I did not have, before.

We only need to learn how it works, and how to learn to believe in ourselves enough again to begin approaching what is happening to all of us from that different perspective of detachment parenting.

Thanks for saying all those nice things about me, though.

:O)

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

They have illness and addiction, but for them to sucker punch me verbally like they have took thought. It took memory and motive.

On the fridge it goes.

It took memory and motive

I hadn't read that sentence yet when I posted above.

Good one, Tish.

One of the things that has helped me so much is Al-Anon. One of their slogans is "Think". Profound, huh? For me it is, because my knee jerk reaction to any of their requests was always sure...even before I knew what it was. And then once I knew, I didn't feel right about going back on my word. It could apply to anything...moving in, cooking, lending money, giving money, babysitting, buying groceries, handing over the car keys, funding a jail account, you name it. Though they had no problem breaking promise after promise to me, no matter how heartfelt they sounded. Like what happened to Lil and Jabber, my sons could also totally ignore me. I was unheeded and unheard. Double the insult. Cue the ice water.

I love this.

There is something warm and familiar about us and with all the chaos they choose to live in, they like to have us close. Even if we suffer. Even if we get sick. Even if we get hurt. Even if we do things to ourselves that are not loving or supportive. Even as we grow weary with age. It's an abomination.

It is.

Thank you.

Surprise is our enemy. We have to stay vigilant and alert, lest we think the Storm is over and we can be regular Mommies again.

Well. Looks like I am quoting your whole post, here.

It's making me so much stronger. About everything. About FOO issues, too.

So many of us have been in the Storm and the FOG for so long now. I have come to the conclusion that I may never be able to mother like I used to. I am grateful that I am a mother and was able to have a family and raise my children in a happy and loving home, but that's what my husband and I chose for our lives. We put our family and their happiness first. What my sons choose for themselves and their children is going to look different. I have to learn to be ok with that. Live and let live.

This is golden, Tish.

Woot!

Tell your heart that, in this matter, your gut and your brain get to decide the right course.

That is a really good thing to think, when we are in FOG.

Remember that sometimes the definition of heaven is backing away from hell

I would be the first person to tell you that people can change. Your son does not want to.

True.

Cedar