Out of control 18 year old Daughter

[Distressed]

As per the advise of "Midwest Mom" I will post this here. by the way: I added some more information from the original post.

I live in NY with my Husband and 18 year old Daughter. She has gotten so out of control that I am seeking out my options. She has stolen from us, gotten physical with us and we have had to call the police numerous times. She had a beautiful room that she has put holes in the walls and trashed. After the last physical altercation a police officer that came to us advised us to clean out her room and leave nothing but her bed, a dresser and her clothes. We took his advice and followed it. She walked in saw her room, shrugged her shoulders and said "I can live with this" and went to bed. She has been diagnosed with Bi-Polar 1 disorder, ODD, ADD and juvenile myoclonic epilepsy. She is on a lot of medications and only take them when she want to. Reminding her to take them is a fight also and she still forgets. She was smoking pot but hasn't in a while. We know this from random drug tests we make her take. I take her to therapy EVERY Thursday and to the Psychiatrist 2xs a month as well. It seems like a waste of time.

I have been told that by law we are financially responsible for her until she is 21 and can not legally "kick her out", but if she is physically abusive and is stealing from us, what are our rights? We can not be expected to have her arrested every time she does something and continue waiting for "the next time". If she can't respect our property and us she has to leave, but why should we be held responsible for her financially if we are already paying for her room and board here and she refuses to follow the rules that come with it. Does anyone know the answer to this? What are our rights? Please help.

-A desperate Mother

 

[Hound dog]

Welcome to the board. (((hugs)))

First, I have to say I think someone fed you some bull about the you have to be financially responsible for her until she is 21. Never heard of such a thing. 18 is an ADULT in all senses of the word, including financially the only exception is college funding (which in my opinion is screwy anyway) You can most certainly "kick her out". Although you might have to do a legal eviction......a lawyer can help you with that and many parents here have been forced to do it.

Her taking her medications when she remembers is going to make her behavior much worse......and honestly, it's down right dangerous, especially the seizure medications. I wonder if you can get the doctor to help you explain this to her in no uncertain terms? I'm not just talking behavior/mood wise I'm talking in dangerous to her body chemical wise. It's important she take the medications as ordered OR wean off per docs orders, not just take them here and there.

Others have personally dealt with the issue of evicting an adult child, so I'll let them give you the advise on that.

Again welcome, and I'm sorry you needed to find us.

((hugs))

 

[DaisyFace]

Yeah, sorry - NY law states that parents CANNOT kick out a child younger than 21....

What does NY say about filing assault charges? How about theft? Seems to me that you will want to start calling police each and every time your grown child breaks a law AND PRESS CHARGES.

Meanwhile, make life at home unpleasant. You can't kick her out - but you CAN make her want to leave. What can you do within the law that will make her want to go crash at a friend's house instead?

 

[Distressed]

We have had the "It is dangerous to not take your medications as prescribed" Numerous times. It doesn't seem to help. I was also told by her therapist that here in NY we are financially responsible for our children until they are 21 not 18 like every other state in the US. I just don't see how there can't be exclusions like this. Hopefully someone can help with this. by the way What does in my opinion mean? Remember I'm new.

 

[Distressed]

We have called the police every time, we have cleared her room of everything except her bed and dresser and clothes. I have had her committed in a hospital for 2 weeks. I have not pressed charges as of yet because in the hope that one day she will wake up and do the right thing and I don't want to ruin her record since so far it is still clean.

 

[DaisyFace]

I have not pressed charges as of yet because in the hope that one day she will wake up and do the right thing and I don't want to ruin her record since so far it is still clean.

Well, I hate to be blunt - but if SHE is stealing and SHE is assaulting you then SHE is the one who is "ruining her record" - not you.

 

[Distressed]

easier said than done.

 

[DaisyFace]

easier said than done.

Welcome, Distressed...

You have entered the land of Warrior Parents who have done incredibly hard things for the sake of their family. We will support you because we know that deep down, you are a Warrior Parent, too.

It's hard, but it doesn't mean that we don't love our kids. We DO. Parenting a difficult child means that we have to take a road that as parents, we'd never thoight we'd have to travel...

 

[susiestar]

Welcome! You have found a great group of people and we truly have been there done that, so we don't judge.

YOU are an adult and so is your child. You are responsible for your daughter financially but that only means while she is in yoru home. You can't kick her out but you CAN make ANY rules you want in YOUR home. This included curfew and time she must be up and out for the day. I would tell her she has to EARN every luxury, incl food she likes. Provide basic basic food with NO condiments to her. Put a chain around the fridge and a lock on all but ONE cabinet where HER food is. YES, this is unpleasant for you to see and a hassle. The other option is to keep all food that is nice and yummy in YOUR bedroom or locked study. Make sure it has a sturdy door and a deadbolt lock. Keep the keys on your person at all times.

Take the tv, radio, etc... and put them in rooms with locks on the door(s) and keep those locked. She wants to watch/listen/use a computer/whatever? She has to have a job, a clean drug test (and she needs to pay the cost of the drug test out of ehr paycheck as a consequence for NOT being trustworthy and using drugs), and have a clean room.

Let her know that you no longer believe in privacy for anyone under 21 - from the parents. Search her room often. If you find ANYHTING like drugs, paraphernalia, thngs you think are stolen? Call the police.

It is NOT time to worry about her record. It is time to worry that she will hurt you or do this to someone else and get SHOT for trying to steal from their home or business. MOST states allow you to shoot someone stealing from you or breaking in. I know that was a big worry at one point with my brother (who did get shot at several tiems, unknown to our parents).

Set a curfew and if she isn't home by 10 or 11pm, the door is locked and you don't open it. At the time you leave for work she must be up and out of the house, pref to work or school. Be loud, obnoxious, SING if you can sing badly (Children's songs like Barney are great to wake them up and make them leave - I am serious, it works magic with my kds, lol.) You cannot force her to live at home after 18 and the GOAL is to get her to leave the home. As long as she CAN move back home, she CANNOT force you legally to pay for her to live outside of your home. By Can I mean her room is there but the rules are the same - she doesn't have to liek the rules, she just has to have a place she CAN live in in your home.

Most importantly, think about what her life will be like in ten years if she does NOT learn that she cannot steal and harm people and property NOW. At 18 the courts will show some leniency. At 25 or 28 they will NOT, esp if she has continued to do these things. If she gets into trouble she will most likely have a PO and they will impose rules nad monitor her and there will be consequences. Usually you can have a record expunged if you clean up your act and stay clean for a period of several years (here it is 5 and I know one person who had 3 serious gun related felonies expunged after rehab and 5 yrs of no charges/involvement with police.

Right now your daughter KNOWS that you don't want her record/future messed up. She COUNTS on you protecting her and not calling the cops. She feels totally free from real consequences and that you will rescue her no matter what. You need to do the tough thing and make her face some real consequences. She is NOT going to straighten up until you stop protecting her from the consequences of her actions. This means allowing her to feel the REAL WORLD consequences of stealing and hurting people and damaging property, which means calling the cops and pressing charges. WHile in custody they will give her the medications she is on, and she will be cared for. it isn't fun but it isn't supposed to be.

PLEASE attend alanon, or families anonymous meetings. Also read Boundaries, by Townsend and Cloud, and Parenting your Teen with Love and Logic. Love and Logic (L&L) has a number of books and this is written for parents with teens. While your daughter is an adult, your state laws (which are stupid because you have NO ability to force treatment but every responsibility for housing and feeding your daughter) are forcing an extended teenage period. I think it would be a very helpful book.

Your goal here is NOT to be mean, but to make her become a productive member of society. You have effectively NO tools for delivering consequences other than not providing luxuries nad not giving her cash (with dirty drug tests I would not ever give her cash for any reason, or a credit card. she needs a job if she watns cash). The only real tool you have is to press charges. It may not help right away and you may have to do it more than a few times, but in time it will teach her that she cannot do thngs to you.

I do think the books and meetings will be a big help and support to you, as will we. We understand how hard this is, and how upsetting. We also know that it takes small steps to get to the point where you can do things like press charges.

by the way, you DO know that by financially responsible it means responsible for the things that welfare would provide, NOT the luxuries taht most of us have in our homes? NOT for whatever she wants to do or to pay her bills if she wants to move out or lvie elsewhere? In most areas, foster kids get $50twice a year to buy clothing and shoes, they have 4 pr pants, 7 shirts, 1 pr pajamas, 7 pr socks, 1 pr shoes, 1 coat. That is IT. I got this list from a social worker at a psychiatric hospital where my son was a patient for a period of time. A bedroom has a mattress, sheet, blanket (ONE), pillow (ONE), a light (ceiling light usually), and their clothing - a box is fine for storage, a dresser provides places to hide things. That is IT. Food can be super basic - cold cereal (corn flakes or whatever is the cheapest), peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, ramen noodles, oatmeal. The basic to live on. You are NOT required to provide tv, computer, phone or cell phone, car, cookies, trinkets, jewelry, etc... With her medical issues you do have to provde medicine and needed appts, but if she refuses therapy, medications, to see the psychiatrist, then you don't have to provide them. We know you would far rather provide them, but if they are not helping, and it is a fight, then she needs to experience the consequences of that choice.

It isn't easy to get to this point. But it is helpful for her to realze that she is NOT entitled to the stuffshe wants and that she MUST live by the laws that govern everyone, even in your home. if she cannot learn this by the parenting you ahve given her, then she needs to learn the hard way, which is through police involvement. It isn't fun. But it is likely the ONLY way she will have a life that has any quality.

Work in baby steps. Get the books, find a meeting of families anon or alanon or narc anon. You want the family meetings. As she is having dirty drug tests, she has a problem with substances even if she won't get treatment. This means the entire family has a problem, and the BEST way to get things to change s to get help through a 12 step program or another family recovery program.

 

[Hound dog]

For the record, NY state is insane.

Ok, so you're responsible for her financially (like I said, insane) until she is 21. Does that mean she is not considered a legal adult until she is 21?? What happens to that financial responsibility should she move out of your home? Good grief, this law makes no sense to me if she has all the freedoms of an adult, yet your still legally responsible for her.

I'm asking the part about are you still financially responsible for her should she choose to move out........because if not, that would be a big boon for you.

I wonder if you could talk to a lawyer about this and get the nitty gritty of it spelled out for you in your situation? Because lay people interpreting the law can often be wrong and sometimes there are loop holes that can give you some elbow room that the public doesn't know about.

As for her being hunky dory with her room?? It's a ploy to make you believe she's ok with it. Keep the room the same. Eventually, it will get to her. In the meantime there is nothing in it for you to really have to replace.

Do you pay for her cell phone? You can take it away. Does she have a computer? Yup that too. Video game system? Sure thing, take it. Try to think of things that for her are a privilege, even less obvious ones. She can earn them back as she learns to follow house rules and treat you and your home with respect.

I dunno. I'm going to have to think on this a while. That law has your hands tied in some ways and it's ridiculous.

For the physical abuse, call the police and have her arrested. I know this may sound harsh and cruel. I know it's not easy to do. But the behavior will continue to escalate until you start taking this step. Because each time you don't make the call and have charges filed on her, you're reinforcing with YOUR behavior that it is ok for her to abuse people. The same with stealing.

She has a mental illness to be certain. But she also knows right from wrong. Her mental illnesses do not excuse her behaviors, they simply explain them. Your daughter makes her own choices, right or wrong. Yes, unstable she will make more wrong ones than right ones. But they are still her choices and they still have consequences. That is the way the real world works....and at some point, she will have to live in the real world. The sooner she learns this hard lesson, the better for her.

Yup. I know that can be a very hard step for a parent to have to make. Some of us don't even have to think about it. (me for example) For some it takes time to finally get to that point because they see it as they're hurting their child's future or whatever other excuse they come up with. But would you not call the police if this was a stranger doing this to you? Even if said stranger was mentally ill? And thanks to this stupid state law, it may be your only alternative to get her to see that treatment is a valuable tool to a successful life.

It's your home. You have every right NOT to be abused or stolen from in your own home, even by your own child. It might help put it into perspective to call a local domestic violence shelter and to talk to one of the counselors because abuse from your kid IS domestic violence.

I am so sorry you're having to go through this.

(((hugs)))

 

[keista]

I did a bit of research and the law seems vague at best. I think the original purpose of it was if a young adult, without financial resources, cause some serious damage, then one could go after the parents as well. This law also allows for child support payments through age 21.

I also found this informative piece which lists by state the $ limits of parental liability which are set by state statute. Never knew there was such a thing.

https://web.archive.org/web/2012081...M/Resources/Parental-Responsibility-Chart.pdf

 

[DammitJanet]

I also think this law was made so that parents were supposed to support their kids through college but it has made things really difficult for parents of difficult child's. I know there is something about social services and there was a parent here from New York with an adult kid a few years ago. I cant remember all the details but from what I remember it went something like this.

You can make your house rules very basic such as curfew at 10 pm during the week...or even 9. 11 on weekends. No drugs or alcohol at all. Room to be picked up. Medication to be taken at all times. No car rides except to doctor appts or therapy. If she is still in school she must attend school. If not in school she must get a job.

Things like that. Now if she isnt in the house by 10. You can lock her out. She is breaking a house rule. That is within your rights.

As far as you not wanting to call the police and having her arrested, well I do understand your sentiments but she is the one who is committing the crimes of property damage. If she were doing this to anyone else they would have her arrested in a minute. You need to do it too. I know its easier said than done but I have done it. Most of us here have done it. Or maybe not most but lots of us. We know its not easy.

 

[compassion]

What has worked for me is advocating for her to get SSI-D, then having her in a seperate place. i do beleive my daughter is quite ill and needs a lot of supports. I beelive she is ill, not bad. In my experince, the stealing,etc. was part of the manic side of her bipolar illness. We had a quite a round of that this year. Once her medications were changed to lithium, much , much better. I could not reason with her. In my daughter's case, it is high impulsivity and I have to protect myself/lock everything, etc. My point is you can provide support while protecting yourself and not living under the same roof.

 

[rejectedmom]

Ny is not the only state that has 21 as legal age. When I lived in MD I delt with the same thing with my difficult child#1. She was violent to me abusive to her sibs and non compliant with her medications and there was little I could do about it. She also got into lots of fights outside of the home and damaged peoples property in retalliation for percieved hurts. Honestly, she was a nightmare and held us all hostage. The thought of procecuting my own daughter was beyond my comprehention at that time. (I think differently now due to more Parenting of difficult children history).

Unfortunately, the way the laws are written it puts the parents in a sort of a limbo because JVS stops servicing them at 18. The idea of putting an 18 year old in prison with real adult offenders is daunting and when it is your own child even more so. My daughter was physically very beautiful and that added even more worry to our scenario.

Medically a parent cannot force their difficult children into treatment without a court order after age 18 either. In adddition the difficult child can refuse to include parents in their therapy and treatment even though parents are required by law to pay for it.

In an effort to protect ourselves from loosing everything due to something difficult child might have done, we carried a very expensive 3M (yes million) liability insurance policy in case she hurt someone but eventually due to her poor driving record she was banned from our insurance entirely. To this day, 18 years later, we are forced to sign a rider that states she will not drive any of our vehicles.

I held my breath for 3 years till I could legally put her out then I paid for her apartment. She went though jobs and roomates and boyfriends like crazy. Got beat up a couple of times after starting fights but never prosecuted. In hindsight I am not sure if that (not being prosecuted) was good or bad because the behavior continued. A few years ago she had an altercation in which she was hurt but so was the other person who required stiches at the ER. I think it scared difficult child#1 because she had a baby and she could have ended up in jail. The other person involved let her sweat it out for a while but didn't press charges for the "child's sake". it may have been enough because as far as I know difficult child#1 has not been violent since.

I would seek a consultation with a lawyer that is versed with the laws in your state. It might be that if they move out on their own accord and maintain their own residence you are no longer financially responsible for them... but you should ask a lawyer about that.

 

[AnnieO]

My daughter isn't 18 yet - she's 17 - and she's technically my stepdaughter. But, we have to provide for her.

We didn't press charges when she stole from us, beat the SNOT out of me and her brother and even her father. The custody lawyer advised my husband not to. She took this to mean she could continue to do more of the same. She began taking drugs, was arrested several times, including once for a DV that started at husband and ended up with him having to pull her off ME. FINALLY my husband pulled his head out of the sand and said ENOUGH - after she was caught smoking pot in a vacant house that she and a friend had broken into - and then, just a week later, physically attacked him - and then, a week after THAT, accused his nephew of unspeakable things that (if you knew nephew) aren't even remotely likely.

The first time she tried to hit me? She was 11. She really hurt me at age 14, and again at 15. We FINALLY got her into court-ordered behavioral treatment after the fiasco last summer.

Thing is - if she is physically assaulting you? That's ABUSE. Domestic violence. And NO ONE SHOULD EVER HAVE TO SUFFER THAT, at the hands of a spouse, sibling, child, or stranger.

If you press charges you might help her get her head on straight. If you don't it's a license to do whatever she wants - and trust me, she won't "leave" at 21.

It's hard to hear this stuff, I know.

 

[Distressed]

Thank you all for the posts. They are all very helpful and knowing that there are people out there that care and will offer support really helps. A few of you agree with me that NY State laws pertaining to our under 21 year old what do you all call them "difficult children" are insane. They really do keep your hands tied.

Since my last post it has only gotten worse. Not so much for her, but more for me and my Husband. The day I last posted she finally woke up around 10pm and proceeded to get dressed and ready to go out. Her curfew is 10pm so this was unacceptable. Since we cleaned out her room of everything she was looking for any one of the hundred pairs of sneakers she owns. I told her whatever pair she was wearing when she took off the night before was what she needed to wear not knowing she ran away in slippers. I told her it was too late to get them for her and it was too late to go out anyway so she should reconsider leaving because I will be locking all the doors and she will not be allowed in for the night. She then gave me the finger while she walked out the door and held it up all the way to the curb. She did not come home ALL night. Even if she would have she wouldn't have gotten in because we changed the locks. I went to work today and when I came home for lunch she was sitting on my driveway waiting for me. I was never so happy and mad at the same time to see her. Just knowing she was okay was good. She said she wanted to get some of her stuff so I let her in. While she was here she unlocked a few windows in the house thinking I would be going back to work and she would be able to get back in. I did not return to work and 40 minutes later she came back saying she forgot something. She saw the windows locked again and unlocked them again. She left and hasn't been back since. She was supposed to have an appointment with her psychiatrist tonight but she never came home for it. (even thought I reminded her) I told her that I wanted her in the house by 9pm tonight so we can talk and she never came home. She knows I will lock the doors again at 10pm for the night. This sucks. This really sucks. I am afraid to leave my house to go to work because I feel like she will try to break in. I told her if she did I would have her arrested and she said "this is my house to you know" I told her it absolutely is NOT her house and that she does not pay for this house and that if she does break in and I call the police she will be arrested and reminded her as she reminds me ALL the time that she is 18 now. I'm sick of this stuff.

 

[Star*]

Distressed -

Hi and Hugs - HUGE ones - because it sounds like you are at the same place we were with our son when we (he and I) had the blow up of the century. I probably should have been carted off by one of any number of agencies. Name one - they could have come. I was lobing 3-4 lb. rocks at my son and using language that had built up inside of me for YEARS and YEARS. Funny though, after biting my tongue clear to a nub all those years and being the "bigger person" and saying nothing? I was surprised I could muster any audible words at all, but sister let me tell you - Even the neighbors pit bulls a 1/2 mile down the road that NEVER EVER shut up, were silent as the grave. My own fiance tried to come out and get in the middle of the affair and soon found out it was ill advised and nearly got co-cocked, and just stood back to call 911 should anyone need medical assistance. I'm still finding (ashamedly) rocks on the other side of the property. That was almost 3.5 years ago. My son was something like 16.5 going on 33. With a mouth to rival the worst man-child you'd ever heard and said things that still tear at my heart if I think about them - horrible awful things. He destroyed my house, he destroyed his room, he destroyed our relationship and then I'm told "Well you're responsible for him" BOY OH BOY. And my options here are what? Turn him in, ruin his life, waste my time - gosh wonderful.
Well we'd already done THAT - and it got him a felony charge. FUN! Yup the police lied to us, and we did the right, parental thing and it was the way wrong thing to do. So I get where you are coming from - BUT...in the long run? It WAS a right thing to do. Stealing and treating people like dirt just couldn't go on.
So we put him on a train, packed his bags, and let him go live life.
We reported him every single time he didn't come home at night -
Reported him every single time he didn't come home by noon the next day - AND the reason that we did that under advice of council is because - SHOULD something happen (god forbid) to your child while they are OUT and about -and you are having a much deserved (no one takes that from you) break? AND YOU do NOT report a minor as a runaway? When they are found? Let me tell you about the responsibiltiy and YOU getting into BIG TIME TROUBLE and being liable. IT IS HUGE. SO ---my only bit of advice here - is EACH and every time she runs? Make a report. Doesn't come home? Report. Know where she's at? Tell the police.

Eventually - they get tired of her beeswax, and tell her in POLICE terms that she will understand, and it starts a papertrail that you CAN take to Family court to get a hearing with a family court judge and get a petition of incorrigibility. This means YOU GET HELP - and she gets placement - out of the house of somekind for some length of time. Will it help her? Probably not. Will it give you a cooling off period? ABSOLUTELY. Could she learn something? Maybe. She may get lucky get evaluated, and get on medications that help and want the help. I rather doubt it at her age...but anything is possible. I pray all the time for possible and hope.

The other option is to get yourself into counseling, and learn how to deal with this child that is ruining your life and running your house and figure out the law until she's of age - do nothing other than that, and suffer through it until you can legally put her out, come here get support and hopefully learn to detach from her behaviors, get some tips and try to survive it. Not the best advice, but along the way you do pick up tips from the parents here that help you cope. NOT wanting your daughter to have a record is commendable but unrealistic at this point to think that she's not going to go out into the real world and treat others like she's treating you. It just prolongs the process. Really. There are a few exceptions of course, but with the severity you describe? Well it could happen and I'll leave it at that if that's your hope.

Glad you found us, and glad you're here. Don't take the suggestions as YOU MUSTs.......it's just suggestions - take what you can from it - and hang in there. No one is saying what you should do, have to do - there's just a lot of experience whirling here - and well I guess if I had all the answers too? I'd have my own show, and a job, and be somehwere in Eastern Africa looking at cool wildlife through a camera lense not sitting in my bedroom typing and looking for a new job....and wondering what my sons doing. lol.....see....we're all in it together.

Hugs & Welcome
Star

 

[Calamity Jane]

Hi Distressed,
I'm so sorry for your problems with-your daughter. I live in the area, and I heard about the six flags crash. Truly horrible, and the driver was arraigned the other day for DUI-prescription pills. What a tragedy. I hope your daughter is behaving better.
As far as her behavior problems are concerned, what does the psychiatrist suggest? There are wilderness programs, boarding schools, etc. I'd consult with him/her privately, one-on-one, just to get a reading on suggestions going forward. No one has to suffer abuse like that. I hope she's not on drugs that aren't detectable in the home kits, like K2 Spice, huffing, salvia, etc. These drugs, and a new one, whose name I can't recall, are all readily available. Do you know if she's drinking alcohol at all?

 

[peg2]

She can't abuse you,as someone said, domestic violence is unacceptable and agaisnt the law. If you let it continue, it will!!!! Easier said then done, yes.............but I did it with my then 19 yers old son, has to get the restraining order, I would not be abused in my own home. You wouldn't take it from a husband, so a child is no different.
So sorry and it might sound harse, but they have to want the help themselves. I used to be afaid to go to work, not acceptable. Why should I jeopardize my health!!! They don't believe you will actually do it, mine didn't; after 2 years I still have the RO and he won't speak to anyone in the family. I do continue to try and get him help, when he does contact his older brother. He is on my inusrance and I always try to get him to come Occupational Therapist (OT) my own therapy sessions, but he CAN NOT live with me....
Good luck.

 

[susiestar]

You would probably get a great deal of support by going to a domestic violence center. They can help you wokr through your feelings toward yourself and your child and the whole situation. They also can help you figure out a legal way to protect yourself from her violence. It may take a bit of creativity on their part f they haven't had a parent abused by a child before, but they CAN help you. Our local DV center hadn't had a parent abuse situation so they had to do some work to help figure out the best way to help me. They were not hesitant at all to do this and they were a HUGE source of support for me. Even better, they were totally FREE. Most DV centers can help you get a restraining order or file a PINS petition (person in need of supervision) so your difficult child would have a PO who would help monitor them. They also can help a judge order yoru child out of your home and end that stupid financial responsibility koi.