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Other people who are shunned and how it makes me feel
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<blockquote data-quote="New Leaf" data-source="post: 677336" data-attributes="member: 19522"><p>My Hoku contacted Tornado and encouraged her to make amends. Her reply was that she was "cast off" . There is nothing further from the truth. Her mind is set that the family rejected her, when in actuality, she continued to be extremely disrespectful and <em>objectified all of us</em>. </p><p><em>That is what is rejected</em>, her actions, not her.</p><p>Most of Tornados contact in the past, with her sisters was for <em>something she wanted</em>. Most of what she wanted, had to do with her addiction.</p><p>Blossom took care of her children for a time, with no thank you's, no appreciation, just Tornados <em>feeling of entitlement</em>. </p><p>Both sisters have bent over backwards to help the grands.</p><p>When Tornado left, she cut all of us off. </p><p>She knew, lines were being drawn with all of us on the lifestyle she chooses, and how it was affecting us.</p><p>She chose her abusive boyfriend and drugs, and shunned us. Huh.</p><p></p><p>Shunning.</p><p></p><p>What has happened as I understand from others here, writing of shunning from their FOO, is that the <em>norm</em> in the family was one of mistreatment. Those who grew up with this, saw it for what it was and rejected this "norm." Stood up for right treatment, then were shunned for their bravery in seeing that there is a better, kinder, more loving way to live and treat family.</p><p></p><p>In our case here, with my two,<em> of course we made mistakes</em> but the family code we tried to follow was to care for one another, to appreciate each others differences. To live and learn, forgive and love each other. </p><p></p><p>When drugs took a hold of my two, their lives became a mess. They refused to see the mess as consequences of their actions, kept blaming their FOO (us)<em> for the choices they made</em>. They shunned all of us, the way we lived, yet kept coming back for "help". </p><p>I see how imbalanced this relationship was and is, how they began to despise us,</p><p> but at the same time, expected to be enabled. </p><p>Detachment "sealed" the deal. </p><p>By not giving in to their demands and expectations of entitlement, we became "BAD." </p><p></p><p>Hoku says, "It is all in their minds Mom, they have told their story so many times, they believe it. It is not true Mom, we had a good life, you did the best job you could. Too bad for them."</p><p></p><p>I can't thank God enough, that I have my three, who share this with me. They yearn for a closeness wth their two sisters, but understand because of their lifestyle choices, this is not possible. </p><p>They refuse to be hurt, objectified and used anymore.</p><p>They have not shunned their sisters, but have shunned their ways. Their sisters do not try to contact them. </p><p></p><p>For now it is an impasse.</p><p>This does not mean there is no hope. We hope for change.</p><p></p><p>I think shunning is also a way to <em>validate</em> ones actions and way of living. If family maintains their lives with respectful, kind treatment of one another- trying to follow a moral compass, then for those who have strayed far beyond the family beliefs,<em> it is a constant reminder of the boundaries they crossed</em>.</p><p></p><p>This is what I see of my two.</p><p></p><p>Looking at me, they have to have a glimpse, a true memory of what their lives were, the good times they had, compared with what they are doing now. </p><p>It must be painful. </p><p>The reality of being <em>possessed by addiction</em>. </p><p>The things they have had to do, to feed the monster. </p><p>Instead of looking at <em>addiction as the monster</em>, they have flipped the switch, and view their family this way.</p><p>We are the monsters. I can only imagine what stories they have told others.</p><p></p><p>The no contact, shunning is a way to continue on, as is. </p><p></p><p>The way my Rain treats me is a way of shunning. </p><p>Shunning the natural relationship a mother and daughter could have. </p><p>She will keep doing what she does, her addiction has taken over, her <em>drug using friends </em>are family. </p><p>That is why she can say to me "You think you are so high and mighty." </p><p>Her "family" now, are people who scrounge, steal and lie to get high. </p><p>Meth is their master.</p><p> How can one perpetrate bad acts against others, and view them as equals, even people? </p><p>They shun normalcy, much like some teens, brand high school kids who do well, as "nerds". </p><p></p><p><em>Addicts must work hard to convince themselves </em>that their way of living is acceptable.</p><p> Justifiable. </p><p>The way they do this is to shun normalcy, shun decency. </p><p>Those who live this way, are "high and mighty", in their minds, they <em>deserve to stolen from</em>. "Who do they think they are?" must be their way of thinking. "Who do they think they are to look down on our drug using and lifestyle?" </p><p></p><p>I think the root of shunning is justification. In order to keep walking a path of deceit, hurtful deeds and selfishness, everyone who tries to live otherwise <em>must be made as fools</em>, or the enemy in their minds. It is a way to lift themselves up, to justify their actions.</p><p> My sister in law went out with a man for a long time who was a smooth talker, a scammer. Friendly, funny and charismatic, he could sell someone their own shirt off their backs, and laugh about, congratulate himself on a job well done. I asked him once how he could justify making money off of his "friends", he said with casualness, rather flippantly "I am providing something they want, and if I make a lot of money off of them, then we both win, they get what they want, and I get richer." </p><p></p><p>I think that is a form of shunning, shunning decency and how to treat people. With that, comes a <em>justification of wrongful action</em> to the person committing the deed. It is the other persons fault, for<em> allowing</em> it to happen.</p><p></p><p>The world is full of all sorts of people, with all sorts of perspectives.</p><p> There seems to be a glut of objectifying and depersonalizing people. </p><p>The "me" attitude, is so prevalent.</p><p></p><p>Not to be preachy, but the opposite of the "me" attitude, are the beatitudes</p><p></p><p>Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:3" target="_blank">5:3</a>)</p><p>Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted. (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:4" target="_blank">5:4</a>)</p><p>Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth. (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:5" target="_blank">5:5</a>)</p><p>Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled. (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:6" target="_blank">5:6</a>)</p><p>Blessed are the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_of_mercy" target="_blank">merciful</a>: for they will be shown mercy. (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:7" target="_blank">5:7</a>)</p><p>Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God. (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:8" target="_blank">5:8</a>)</p><p>Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God. (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:9" target="_blank">5:9</a>)</p><p>Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:10" target="_blank">5:10</a>)</p><p></p><p>The "me" attitude of this world, promotes self gratification above all else. It is why a person like Trump, can rise in the polls. Aren't we all pretty much aghast, at this? How are people so mislead?</p><p></p><p>I think the same thing is happening to families. The "me" attitude. </p><p>It allows shunning. </p><p></p><p>Shunning is a weapon. </p><p>It says, I am right and you are wrong, so wrong, <em>that I will have nothing to do with you.</em></p><p></p><p>Shunning. It is hateful and abusive.</p><p></p><p>Back to the yard...........I am chopping and cutting, using a machete. </p><p>Good way to work out the audacity and complete insanity of it all. </p><p>Cedar, you chop onions, I am going to chop bushes. LOL</p><p>"When chopping bushes, just chop bushes...."</p><p></p><p>I think the answer to shunning is the same as the answer to the degradation my two are living. </p><p></p><p>My answer at this moment is to strive hard to live my life to the fullest, and show by my actions and deeds, how to live a good <em>rest of my life</em>. </p><p>Of course I will slip and fall with mistakes and misdeeds, no one is perfect.</p><p></p><p> I will try my best to do the right thing. The right thing for myself and others.</p><p></p><p>The right thing is to stand up, build up and not allow other people, family members, d cs included, <em>to take away my joy. </em></p><p>Life is too short. </p><p>For goodness sake, it seems like yesterday, I was 20...........Years go by, in the blink of an eye.</p><p>I will still hope for change with my two, but in the meantime, </p><p>I have got to straighten my back.....</p><p>not let their choices and actions affect me so much. </p><p>I hope for change for them, and work for change in my responses and patterns. </p><p>Change</p><p></p><p><img src="http://shouttr.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Change-does-not-roll-in-on-the-wheels-of-inevitability-but-comes-through-continuous-struggle.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> </p><p></p><p>Thank you for the discussion. </p><p></p><p>Phew, what a vent.</p><p></p><p>Enjoy your MLK day. What a great man, and example for us all.</p><p>(((HUGS)))</p><p></p><p>leafy</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="New Leaf, post: 677336, member: 19522"] My Hoku contacted Tornado and encouraged her to make amends. Her reply was that she was "cast off" . There is nothing further from the truth. Her mind is set that the family rejected her, when in actuality, she continued to be extremely disrespectful and [I]objectified all of us[/I]. [I]That is what is rejected[/I], her actions, not her. Most of Tornados contact in the past, with her sisters was for [I]something she wanted[/I]. Most of what she wanted, had to do with her addiction. Blossom took care of her children for a time, with no thank you's, no appreciation, just Tornados [I]feeling of entitlement[/I]. Both sisters have bent over backwards to help the grands. When Tornado left, she cut all of us off. She knew, lines were being drawn with all of us on the lifestyle she chooses, and how it was affecting us. She chose her abusive boyfriend and drugs, and shunned us. Huh. Shunning. What has happened as I understand from others here, writing of shunning from their FOO, is that the [I]norm[/I] in the family was one of mistreatment. Those who grew up with this, saw it for what it was and rejected this "norm." Stood up for right treatment, then were shunned for their bravery in seeing that there is a better, kinder, more loving way to live and treat family. In our case here, with my two,[I] of course we made mistakes[/I] but the family code we tried to follow was to care for one another, to appreciate each others differences. To live and learn, forgive and love each other. When drugs took a hold of my two, their lives became a mess. They refused to see the mess as consequences of their actions, kept blaming their FOO (us)[I] for the choices they made[/I]. They shunned all of us, the way we lived, yet kept coming back for "help". I see how imbalanced this relationship was and is, how they began to despise us, but at the same time, expected to be enabled. Detachment "sealed" the deal. By not giving in to their demands and expectations of entitlement, we became "BAD." Hoku says, "It is all in their minds Mom, they have told their story so many times, they believe it. It is not true Mom, we had a good life, you did the best job you could. Too bad for them." I can't thank God enough, that I have my three, who share this with me. They yearn for a closeness wth their two sisters, but understand because of their lifestyle choices, this is not possible. They refuse to be hurt, objectified and used anymore. They have not shunned their sisters, but have shunned their ways. Their sisters do not try to contact them. For now it is an impasse. This does not mean there is no hope. We hope for change. I think shunning is also a way to [I]validate[/I] ones actions and way of living. If family maintains their lives with respectful, kind treatment of one another- trying to follow a moral compass, then for those who have strayed far beyond the family beliefs,[I] it is a constant reminder of the boundaries they crossed[/I]. This is what I see of my two. Looking at me, they have to have a glimpse, a true memory of what their lives were, the good times they had, compared with what they are doing now. It must be painful. The reality of being [I]possessed by addiction[/I]. The things they have had to do, to feed the monster. Instead of looking at [I]addiction as the monster[/I], they have flipped the switch, and view their family this way. We are the monsters. I can only imagine what stories they have told others. The no contact, shunning is a way to continue on, as is. The way my Rain treats me is a way of shunning. Shunning the natural relationship a mother and daughter could have. She will keep doing what she does, her addiction has taken over, her [I]drug using friends [/I]are family. That is why she can say to me "You think you are so high and mighty." Her "family" now, are people who scrounge, steal and lie to get high. Meth is their master. How can one perpetrate bad acts against others, and view them as equals, even people? They shun normalcy, much like some teens, brand high school kids who do well, as "nerds". [I]Addicts must work hard to convince themselves [/I]that their way of living is acceptable. Justifiable. The way they do this is to shun normalcy, shun decency. Those who live this way, are "high and mighty", in their minds, they [I]deserve to stolen from[/I]. "Who do they think they are?" must be their way of thinking. "Who do they think they are to look down on our drug using and lifestyle?" I think the root of shunning is justification. In order to keep walking a path of deceit, hurtful deeds and selfishness, everyone who tries to live otherwise [I]must be made as fools[/I], or the enemy in their minds. It is a way to lift themselves up, to justify their actions. My sister in law went out with a man for a long time who was a smooth talker, a scammer. Friendly, funny and charismatic, he could sell someone their own shirt off their backs, and laugh about, congratulate himself on a job well done. I asked him once how he could justify making money off of his "friends", he said with casualness, rather flippantly "I am providing something they want, and if I make a lot of money off of them, then we both win, they get what they want, and I get richer." I think that is a form of shunning, shunning decency and how to treat people. With that, comes a [I]justification of wrongful action[/I] to the person committing the deed. It is the other persons fault, for[I] allowing[/I] it to happen. The world is full of all sorts of people, with all sorts of perspectives. There seems to be a glut of objectifying and depersonalizing people. The "me" attitude, is so prevalent. Not to be preachy, but the opposite of the "me" attitude, are the beatitudes Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:3']5:3[/URL]) Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted. ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:4']5:4[/URL]) Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth. ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:5']5:5[/URL]) Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled. ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:6']5:6[/URL]) Blessed are the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_of_mercy']merciful[/URL]: for they will be shown mercy. ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:7']5:7[/URL]) Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God. ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:8']5:8[/URL]) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God. ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:9']5:9[/URL]) Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:10']5:10[/URL]) The "me" attitude of this world, promotes self gratification above all else. It is why a person like Trump, can rise in the polls. Aren't we all pretty much aghast, at this? How are people so mislead? I think the same thing is happening to families. The "me" attitude. It allows shunning. Shunning is a weapon. It says, I am right and you are wrong, so wrong, [I]that I will have nothing to do with you.[/I] Shunning. It is hateful and abusive. Back to the yard...........I am chopping and cutting, using a machete. Good way to work out the audacity and complete insanity of it all. Cedar, you chop onions, I am going to chop bushes. LOL "When chopping bushes, just chop bushes...." I think the answer to shunning is the same as the answer to the degradation my two are living. My answer at this moment is to strive hard to live my life to the fullest, and show by my actions and deeds, how to live a good [I]rest of my life[/I]. Of course I will slip and fall with mistakes and misdeeds, no one is perfect. I will try my best to do the right thing. The right thing for myself and others. The right thing is to stand up, build up and not allow other people, family members, d cs included, [I]to take away my joy. [/I] Life is too short. For goodness sake, it seems like yesterday, I was 20...........Years go by, in the blink of an eye. I will still hope for change with my two, but in the meantime, I have got to straighten my back..... not let their choices and actions affect me so much. I hope for change for them, and work for change in my responses and patterns. Change [IMG]http://shouttr.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Change-does-not-roll-in-on-the-wheels-of-inevitability-but-comes-through-continuous-struggle.jpg[/IMG] Thank you for the discussion. Phew, what a vent. Enjoy your MLK day. What a great man, and example for us all. (((HUGS))) leafy [/QUOTE]
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