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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 126072" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I could help you in Australia, but not here.</p><p></p><p>I suspect the laws are such as to allow someone autonomy when they are old enough legally to get a job and keep it. In other words, once he's in the workplace, unless he has made it clear that you are to be given access to his work information, it is confidential.</p><p></p><p>If this were not the case, it would be too open to abuse by unfit or non-custodial parents.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, when you went to his workplace and they said this to you, in front of him, you lost authority. Not good. A discreet enquiry would have been better. Maybe if he hadn't been present, the boss would have quietly told you. But he can't tell you in front of difficult child, if telling you is possibly actionable (which makes me think that this is confidential).</p><p>Think - if he were older and you were his wife/SO who turned up asking these questions, giving you the answers could cause a lot of very embarrassing outcomes for the workplace, for the worker, for the partner. A wife who does that is showing a lack of faith in her partner. A mother who does this is publicly showing a lack of faith in her child, which doesn't look good either for him or for you.</p><p>It also will badly eat into his respect for you - it backfired badly, in other words.</p><p></p><p>I had a co-worker whose wife worked in the same department, but in another area. She would often drop in so I knew her well. But I also strongly suspected that he cheated on her, every chance he got (he really was a nasty piece of work). It would have been very risky for me to tell her - he would have found out and made my life even more unpleasant. But whenever she was going away on a conference, he would make some excuse about being needed at work and then secretly put in for leave at the same time. He threatened me with dire consequences if I told her about his leave, and the personnel office would never have told his wife because it was considered confidential.</p><p></p><p>You are concerned that your son is lying to you about when his shifts are, and perhaps staying out partying when he's told you he's working.</p><p></p><p>So what is your specific concern? Are you worried he will lose his job? If he does, it will be entirely his own fault, and a valuable lesson. </p><p></p><p>Are you worried that his late hours and perhaps too many shifts are interfering with his studies? Again, if he flunks it will be his own fault. But why do we go to school? It is to get an education so we can get a job. He HAS a job. If later on in his life he decides he wants a different job or perhaps a career, he can go back and study for it then.</p><p></p><p>Are you worried because you don't know where he is at any given moment? OK, this could be putting him at risk but he IS 17, this also will bring its own consequences.</p><p></p><p>Are you worried primarily because he is being less than honest with you? This is common with teens, even PCs. You need to begin to let go.</p><p></p><p>Are you worried he could be in serious danger? Then watch and wait.</p><p></p><p>I think you need to back away quietly. Say nothing, don't indicate a change of tactics. Stop pushing and he might stop rocking the boat just to see you react. He seems to be having fun, playing cat and mouse - instead, treat him like a person with responsibilities. GIVE him some responsibilities - get him to bring home the milk or the bread. Make him do his own laundry. Make EVERYONE in the house take a turn with doing the laundry. Instead of being the parent with two children, turn the household into a flatmate situation. It will be good training for the boys (ALL boys should have the same domestic skills as all girls, and vice versa). Learn to involve the kids to work as a team.</p><p>I did this with difficult child 3 today. I wanted to teach him how to make damper (a sort of scone dough cooked over an open fire). So I began to make his lunch (pizza made with a slice of bread as base) and talked him through rubbing the butter into the flour. He didn't want to do it, but I pointed out that he wanted his lunch as soon as possible, I would help when I was finished making the pizzas and they were in the oven, but until then, he could save me time. </p><p>We worked as a team. </p><p></p><p>Another example - the older two don't like peeling potatoes, but they DO like what I cook with them. I promised to make potatoes dauphinois but I couldn't start until they peeled enough potatoes for it.</p><p>There were no arguments. And I made sure to thank them all for their help.</p><p></p><p>If you still need to know what difficult child is up to, then learn to play detective discreetly. Either yourself or someone you know (but who difficult child doesn't know well) can wander past the shop when difficult child is supposed to be there. Ring him at work - make sure you have a plausible reason. "Can you please bring home some extra kebabs when you finish?"</p><p></p><p>If he's not where he's supposed to be, say nothing. Just make a note of it, and keep observing.</p><p></p><p>If he's not working much but is instead going off with his friends, it will show. He will not have as much money as he should have if he WERE working all those shifts. He will be more tired. His boss might ring looking for him when he's not there - the problem about lying like this, you can sometimes get things muddled and go out when you ARE supposed to be working.</p><p></p><p>Frankly, he should be telling you when he's working, purely as a matter of house courtesy. So should your husband. Just as you both should be telling your kids where you will be and when. </p><p></p><p>He will be 18 soon. There are lot of of things he can legally do at 18. Is he prepared for that responsibility? How do you think he would manage if you stepped back entirely, did not wake him in the mornings; made him cook occasional meals; made HIM do a few turns in the laundry; made him do the shopping occasionally, made him budget to pay the utilities etc.</p><p></p><p>What are his plans? Surely he is hoping to one day (maybe soon) leave home? How well prepared is he for this? Does HE know what he's likely to be in for?</p><p></p><p>Watch and observe quietly. Step back. Then see how he copes, with you doing less for him. </p><p></p><p>Mind you, it IS far to warn him that he is going to have to get himself up in the mornings. You DO need to play fair in this!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 126072, member: 1991"] I could help you in Australia, but not here. I suspect the laws are such as to allow someone autonomy when they are old enough legally to get a job and keep it. In other words, once he's in the workplace, unless he has made it clear that you are to be given access to his work information, it is confidential. If this were not the case, it would be too open to abuse by unfit or non-custodial parents. Unfortunately, when you went to his workplace and they said this to you, in front of him, you lost authority. Not good. A discreet enquiry would have been better. Maybe if he hadn't been present, the boss would have quietly told you. But he can't tell you in front of difficult child, if telling you is possibly actionable (which makes me think that this is confidential). Think - if he were older and you were his wife/SO who turned up asking these questions, giving you the answers could cause a lot of very embarrassing outcomes for the workplace, for the worker, for the partner. A wife who does that is showing a lack of faith in her partner. A mother who does this is publicly showing a lack of faith in her child, which doesn't look good either for him or for you. It also will badly eat into his respect for you - it backfired badly, in other words. I had a co-worker whose wife worked in the same department, but in another area. She would often drop in so I knew her well. But I also strongly suspected that he cheated on her, every chance he got (he really was a nasty piece of work). It would have been very risky for me to tell her - he would have found out and made my life even more unpleasant. But whenever she was going away on a conference, he would make some excuse about being needed at work and then secretly put in for leave at the same time. He threatened me with dire consequences if I told her about his leave, and the personnel office would never have told his wife because it was considered confidential. You are concerned that your son is lying to you about when his shifts are, and perhaps staying out partying when he's told you he's working. So what is your specific concern? Are you worried he will lose his job? If he does, it will be entirely his own fault, and a valuable lesson. Are you worried that his late hours and perhaps too many shifts are interfering with his studies? Again, if he flunks it will be his own fault. But why do we go to school? It is to get an education so we can get a job. He HAS a job. If later on in his life he decides he wants a different job or perhaps a career, he can go back and study for it then. Are you worried because you don't know where he is at any given moment? OK, this could be putting him at risk but he IS 17, this also will bring its own consequences. Are you worried primarily because he is being less than honest with you? This is common with teens, even PCs. You need to begin to let go. Are you worried he could be in serious danger? Then watch and wait. I think you need to back away quietly. Say nothing, don't indicate a change of tactics. Stop pushing and he might stop rocking the boat just to see you react. He seems to be having fun, playing cat and mouse - instead, treat him like a person with responsibilities. GIVE him some responsibilities - get him to bring home the milk or the bread. Make him do his own laundry. Make EVERYONE in the house take a turn with doing the laundry. Instead of being the parent with two children, turn the household into a flatmate situation. It will be good training for the boys (ALL boys should have the same domestic skills as all girls, and vice versa). Learn to involve the kids to work as a team. I did this with difficult child 3 today. I wanted to teach him how to make damper (a sort of scone dough cooked over an open fire). So I began to make his lunch (pizza made with a slice of bread as base) and talked him through rubbing the butter into the flour. He didn't want to do it, but I pointed out that he wanted his lunch as soon as possible, I would help when I was finished making the pizzas and they were in the oven, but until then, he could save me time. We worked as a team. Another example - the older two don't like peeling potatoes, but they DO like what I cook with them. I promised to make potatoes dauphinois but I couldn't start until they peeled enough potatoes for it. There were no arguments. And I made sure to thank them all for their help. If you still need to know what difficult child is up to, then learn to play detective discreetly. Either yourself or someone you know (but who difficult child doesn't know well) can wander past the shop when difficult child is supposed to be there. Ring him at work - make sure you have a plausible reason. "Can you please bring home some extra kebabs when you finish?" If he's not where he's supposed to be, say nothing. Just make a note of it, and keep observing. If he's not working much but is instead going off with his friends, it will show. He will not have as much money as he should have if he WERE working all those shifts. He will be more tired. His boss might ring looking for him when he's not there - the problem about lying like this, you can sometimes get things muddled and go out when you ARE supposed to be working. Frankly, he should be telling you when he's working, purely as a matter of house courtesy. So should your husband. Just as you both should be telling your kids where you will be and when. He will be 18 soon. There are lot of of things he can legally do at 18. Is he prepared for that responsibility? How do you think he would manage if you stepped back entirely, did not wake him in the mornings; made him cook occasional meals; made HIM do a few turns in the laundry; made him do the shopping occasionally, made him budget to pay the utilities etc. What are his plans? Surely he is hoping to one day (maybe soon) leave home? How well prepared is he for this? Does HE know what he's likely to be in for? Watch and observe quietly. Step back. Then see how he copes, with you doing less for him. Mind you, it IS far to warn him that he is going to have to get himself up in the mornings. You DO need to play fair in this! Marg [/QUOTE]
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