Oy vey, oy vey

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Malika, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't you know it? There I am kind of congratulating myself that these past weeks J has been something of a little easy child - no tantrums, no running away from the house to play in the village, sweet and co-operative... sound familiar? Those being lulled into security periods... except that this one has been longer than usual.
    Tonight is the night I - sometimes, not always - go to my meditation group in the local town. J is looked after by the childminder he doesn't really like because my best efforts to "educate" her, she punishes him by making him stand in the corner, etc. Anyway, when I went to pick him up from the after school service at the school, he was crying, being punished by standing away from the other children - apparently he had hit a little girl (though he says he was just trying to tickle her) and then would not stay where he was so ended up being there for a long time... Anyway, then some monstrous J appeared when I tried to leave with him. Shouting, crying, hitting me, running away. Cut a long story short, it took me twenty plus minutes to get him out and in the end I had to pick him up kicking and screaming. Nobody at school had ever seen him like that and I was taken aback by this violence out of nowhere. In the end, I was too late to go to my meditation group, which leaves me feeling somewhat resentful and cross, as if I am being held to ransom by a six year old. At the same time it's me the grown up, him the child who doesn't really know what he's doing, etc.
    Key factor COULD be that apparently he had had nothing to eat since lunchtime. Normally he has an afternoon snack that he takes with him but today he had eaten it all in the morning.
    As I was leaving, a woman who I am supposed to be friends with just made a kind of grimace as she went to pick up her little boy. Great, thanks a lot for your support and compassion...
    I do feel concerned about future right now. medications is NOT going to help this sort of thing... it's just going to create as many problems as it wears off as it seemingly solves.
    Now he has had supper and is happily watching television beside me, sucking his thumb. The ugly, aggressive teenager of earlier has disappeared. But it shows me that it is there, within him...
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  2. buddy

    buddy New Member

    That was not out of nowhere! He had been abused (in the states there are legal limits to how long a child can be secluded from a group) and made to feel terrible. He held it together and the transition (plus probably being hungry) was just too much. (I'm guessing).

    Seclusion for a long time is abusive and demeaning. Short time outs and breaks can be helpful, but being put in a place where other kids can see him and he can see them having fun, and I suspect they were not especially encouraging to him about doing better and calming etc......I imagine they were angry and cross in their tone......well that is just very different from a time out, in my humble opinion. I'm really mad at that teacher for hurting my nephew like that! Sorry if I am stepping over my boundary, they are not listening to you and that ticks me off so much.

    I'm glad you got him out and home safely. (A dear friend has a child who is in diagnosis limbo land for his whole life and now at age 8 or 9 (I forget) he had a rage at school yesterday tipping tables etc. and he is now in the psychiatric hospital. They called an ambulance from school! so I am a little sensitive. This happens so much and it builds up. )

    I wish you had more options. You do so beautifully with him on your own. But you need breaks to be able to maintain that. I want to borrow that magic wand flying around the board, maybe we can fix this for you....anyone know where one is?????
  3. TeDo

    TeDo CD Hall of Fame

    I agree with Buddy's interpretation. PLUS, I would add that he was WRONGLY punished for trying to tickle someone and then, when he told you about it you didn't "fix" it (just an interpretation). Yea, difficult child 1 had those type of misunderstandings causing extreme punishments that he did not take lying down and quiet because he didn't do anything wrong. He brought his anger and frustration home where it was safe to express it. I also watched it happen for so long that he went into an extremely deep depression. I hope that doesn't ever happen to J.
  4. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    You see, this is what really has me thinking about a different kind of schooling, if I can find it, one where he will be understood and not punished. One where his strengths (which are many) are brought out rather than his frailties. To be fair, the two assistants who were on duty (not teachers, this is after school hours) are quite sympathetic, not the unnecessarily vindictive kind. I don't know exactly what went on, to be fair - it's quite possible J did more than tickle. Or it's possible that that's basically true. In any event, they treat J more or less as if he were a regular kid which is okay up to a point. But beyond that point it all goes a bit haywire. J is adamant he doesn't want to leave the school and seems to love going every morning... which DOES make it into a dilemma. It isn't just because it's what he knows. He would let me know if he didn't like it there, he really would. I am worried, TeDo, yes, about things getting worse in the conventional system.
  5. buddy

    buddy New Member

    But fear of the unknown may be driving his being ok with the known. I mean I am sure he is not miserable all the time he is there for sure, you'd see that. But he would much rather not change schools, most kids would not. I wouldn't ask him at all even if you plan to stay. If you do move it will add a layer of mom didn't listen and I said NO! to it all. Just a thought. (I think of abused kids who never want to separate from highly abusive homes, its what they know.....of course this is not that dramatic, but it still is serious)...

    I think you are right to question it. I know this is just the care place but still it is a big part of things for him.
  6. TeDo

    TeDo CD Hall of Fame

    I still think he doesn't want a change because 1) its familiar but also 2) because the "good" days outweigh the bad days in his little mind. He can't see where things can go and he can't see the whole picture. He is only able to see and hear and process the hear and now with the very recent past. At his age, he's not capable of that. You may not KNOW the future but it's your job to plan for as successful a one as possible.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    That is abuse. I get angry just thinking about it. I don't blame him for acting out that way and I don't care if he hit the little girl or not. That is too long and too extreme a punishment even for a "typical" child. It would have made my "normal" child cry.
  8. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    And THEN you add in the "nothing to eat all afternoon because he had eaten it all in the morning" and ... you're guaranteed to have problems that are beyond his control.

    After-school care groups here either provide snacks as part of what you pay, OR have back-up snacks if the child hasn't brought anything (something "common", and the parent just replaces what is used). Nothing to eat for six hours? Poor J.

    (and poor you...)
  9. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, I have already asked J about it... because I feel I need to take his views into account - not follow them at any price, but take them into account, yes. Structure and routine ARE important for J, as for all ADHD children according to what I've read. I would feel happier with an alternative school, that is for sure. But this one is one of the best I'm going to find in the state sector - tiny numbers, family atmosphere, all the children known well as individuals. What I must do is try to organise a team meeting with the psychiatrist, who is at least very sympathetic to and understanding of ADHD kids and what does/doesn't work with them, and the school staff...
  10. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Just an update... this morning J was, as he usually is, sweet and affectionate. And calm. He didn't want to but I talked about what had happened yesterday. He told me that he had been angry with one of the assistants and that he had wanted to play before he left the school instead of leaving like that. Makes sense. I said that he could have spoken, he could have told me that, that I would always listen to him and try to find a solution if I could - getting upset and angry like that just meant everyone got upset and angry and no solution could be found. He seemed to understand.
    Up to now I have not pushed things like getting the psychiatrist to come and speak to the school in a meeting, which she is willing to do. Partly because I don't want to make J different from the others and partily because I don't have full confidence that they would really understand even after that and implement changes such as not punishing him all the time. We are getting to the heart of the matter... what do you do when people don't know anything about ADHD (or whatever) and don't really want to know? Yes, there is a law here as elsewhere that children with differences have to be accommodated but in practice... It becomes clearer that another, more human system is probably going to be better for us all but J does also need to learn to read and write, etc...
    I do have to take a decision about all this, obviously. Where is the place, is there a place, where J's differences and difficulties can be viewed with understanding, tolerance and compassion rather than incomprehension, intolerance and judgement? Which is probably the 64,000 dollar question for us all.
  11. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    Glad he had a better morning and you two discussed it a little.

    About the meeting, I hear you about worrying a team meeting with psychiatrist wouldn't change anything possibly and how upsetting that will feel for you. At the same time, please set up the meeting, waste no time about it. Your J has not a thing to lose. At worst, things remain unchanged and you are back to the drawing board about seeing if any other options exist out there. At best, the team "gets it" and follows up with changes, or at least if they don't truly get it, they agree to implement helpful changes and see how that goes. Down the middle, they could agree but be pitiful in their changes and require future meetings to tweak and perfect the plan to help/change as well as to continue to educate them. The only time J loses absolutely without a doubt, is if everyone plugs along doing what their doing. Arrange the meeting, plot the intent and the approach ahead of time. Focus on the biggest needs of J in the first meeting. At completion of the meeting, pre arrange a new meeting date to follow up and assess what is working and what is not working after they've had a decent period of time to get into the swing of things with the new approaches to managing J.

    If there are no IEP type things where you are, perhaps use a US version and tweak it to be a little less formal. Bring it to the meeting and explain how a US IEP works, the reason they exist and the process of coming back for future meetings to continue tweaking the IEP when and where needed. Let them know that you find the idea helpful and though it isnt legally binding as in the US, It would make a great voluntary guideline for the staff with concrete written outcomes for J.

    Hopefully they will surprise you and be receptive. I just don't see what you've got to lose by giving it a go, but I see no good coming from not attempting it.

    Wishing you and J luck as always. I always have a good feeling at how it will all work out for J. You're very attentive to his needs, so in the end he's in good hands. Hope you get your meditation outing next week. Down time without parenting is so important.
  12. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    You have done alot of reading on difficult child issues, methods of teaching, possible interventions as well as medications. I would suggest that you prepare a list for yourself of what others might be expected to do in attempting to help your child while keeping in mind that the other children in the environment have parents eager for them to learn as much as possible, as well. The IEP's that are used in my area likely would not be helpful for J. Before calling a meeting or having a full discussion with the psychiatrist I'd suggest making your own list and mulling it over for awhile. If you take that list with you to visit the psychiatrist the two of you can discuss your ideas and his ideas. Lastly the meeting at the school would be about ways that J might benefit from a united front.

    I, for one, never thought I would have a difficult child. Observing other parents with children who behaved inappropriately I truthfully believed they just didn't "get" parenting. Obviously I learned the hard way that all children are not created equal and that other parents avoided my difficult children just as I had avoided others. Painful life lesson, sigh. Good luck.DDD
  13. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Big gap to breach before we could get to that point, DDD. First the staff of the school would have to understand something of what ADHD is and have some sympathy for the fact that J does not "choose" to act as he does most of the time. It would be best for the psychiatrist to talk to them first; they would listen to an expert. Incidentally, the private tutor came to the house on Saturday to help J with his reading. He concentrated, while jiggling around of course, for well over half an hour and seemed to do well. She said he would be reading properly soon, "without a doubt".
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Of course...
    1) SHE isn't making a big deal about his "jiggling around", and
    2) HE only has HER to focus on, not... all the other kids, etc.

    Sounds like the tutor will be useful!