Openly defiant middle child.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by MPscout95, Sep 10, 2011.

  1. MPscout95

    MPscout95 New Member

    Our daughter, 5yrs. old, is openly defiant towards rules that have been put in place at home and school. It seems that she has no fear of authority, all attempt to discipline her have failed ... we have tried time out's, spanking, taking away prized toys and television privileges. Nothing works. She is a very intelligent child with an amazing imagination. She is a middle child but as parents we spend plenty of time with her; Art, Sports, Dance ...
    She is in a private christian school that is very structured, she is in her 2nd year of kindergarten (we kept her back, based on fear of her not being ready) and will turn 6 in mid-sept.
    Older sister is in 2nd grade, over achiever, easy going, mild mannered, smart and funny.
    Younger brother is 2yrs. old, no negative behaviors.
    For years we have joked that we have a college fund for one child and a bail fund for the other, being that the girls are so young and don't understand the concept. Lately, our innocent joke seems to be transforming into a true possibility.
    Can anyone suggest idea's to curb the behavior ...
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2011
  2. keista

    keista New Member


    Before I can offer ideas, I've got questions. (so will the others that follow) Please help us out so that we may help you better.

    When she's defiant, does she have tantrums or rages? Or is she just a "quiet mule"? Was she not ready for 1st grade academically or just behaviorally? What are the school's thoughts/comments on her behavior? What happens when she defies the rules at home? At school? Has she been evaluated for social/emotional or academic delays? How was she as a baby and toddler?

    Welcome again. You've found a great place for support, guidance and insights.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think you should have her evaluated by a neuropsychologist.

    Was she always different? How was she as an infant and younger toddler? Did she speak on time, make good eye contact, cuddle, walk on time?? Does she know how to relate to and get along with her same age peers? Are there any psychiatric or neurological problems on either side of her biological family tree? Any substance abuse? Do you think she may have any learning difficulties, in spite of being intelligent?

    Even though it would be better if you didn't have to be here, we're nice people. Welcome to the board :)
  4. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Welcome to our little corner of the world but am so very sorry you needed to find us. Keista and MidwestMom have asked some very good questions. If you haven't already consulted with a reputable child psychiatrist or a neuropsychologist, you might want to do that soon. It will help tremendously if you know if you are dealing with something specific. That might also open some doors to get her some help in school so problems there don't get much worse. I would also request in writing, Return Receipt Requested, a "full assessment for Special Education Services including academic, speech, Occupational Therapist (OT), and behavioral assessments". That will get the ball rolling at the school.

    Sounds like you have your hands full. More information about you, your family, and maybe a couple specific detailed examples of behaviors you are dealing with will help us be in a better place to help you.

    You HAVE come to a great place. These parents are awesome and if it weren't for them, I wouldn't have any sanity left intact. Stick around and maybe read through some of our archives. Something helpful might jump out at you.
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Defiance is usually a red flag. And if other kids in the home are not a problem, then it is not likely to be your general parenting skills. BUT... this child may have issues and challenges that you don't know about yet.

    On top of the questions that have already been asked - what, specifically, were the reasons for keeping her back?
  6. MPscout95

    MPscout95 New Member

    From 1 month to 14 months old I was out of the picture, Deployed to Iraq. After return she never warmed up to me. Older sister (18mo. age difference) has always been a daddys girl. She was delayed in speech and fine motor skills, possibly because older sister did alot for her. We didnt let her go to 1st grade because she wasnt emotionally ready in our eyes. it didnt seem as she knew the basics and would be on the same level as other kids. We recently talked to school counselor, principle and her teacher ... all say she is extremely smart, gifted and ahead of the other students. Still clueless to why she is defiant ... she is a quite bull.
  7. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    The first half of that statement is really important - and the second half might explain why you haven't gone chasing for a diagnosis.

    Delays in speech is a major red flag - and she should have had early intervention.
    Fine motor skills issues - are absolutely brutal once they get to school. been there done that.

    This is not about a "defiant" kid.
    This is a kid with undiagnosed problems - and the problems are "driving her crazy" - or, the problems are symptoms of the real underlying dxes.

    Comprehensive evaluation is in order - as fast as you can get it.
    Meanwhile - look into Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation - for sensory AND motor skills issues - and specifically document things you have noticed over the years.

    Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation will also be inorder - but you will need more than one... one now, because of the history of speech delays, and one later (once other dxes are in place and so on) if she still struggles, because auditory issues can also be a factor and maynot be obvious.

    Occupational Therapist (OT) and Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) will not get you dxes. But they will... document the existance of specific issues (useful for school, and for other evaluators later), and can offer therapies to help.
  8. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Just wanted to say welcome. And to second the idea of getting a comprehensive evaluation done, probably a neuropysch or developmental pediatrician. They can diagnosis better than the therapists or psychiatrists.