Our visit today (long)

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by wintak, May 25, 2011.

  1. wintak

    wintak New Member

    H is our 5 y.o easy child. She had wanted to talk to the therapist about how to deal with difficult child (aka E). So we go. and the therapist goes over all the options she can do when E makes her mad. All of which were options we had already talked about at home that don't work (E follows you when you're mad so walking away doesn't work, for example). Then therapist talks about a coping skills box (which they had E do a couple months ago which he refuses to use). They talk about when to use it and how etc. I say to therapist...why is it that we have to have a FIVE year old have a coping skills box to deal with her brother? And her younger bro is 3 so he probably needs one and I do, but why do we ALL need to learn to cope with him and he doesn't need to learn to cope with US?

    And you guys who have had your diagnosis for longer than me probably are rolling your eyes, but I still don't understand.

    BUT I also saw the psychiatrists nurse and she said she knew she had a vm from me and what could she do. SO I tell her, I'm getting calls and emails from the school and when I go to the school they want to TALK to me about his "tics" or "stims" or whatever the heck they are. He is really ramping up the noises and he's constantly sniffing and I don't think he has a cold as it's been WELL over a week with white boogers down his nose (and he has to be reminded to blow his nose) and he's still bouncing all OVER the place and he's still got the physical tics (and I use that word cuz we still don't know for sure what this is). She says to me...OH NO...if it was medications induced, they should have subsided by now. Yeah, they haven't. can we DO something? She says, now it just might be habit or he IS doing this on purpose. Oh great.

    But we have to ride it out until we see psychiatrist next week and then re-evaluate. She told me to just leave him alone and don't say anything to him about it. I told her I DON'T. I did, but then I got myself numb to it and I don't say anything, his sibs don't, I'm being told the school kids don't even say anything so NO ONE is making a deal out of this.

    But the other day at dinner apparently he was looking right at me (my mom was watching him) and I was talking across the table to H and according to my mom...he looked right at me and just made those nosies louder and LOUDER AND LOUDER. didn't work, I'm so numb to them I didn't even notice.

    THEN my SO calls the therapist (I'm alone with difficult child up to 30 days at a time, then have SO home for no more than 7) and says there is a concern about the safety in the house (true) and the effect it's having on the other two and on me (true) and got some info on group homes for out of home treatment help.

    Then I'm told I'm probably desensitized to how much is going on in here (most likely true because when someone from the outside comes, they can "see" what I am "overlooking")

    So we got info on 2 group homes and one is for neglect and abuse (not his problem that I'm aware of) and one is Christian based which (and please don't make this a religious thread) our family is not considered Christian...Buddhist, yes. So if he went there we'd have to see if they were open to a non-Christian family. Heck my money is just as green as anyone else's right?

    SO then I start looking up other facilities but I'm having trouble finding ones for kids with behavioural problems that are NOT due to physical or sexual abuse or neglect. Any ideas on how to find homes for kids who have not been subjected to that treatment?

    This has been a PARTICULARLY difficult month for this family. One home said treatment takes on avg 5 mos...I was like...5 mos with-o the constant fighting, defiance etc. Wow. Wonder what a "typical" house feels like anymore.

    I have a SPLITTING headache from all this. my two easy child's have karate and I drag difficult child along and today he was doable, but still managed to really get under my skin and ANOTHER MOTHER handed him a tissue for his nose. Yes, that makes me feel like a terrible mom, but he doesn't seem to care.

    ANd..today he asks if he has to do what another parent tells him to do. I try inquire about the particular situation he might be referring to. (like if a man tells him to get into a van...NO, you don't...if a parent at school tells you to stop hitting, yes). And he says he just thought up the question and it hasn't happened yet (I'm betting it has) and so I told him yes....wonder what came up today.

    Thanks for "listening" Must take advil and drop to bed.
  2. erbaledge

    erbaledge New Member


    You mention tics, is he on a stimulant?

    by the way, have you had any 'me' time lately? Sounds like you need it, even if for only a few hours, though I think a full 24 or 48 is in order.
  3. ready2run

    ready2run New Member

    i also wonder why we are all supposed to cope with the problems and allow them to continue on. i hate having my smaller kids see what difficult child is doing and having to grow up with mom all stressed out all the time. i am not too fun when i get annoyed which is often... i am with you on wondering what it would be like to be a normal family and often wish for a group home to appear for difficult child to go stay at so we can have some quiet time. if you are like me you probably don't really have time for me time either.....*sigh
  4. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    It sounds as if your accumulated stress and frustration has led to you feeling very antagonistic to your eldest son. I do understand something (of course) of how very difficult it is dealing with a difficult child and you also have other children to think of. But I can only imagine that your son feels this lack of acceptance and affection and it makes him worse. Please do not misunderstand and please others do not jump on me for saying this; it is actually quite difficult to say because I think I will be misunderstood :) I am not trying to attack you. Parenting a difficult child is a hell of a job. But when I read your posts I get the impression that you don't like your child and that you somehow feel like he is doing it all on purpose to rile you up. Please tell me if I have got that all wrong. All I know is that I got into a place like that last year. Was feeling SO resentful of and continually upset at my son's obstinacy and refusal to do what I asked, outbursts of temper, etc. I allowed the worst side of my character to come out in regard to him - people listening to us might well have thought "Wow, she really doesn't love that little boy". They might also have thought "That little boy is very hard to love"... And of course once you get on that sort of cycle, it just spins round ever faster, going nowhere good. I had to reclaim my lost affection for my child - who desperately needs it, despite the outward difficulty of his behaviour at times - and that marked a kind of turning point in our relationship and his behaviour. Of course he's still a difficult child and still does stuff that presses my buttons, but if we don't have the strong bond of affection and warmth tying us together, NOTHING seems possible, the whole thing seems hopeless, it truly does. Your son seems somehow like the outsider in your family. You will say perhaps that he has created that situation. That's true in a way but it's because he's a difficult child and cannot help himself. You have the power to change in ways that he presumably doesn't.
    Well, I've said my 2 cents. I do hope you don't take it amiss. My warmest wishes to you and your family in what sounds like such an exhausting and difficult time for each one of you.
  5. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member


    living with a difficult child is never, ever easy - rarely is it stress free - you are always, always on. Having said that, I will tell you that advocating firmly and loudly with the school and the doctors will help. Patience and little more love can also make a difference.

    I'm not living in a rose colored world here. I don't think love can cure all. But consider how your son must feel inside. Do you think he would behave this way if he really had a choice? I'm not talking the seemingly deliberate actions which lead many parents to believe their difficult children have a choice. Kids want to be good. They don't want to hear "no" all the time, or be disciplined all the time, or be called out in front of the other students all the time.

    I totally understand how you feel he is controlling the house. I get that you are at the end of your rope and the younger ones are suffering. I think you need to be very, very proactive with difficult child. You need to hold firm to clear expectation and consequences for them not being followed. Disengage with the battle and just give the commands. Spend some time alone with your son without the stressors of his behavior towards his sibs at the forefront. See what makes him tic. Find something he really enjoys and do it with him - just the two of you. Make sure he understands that he is loved as much as his young sibs. Confidence building is important.

    When you go and see the psychiatrist, make sure you have some documentation of specific behavior issues you want addressed. Perhaps some written input from his teacher as well. The psychiatrist needs to understands how disruptive your home is. No child, easy child or difficult child, can grow positively in that atmosphere.

    And I also agree that you need some "me" time. Can you arrange some time away to pamper you? You don't have to spend a lot of money on a spa or anything. Just a day to maybe see a movie, stroll the book store, go swimming at a ymca......

  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member


    I know it's hard for you and for your other kids (and I NEVER discount the healthy kids who deserve a safe, calm house), but do you really think your son is doing this on purpose, to bother all of you? Tics and stims can both get worse under stress so that makes it look even more as it they are doing it on purpose. If it turns out he has Tourettes Syndrome, which he may, it is a medical condition which causes behavioral problems. There is help for it, but no real group home for a medical problem. Just like if a child has cancer and is demanding, in my opinion unless he is physically harming the other kids, they have to learn that their brother has a disability. They have to learn to deal with it. in my opinion he is not being "bad" on purpose.

    I think it would really be helpful to you to get into therapy yourself...aside from your children. You can explore your feelings about your child, and hopefully get great feedback, and learn how to make time for yourself so that you are refreshed and able to face the special challenges your son has. I don't believe that you don't love your son. I know you do or you wouldn't be here. But perhaps you are resenting him because he is difficult and of course he knows that.

    I wish you luck. Hey, spoil yourself. Go to a spa for a day...lol. Just take a good book out of the library, take a relaxing bubble bath, baby yourself as you walk this journey with your family. Trust me, been there, done that. (((Hugs)))
  7. wintak

    wintak New Member

    Midwest, he is extremely aggressive with his younger siblings. Ebbs and flows, but when he's in his "mood" (my word for it) we do have to watch out for the younger two.

    Do not take time for me because I'm usually dealing with him, dropping and picking up from school (my choice they do not go to the same school) and taking care of the 3 y.o. When I do not have the 3 y.o it's because I"m doing dr appts or school functions. So no, I'm maxed out and I know it. I know I need some me time but that's not in the cards.

    I have TOLD the therapists/dr;s that he must feel horrible. He must feel like no one loves him, he must feel sad and alone. They tell me he doesn't know that feeling (yet) because he's never had the chance to feel it (he's been like this since 10 mos old) and he thinks what he feels now is "typical". When you ask him or read his journals he says he feels like he's loved, he feels like he loves his family etc. Now, truth be told, we did go down the avenue of making sure we hug him and tell him we love him and how much we like that he's a part of the family. That totally backfired. He hates to be hugged (or held and no, it's not a sensory thing) and when he gets mad he tells us that we must not love him and he doesn't feel a part of the family. we affirm we do and he is and it goes down from there.

    There is nothing we have found that this kid LIKES to do. We did the "special" time every other night for months. Finally he told us that he didn't really want to spend time with us, he'd rather watch a movie alone. I can't FORCE him to spend time with me. And yes, I have resentment. Doesn't everyone at one time? I have resentment that I"m losing time with the other 2 as they grow up because I'm trying to put out fires with him. I am resentful that H and C have heard this type of family life since they were in utero. I'm resentful that we can't all get along.

    Malika...how did you reclaim your lost love for you difficult child?

    and yes, he's on concerta (which he didn't want to take this a.m. because it's just too much swallowing for him :rolleyes: oughta be a great day at school) and now Zyprexa.

    My father in law said one time you just gotta love him more and that will make it better. I have loved that child so much I cry myself to sleep sometimes because I can't figure out how to make him "Better". It's destroying the family unit and no one can help me make him better. And yes, I DO think he's doing SOME of this on purpose. He has always done things on purpose to ...what's the phrase....push my buttons. But everyone, docs, therapists, many of you guys who have been dealing with this longer than me, keep saying everyone else has to change and not him. As an adult I can't wrap my head around that.
  8. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Hello wintak. When I read that your son does not like to be held or hugged, alarm bells went off for me. This really does sound like a problem of attachment. In the book I quoted from some time ago, "The Primal Wound", the author gives contact details for questions. Why don't you try getting in touch with her - she may, possibly, be able to provide some avenue of help and she is a REAL expert in the field.
    Nancy Verrier
    POB 208
    Lafayette, CA 94549
    The book was published some years ago so these details may be out of date - I don't know whether a google search on Nancy Newton Verrier might yield results.
    It all sounds like such a textbook case of insufficient bonding onto you as a family unit. There might be all sorts of reasons for that. I would consider it significant to know whether you thought you couldn't have biological children and then they arrived - no need to answer that here.
    As for how I reclaimed my lost love for J, as it were, in his case it was made easy by the fact that his nature is (while demanding, obstinate, bossy, occasionally bullying and all the other difficult child traits) very affectionate and loving. He loves and needs to give and receive hugs and cuddles and is very quick to say "I love you, Mummy". He has a lot of positive qualities. Along with all the challenging ones. I feel that the negative rut we had got into was really largely my responsibility - I was just responding to him as I felt like it, getting annoyed and cross at his "misbehaviour" all the time as if he was being wilfully naughty, as you would with an ordinary child, and of course that just doesn't work with our children. Things were so bad... I felt like I didn't like him, didn't really want him with me although that sounds so awful - there was no joy in our lives, just him provoking me and me getting crosser and crosser, which provoked him more and round and round. I just got to a point where I couldn't live like that any more. Sounds like you are nearly there. In the reading I was doing I came across the concept that ODD-type behaviour is a result of the RELATIONSHIP between the child and the parent or parents. I decided to give it a try, see if there was truth in it. Desperate and hopeful. And there is a truth in it. Feeling more loved and secure, seeing me model calm and affectionate behaviour towards him, J stopped having his rages, stopped constantly provoking me. Seeing him respond, I became more confident and so on, in a postive cycle. Don't get me wrong - he is still difficult. But I don't take it so personally any more and I REALLY concentrate on his good side. He is my child, for good or bad.
    Of course I can't know if this will work with your boy. It sounds like there are very fundamental issues at play. To be honest, he sounds to me like a courageous child, a truthful child (however outwardly maddening, I do understand) because he knows something is not right. It is as if he knows he is not in the "right" place, with the right people, his people... a great sadness and isolation, yes. Also a kind of wounded pride? All this means not that he cannot and does not belong with you but that there is some deep grieving that he has to do... I really do hope that you can get some help with this from adoption/attachment specialists.
  9. wintak

    wintak New Member

    I'll look into that book...it's one of the few I haven't read.

    Why do you think he sounds like a courageous, truthful child? I don't understand, but maybe it's in the book?
  10. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    No, not in the book :) Just what I felt intuitively when I read what you wrote. An accurate intuition? Only you are in a position to know.
  11. wintak

    wintak New Member

    no kidding...couragous and truthful are not two words I would use to describe him
  12. LookingForAnswers

    LookingForAnswers New Member

    Malika ~ When I read this it really made me think about my husband and our difficult child's relationship. They used to be close...difficult child was a daddy's boy through and through. This past year, however, that seems to have changed. This past year has been particularly hard for difficult child. We haven't been able to get his medications right and his ODD is the worst it has ever been. It's always been sort-of underlying and the Depression and ADHD was the most prevalent disorders. The ODD has really driven a wedge between them. Usually when I get "fed up" and feel like I can't take it anymore, he steps up and he is the calm voice of reason...and vice versa. We have always been able to "tag out" so to speak. But lately...the past few months...it seems like he is just angry at him all the time and I know difficult child can sense it. At one time things were so bad in our home that me, husband, easy child all stayed in the garage because difficult child was so angry (during that time he was not taking the anti-depressant) and everything set him off into a rage so we just gave him space and tried not to set him off. It was during that time that I was at my lowest. But it was more pain than anger. One thing you said that really struck me was....
    I know that my husband does take it personal because he feels so disrespected. When difficult child speaks to one of us disrespectfully it makes him so angry. I am not saying that I don't ever get mad because I do. But the anger goes away just as quick as it comes. I am not saying that I haven't ever lost my temper or gotten to the end of my rope because I have but I always find my way back. I know that there is so much of this that is out of his control and I always TRY think about that....but he can certainly test me! LOL! I love that child with all my heart and I fight everyday to not let these disorders ruin his life. I know that husband loves him with all his heart....I know that it tears him up inside that our difficult child has to deal with these disorders. I hope that husband can find away to deal with his feelings so that he can fix his fractured relationship with difficult child. Thanks for you post....it really opened my eyes up to what was going on with husband and difficult child.
  13. ready2run

    ready2run New Member

    lol....it's funny how some other people see our kids and how different it is from the reality of things. no offence Malika, i'm sure you had a reason to think that. i have had people tell me how intelligent and observant my difficult child is and yet he has only just learned to count and doesn't know how to spell his name or anything after how many hours of trying to teach him? not that he i think he is stupid. he just isn't interested in learning. and observant? well if you drop a crumb he will tell you and make you pick it up but at most times a car could smash through the house and he'd still be doing whatever he's doing.

    my little guy sounds alot like yours. he hates being touched and it's really hard to bond with him. he acts like coming down from his room is doing everyone a favour and then tries to take over.
  14. keista

    keista New Member

    I don't think it's different from the reality, I think outsiders just see different things. I think we need to look at our kids through different eyes sometimes, to see the gifts they do have.

    Your example reminds me of my son. Seemed like he wanted to learn everything EXCEPT what was being actively taught to him. By the end of pre-k he was finally able to do simple drawings (hated it) but he had learned all his states and their respective capitals (from his Leappad). He could even pick them out on a map at random, BUT he still did not "want" to put any effort into the stuff he was supposed to do. Of course, it took him two more years to understand what a state and a capital was, but he could name them all.
  15. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    The courage and the truthfulness are not the obvious or easily visible kind (unfortunately). Adopted children experiencing severe attachment problems can go two ways, it seems - they can become outwardly very compliant and inwardly withdrawn, which of course earns the approval of the adults, or they can become... well, like little hellions, all the inner pain and confusion and grief becoming externalised. This does take a kind of courage. As for the truthful, I did not mean in the obvious sense of not telling lies or falsehoods. I meant it in the sense of being emotionally truthful. It was his saying that he was not part of you and wanted to be alone that struck me. From the situation as you have described it here, it sounds as if this is, sadly, true.
  16. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I don't knwo if any of us can make the kinds of observaations that malika is making from a month or so of posting on this board. We ARE a very close group and we share a LOT. But we have to understand that many times what we post here are our worst fears, our end-of-our-rope, cannot take any more, venting. We write it out and it gives us the release to get a better grip on the rope, and to handle more and more. Many of our kids are very observant, but not all. I have read wintak's posts and am not sure I can blame adoption or not feeling like he belongs for being the main part of his problems. I DO feel that W's feelings probably are perceived by her kids - esp how overwhelmed and sad she feels. How could she not, and how could they miss it.

    but I htink her treatment of him doesn't show the resentment that Malika is saying is such a huge part of things. I don't get resentment as much as frustration from her. Like W, I do NOT see why it is always the parents that must change and the child must almost NEVER be held accountable for things. I know how terrified she is that her difficult child will hurt her other kids. Malika doesn't know our whole story, but I spent YEARS never ever peeing alone unless husband was home and awake. I had to take J into the bathroom with me or she was bruised and bloody - even when I managed to pee in less than 45 seconds this happened! I could NEVER leave my kids in one room and be in another where I couldn't see them. husband had to take Wiz into the restroom with him if I wasn't home (we did NOT want to risk CPS involvement by taking the opposite sex child into the restroom with us, Know what I mean??? Things were already stressful enough.). This tears your heart apart. You lie awake wondering what on earth is wrong wtih the child, the other children, you, your spouse, what you let them do and see, what you don't let them doo and see. There is NEVER a good answer.

    ALL you get is what daisyface is getting from her Ms. Ally - you get told taht if YOU change then the child will change in response. Malika, your kids are too young yet for you to realize that with difficult children this is largely hogwash. It is easy to believe this with a 4yo, adopted or not. But things are much different when they are older. I did get control of my temper when my difficult child was older - around 7-9 I waas working hard on it and finally got it under good control. I wasn't abusive before, but i would yell. I grew up with yelling and no one really talked about anger. I got a book that helped me identify the physical signs of anger as it is building up - and how to handle it better. This let me be a much calmer parent. It did NOT make a huge difference in Wiz. ALL the docs - pediatrician, therapist, psychiatrists, everyone said that it would go a long way to Wiz not being violent. As it was he was spanked very very rarely, not hit any other way except a LIGHT tap on a hando r leg to get him to be aware he was doing something. This was NOT painful even in a mild way, it was just a tap and was teh ONLY other way he was physically disciplines. Spanking was reserved for doing things that would kill you - running into the street, sticking things in outlets, etcc... ONLY. Things that would have a result far mroe painful than the spanking. Even when he was old enough that we could do timeout and talk about the danger and we stopped spanking it did NOTHING to lower how violent he was.

    It is GOOD to learn to be the best parent you can. I am all for that. But all those who tell us over and over that our kids are not behaving like PCs because of the way WE parent or act, well, they are clueless or blind. Mostly they have been treating peopel who are pcs but have difficult child behaviors because their parents are not good parents - they were taught to do those difficult child things. I have a cousin who learned to whine for six hours. After a certain amt of time spent in constant whining, his parents gave in to him. So the next time they tried to hold out longer and he whined longer - to the point that at five years old he would whine nonstop for six HOURS to get something. He was NOT a difficult child, he was a badly behaved easy child because that is what his parents created. THOSE children ARE helped by changing the parents' behavior.

    But a true difficult child, adopted or not, will NOT change for the better for the long term simply because the parent is more loving or gentle or even more consistent. It is not an easy thing to admit, but so many of us have seen this truth that we know that it is the truth.

    I am sorry Malika, if this sounds like I am jumping on you. I know you see what you see through the filter of your life. I just think that maybe you don't quite have the same long term experience to make some of the harsh claims you are making. It IS harsh to tell a parent who has been struggling for years to do EVERYTHING, use every resource, every technique, etc... she can find to help her child that if she just loved him more then he would change and not be a difficult child. I know right now you believe this to be true, but you do not have other children except your difficult child and he is still VERY young. I am glad that the changes you have made have helped your family though.
  17. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Sure, Susiestar. Of course I don't know and of course I am just reacting from what I sense and intuit. And from my own experience. In all fairness, though, I am not the only one doing that here - lots of other posters are too. I have all sorts of things said to me on the forum that don't really fit with my reality on the ground (and lots of things that do, of course) - that's fine, it's just how it goes. I do believe that there is an extra dimension involved with adopted children and lots of people with expertise in the area agree with that. And I don't feel the length of time I have been posting here is really relevant. :)
    I do feel there is some confusion at play here. You say that parenting techniques make little or no difference to the behaviour of a difficult child. But isn't the whole approach of "The Explosive Child" and so on precisely to ADAPT to the reality of the challenging child to enable them to try to learn other ways of behaving and communicating than the difficult and destructive ways? Are you really saying that this is not possible at all?
    I have friends and family, as I have posted, who seem to believe that J is the way he is - often difficult and demanding - because I am not strict enough with him. I know that this is not why he is like he is. So I totally "get" what you say in that regard. But I CAN make a difference to his behaviour by how I respond to him, by the strategies I have in place, and that must be true to some extent for all children, no? I take the point that I don't appreciate just how tough and different it is with older difficult children. I am hoping I won't find out at first hand, but I may very well do. I think it was valid for me to point out - which I did with some difficulty and hestitation, as I stated - what I felt was a sense coming from wintak's post that she was rejecting her boy; I went on to share how I was rejecting my boy and my experience of that. My intention was to say something that was helpful to the situation - yet I can see how it may seem insensitive or arrogant for me to have said what I said. I spoke out because sometimes it is the helpful, if difficult, thing to do in situations to speak out according to one's integrity. If what I said was in any way hurtful or unhelpful - please accept my apology, wintak, and let it go...
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  18. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    You've a week before your psychiatrist appointment, right, wintak?

    You've all been given the needs & the should's on this thread & it's all well intentioned & given with concern & wisdom.

    What are the things, the activities that are self calming to difficult child? Does difficult child love to swing, how about sand boxes? Does he love to dig? Playing video games?

    I'm asking because when the tweedles were around your difficult children age I didn't care what the experts had to say because they didn't live here 24/7. I had to find ways to "manage" xyz while maintaining my sanity & my home.

    My late husband & I fenced the yard, put in a huge swing set & a sand box. It helped wm, especially, with his need to move constantly. (This is the boy when at school/Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was assigned to wear a pedometer & had taken 12,000 steps by noon.) wm, even at almost 17, still needs to move constantly & now he runs 4 miles daily at school to burn off steam.

    So find some way to let your difficult child burn off steam in a positive way. Does difficult child like his bath time - another self calming skill learned in my home for kt.

    I put together sensory boxes for the tweedles - a box filled with rice & beans. My tweedles spent hours sorting & playing in those boxes. kt still does of late.

    I swaddled the tweedles in bed each night to help them calm (helped them feel safe). I rocked & rocked both of them (wm much less because he struggled(s) with that level of emotional demands & physical closeness.

    These are things that helped to some extent here while we were in the throes of getting diagnosis's, sorting out medications & therapies. May sound simplistic, but I had to do something.

    If your difficult child attempts to harm your other children it's time to take him to ER or call 911 for help in transporting him. This is a line in the sand, in my humble opinion, you must draw.

    It's not easy being the full time parent yet alone the full time parent to a difficult child. I'm not going to suggest you get out for coffee with a friend. I'd like to suggest a good book with a glass of wine while taking a bubble bath after your kids are in bed & sleeping.

    wintak, I understand your fears, your numbness, your exhaustion. I know your frustration with the professionals who are not living this situation with your difficult child 24/7. I feel your pain, your anger, your fear, your not knowing from day to day what will happen next. It brought me to my knees more times than I care to admit (tho many here will remember).

    Take care, lady.
  19. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, win, I have to retract some of what I said based on his violence toward siblings. Their safety has to come first and that's where the idea of a group home comes in. I know first hand that not all adopted kids can be saved (nor all biological kids with serious mental disorders). Your son may have been exposed to drugs or alcohol in utero, which causes organic brain damage. This can't be fixed and your other children need a safe home. Yes, you can parent from afar...talk to Timer Lady. She has done this with her two adopted twins for years. Some children CAN NOT live at home. Worse they SHOULD NOT live at home. I also don't think that your attitude has much to do with his behavior. It sounds like he is compromised in being able to process accurate feelings anyway.

    Do what you have to do to save the rest of your family. I am in an adoptive parent group. Unfortunately, many children were damaged irreparably before we even had a chance to show them love. And many of them don't want anything to do with love. I have no idea if eight year old is a risk to his younger siblings, but, as most people know, I had adopted an eleven year old who sexually abused my two younger children over and over again (and dthe younger ones were too afraid of him to tell us...he said he'd kill us all). Use your imagination, but sexually abused does NOT mean he just molested them. So I am very protective of younger children who are living with an older sibling who is aggressive.

    We are on your side and here to listen to you regardless of what you feel. Trust me, as soon as hub and I found out what adoptive child had done, any feelings we had had for him went out the window and we just wanted him gone. We never wanted to see him again and certainly my younger children would have had much worse issues if we had continued to support him. And he really didn't mourn the loss of us. He simply didn't care, other than not liking being locked up in a facility for young sexual predators. Had nothing to do with us.

    I also agree that a semi-difficult four year old is NOTHING like the difficulties of an eight year old who is big and strong and worse AND HAS YOUNG SIBLINGS. Life does not work where you can modify his environment so that he is never upset and as the child gets older, people don't think he's so "cute" anymore, and there is more and more intolerance in society's part. That is why I'm in favor of early interventions...much easier to try to get a professional to help with it now t han when they are 8 or 13. Even then, it often does not work in the long run...it is rose-colored glasses.

    Use your Mom gut. (((Hugs)))
  20. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    First things first... HUGS!

    I can relate to how you feel. Sick and tired of parenting classes and being told you need to change how you react to the difficult child. With so-called "normal" children, this works. Not with most of our difficult children.

    From my perspective - I've taken Onyxx places with me, when I really wanted to go without her. I've spoken softly when she got upset (yelling did not help), and have gotten hurt anyway. I've shown Jett more attention, and he's not interested - he wants to watch TV/play video games/etc. (Then he complains we don't spend enough time with him. UGH.)

    I love my kids. They're not my bios, but they're mine in the sense of the heart. I do NOT always like them. In fact, there are times I wish they'd go away for a while so I could have some peace. I resent the snot out of Onyxx a lot - because she's ALWAYS got to be the center of attention, and if she's not, she'll get in trouble. And when she's not in trouble, she's monopolizing husband so that *I* don't get any time with him. Sometimes it seems like she runs my home. And I hate it. But it's not HER I hate. because I know down deep is my sweet little girl - and I see her frequently enough to remain hopeful.

    That said - any time anyone in the house is in danger - it's time to do something. And doing something isn't always easy. I watch out for Jett, and myself, and husband - because Onyxx will and has hurt us all. Elbowing Jett in the face "by accident" (changed course of walking to do so) is just one of the things I have to look for.

    We are ALL in counseling, and it seems to help us DEAL - even if Onyxx does not respond to us changing our reactions to her behavior - I can keep myself from getting an ulcer at least.