Parents withholding vaccination shots

donna723

Well-Known Member
Mine both got chicken pox before they started school. My daughter was just about the last kid in her day care to come down with them. And they didn't notice that she had broken out with them until almost the end of the day. Of course by that time she had been playing outside rolling around in the dirt. And even though I bathed her several times a day, she got a staph infection in all of those eruptions from that first day. Even with medication, it took forever for it to clear up, even long after the chicken pox were gone. It all, she was out of daycare and I had to stay off of work for over two weeks. Believe me, if I could have had her vaccinated for it back then, I would have!
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
LucyJ, you made a very interesting and probably right guess. I don't know for sure, but doctors ARE afraid of getting sued! Yes, there is interference.

ON the other hand, we never would have gotten rid of polio if we hadn't vaccinated. But that's a crippling disease.

Our kids are mandated certain shots to go to public school.

The gut thing and autism was not something I was aware of and I've really done my homework on autism, but my son was not late onset. I have only read that there are many possible causes of autism, including heredity.

There is one possible down side to chicken pox. If you have them you can get shingles when you are older and it is painful and you are n Occupational Therapist (OT) a kid anymore! But you can't worry about everything.

Anyone know why hepatitis B is mandated? I knkow about hepatitus B because GoneBoy and many others from his orphanage came to the U.S. as Hep. B carriers, probably having gotten it from their birthmothers, however lots of ways to spread it in an orphanage. It really scared me when I found out he was a carrier. I thought he was going to die. Then I learned more about it and stopped worrying. I did vaccinate my two other kids because he was living with them, but it is REALLY difficult to catch it from somebody else in just casual contact...a bit like AIDS is how it is transmitted.
 

witzend

Well-Known Member
Children should be vaccinated unless it there is some medical reason that they can not. Only fools don't vaccinate their children because of junk science. As a very bright young woman with Autism said recently,

"People who don't vaccinate their children would rather have dead children than have a child like me."

I had measles as a child and was lucky enough to live through it, though not all children did. I had Aunts and family friends who lost babies to Rubella. I knew children (and adults) who'd had polio. I remember women having babies who just disappeared into an institution at some point because it reallly is that difficult to care for a disabled child and they're certainly not handing out free healthcare to children at this point in time.

Anti-vaxxers who don't vaccinate because of a fraudulent report by one doctor who earned millions for himself in lectures and worked hand in hand with drug companies to spread out vaccinations over a longer period of time are no better than those morons who tell us that the 911 attacks were really a government plot to get us to go to war in the Middle East or that President Obama is a secret Muslim smuggled into Hawaii to infiltrate our government and help the Nation of Islam - if he was, he's doing a pi$$ poor job of it with all the drone strikes he's making.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Witz, we obviously think alike by your post. I just cracked up at your throwing out those conspiracy theories that some people actually believe!!!!

I feel if you can prevent a disease that is dangerous, for pity sakes, DO IT. If you wish to spread out the vaccinations, then do it that way. I have NO problem with that. Heck, I did that with my DOGS! I didn't want my one more sickly pup getting all the shots at one time so he got one at a time and it made a huge difference in how he reacted to them. I can't see why anybody would risk measles and polio and whooping cough. I think it is up the parent about chicken pox and I know very little about mumps. I never got them. I know my sister almost died from the measles. German measles is another very mild illness, but once you are thinking of getting pregnant, might be a good idea to see if you have immunity to GMs. They can cause mental retardation in children. Harmless unless you are pregnant. Then not so harmless.
 

svengandhi

Well-Known Member
My father told me about the kids in the hospital on either side of him who died from diphtheria when he was about 8 years old (he was born in 1925) and about his friend who died from scarlet fever and my mom's friend who died from complications from the mumps. I was born post=polio vaccine and my grandparents actually knew Jonas Salk. I was as fully vaccinated as a child of the 60's could be - smallpox and polio were about it. I actually had all of the MMR, as well as chicken pox, pertussis, scarlet fever (for which there still is no vaccine), German measles (4 times!) and I lived, but I was lucky.

Mumps can cause sterility in boys. Measles can kill; it killed Roald Dahl's daughter in the 1960's. A teenaged boy in my town died a few years ago from pertussis, apparently he hadn't been vaccinated. My oldest son contracted pertussis this year but it was a mild case because he's had his shots. I had him vaccinated on his 1st birthday, which was early, because there was an outbreak in NYC at the time and I was concerned.

When HPV first came out, I was nervous but my pediatrician, whom I trusted implicitly, told me after 2 years to give it to my daughter, so I did. A year later, he suggested I give it to the boys, so all 4 are fully vaccinated. My daughter's arm swelled after the first shot, but no other side effects for any of them. I feel like I am protecting my future grandchildren by protecting my sons' partners.

As for chicken pox, oldest boy got it when he was 2 (1993, pre-vaccination) and it was AWFUL. He had pox all over his body, including the tip of his penis and in his anus. His fever went close to 105 and he convulsed. I sometimes wonder if his issues didn't stem, at least in part, from that. I cried every day for three weeks, till he got over it, and then I got to cry again when daughter, who was 20 months at the time, got it. The 2 middle boys (now 18 and 20) got the vaccination. Then, my babyboy was exposed to chicken pox at 8 months and came down with it because he was too young to vaccinate. He was so sick and I was so angry. I called the mother who knowingly brought a sick child to my daughter's 8th birthday party and yelled her up one end of the phone and down the other - she said "It's only a childhood disease." I told her if my son died, hers would, too. I didn't mean it but I was livid. I never permitted my daughter to play with that kid again and actually told the school that I didn't want him in her class again, at least until babyboy was old enough to completely vaccinate.

Many of difficult child's issues trace back to the RSV he had at three months and if that shot had been around when my kids were babies, they'd have had it.

Oldest boy's girlfriend once said she wasn't sure about vaccinating. Before I could comment, my son said to her "What are you, kidding me? I would not have kids with anyone who won't vaccinate..." I just shut up.

Sorry this is long but I really feel strongly about this issue. Maybe it's because I once met Mr. Salk?
 

witzend

Well-Known Member
German measles is another very mild illness, but once you are thinking of getting pregnant, might be a good idea to see if you have immunity to GMs.

Rubella (German Measles) has an incubation period of two to three weeks, and the patient is usually contagious without symptoms for at least one week. Do you know how many pregnant women a person infected with Rubella might encounter in a week? Those women may not know they are pregnant or may be unable to take the vaccine themselves for other medical reasons.

Rubella can cause congenital rubella syndrome (CRS) in the newborn. The syndrome (CRS) follows intrauterine infection by the rubella virus and comprises cardiac, cerebral, ophthalmic and auditory defects. It may also cause prematurity, low birth weight, and neonatal thrombocytopenia, anemia and hepatitis. The risk of major defects or organogenesis is highest for infection in the first trimester. CRS is the main reason a vaccine for rubella was developed.

Many mothers who contract rubella within the first critical trimester either have a miscarriage or a still born baby. If the baby survives the infection, it can be born with severe heart disorders, blindness, deafness, or other life-threatening organ disorders. The skin manifestations are called "blueberry muffin lesions".

About 10,000 cases of this condition occur each year.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
When I was trying to get pregnant, the doctor had me take a Rubella test to make sure I was immune to it, but I was pretty sure I wasn't since I'd never had rubella. Sure enough, I wasn't. I did not hesitate to have the shot before getting pregnant. Back in the day when I was a baby, there was no shot for rubella. I just was a very healthy kid and never got anything except a mild case of chicken pox (like four pox). But, as an adult, if the doctor offered me the MMR shot as a baby, and I know what I know now, I would have wanted to have it. Of course, the point is the baby DOESN'T have a say. It's up to the parents. I feel vaccinations are worth the risks. I hate seeing little ones with whooping cough and measles. Chicken pox is usually very mild, but my sister, as I said earlier, almost died with it. I think I typed measles, but it wasn't the measles. She got that sick with chicken pox.
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
!!!!!

"Oldest boy's girlfriend once said she wasn't sure about vaccinating. Before I could comment, my son said to her "What are you, kidding me? I would not have kids with anyone who won't vaccinate..." I just shut up."
 

svengandhi

Well-Known Member
Rubella is interesting because you can get it multiple times. My mom told me that the first time I had it, at 18 months, all of the neighborhood teenagers who hadn't had it yet came by our apartment to play with me, in hopes that the girls, in particular, would get it before they had children. My mother became pregnant the second time I had it and she'd never had it, despite being exposed to me. The doctor offered her an abortion (in 1961, this was not an easy thing to get) but she refused. My sister had no health issues, but I have a good friend who was born with severe hearing problems because her mom had German measles during pregnancy.

I think that many of the parents who make the decision not to vaccinate do so because they have no first hand knowledge of the damage these diseases can cause. I think my children will choose to vaccinate because they can see the chicken pox scars on my two oldest children and they all remember how sick babyboy was when he had it. I that I for one would never forgive myself if my child died or was permanently injured as the result of an illness I could have avoided. H and I consider ourselves fortunate to have had such lifesaving tools available to us when raising our children.

I will say that after my daughter was born, my mom told me that she couldn't remember if I actually ever had the measles. I had a blood test and the titer was inconclusive, so I got the measles shot at age 32.

I personally believe that one's right to choose ends when it infringes on public safety. My philosophy on immunization is that it is done to protect my children and the other children in their cohort. The Amish are isolated. I disagree with their choice to not vaccinate, but they rarely interact with the public. I would never take an unvaccinated child there but I'd visit Amish tourist places since we are all vaccinated. I feel for the parents of children who are immune-suppressed and can't be vaccinated.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
My son never had chicken pox and, I hate to admit it, but I don't know if he got the vaccine. I was terrible at his vaccinations. The fact is, he just was so healthy I never took him to the doctor. I missed his 11 year old shots until he was something like 15! In my defense, I thought I'd get a note from the high school and I didn't. But anyway, at this point, I really don't know if he's been vaccinated for chicken pox. The rest, absolutely.

When I was a kid, there was no opting out. The health department came to my school and all the kids lined up and got their jabs. I still remember one little girl being carried between two teachers, legs going a mile a minute while she tried to run away.

The first lawyer I worked for wore a brace on one withered leg - Polio. He was born in 1947, so in the last 68 years. Can you imagine not taking the vaccine for that?
 

Confused

Well-Known Member
I know someone who started to vaccinate and the child had some reactions after so they refuse ( not sure about now). Yes, they can have side effects in some, and its a scary thought and chance, but I have always looked back at our history and thought- I have to vaccinate and take that chance. Its a personal choice but can depend on the childs health or families health who previously got ill from them? Its a personal decision I think?
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
When I was a kid, smallpox vaccination was still "standard". But I was a "sickly" kid, and the Dr. recommended that we skip that one (live vaccine, chance my immune system wouldn't handle it and I'd get smallpox). There are reasons for not having a specific vaccine OR for waiting until the kid is older and better able to handle.
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Back in 1967, pre-Chicken Pox vaccine, my seven-year-old cousin got chicken pox and died a week later. To this day, we don't know if it was a complication like encephalitis or Reye's syndrome. Parents weren't told about the dangers of aspirin for children back then.

Reye's (Ryes) syndrome is a rare but serious condition that causes swelling in the liver and brain. Reye's syndrome most often affects children and teenagers recovering from a viral infection, most commonly the flu or chickenpox.

Signs and symptoms such as confusion, seizures and loss of consciousness require emergency treatment. Early diagnosis and treatment of Reye's syndrome can save a child's life.

Aspirin has been linked with Reye's syndrome, so use caution when giving aspirin to children or teenagers. Though aspirin is approved for use in children older than age 2, children and teenagers recovering from chickenpox or flu-like symptoms should never take aspirin. Talk to your doctor if you have concerns.


Either way, a simple childhood disease killed my cousin. Unfortunately, the vaccine was not available for my girls and they both caught chicken pox when they were young. I was scared to death after what happened to my cousin. I would have been the first one in line to get the shot for my girls if it had been available at that time.

Not to mention shingles. I got them a year ago and was one of the lucky ones because I had a mild case. One of the teachers at my school had to retire early after she got a particularly severe case and she still has pain from them today.

I really don't understand parents that refuse to vaccinate. Yes, there are risks but it is a greater risk for a child to ride in a car. Do they refuse to let them do that, too?

~Kathy
 
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InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
We turned down the HPV vaccine. At the time it was available (things might have changed since then) it only covered one or two strains, and neither one is among the more common ones where we live. I didn't see any advantage. If the vaccine had covered 80% of the strains... different story.

The measles, rubella, chicken pox, whooping cough... those vaccines are close to 100% effective. Small pox vaccine was close to 100% effective too... unless you had a compromised immune system (in which case the vaccine could be deadly).

I can accept not vaccinating when there is a medical reason not to, or when it's a new vaccine with limited effectiveness (or unproven effectiveness). Otherwise, it isn't fair to the health of the public at large to not vaccinate.
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
Staff member
When do they give the MMR?

When I was a kid they gave me the so called (at the time) "three 'n one" vaccination shot. I think it might have been the MMR.
I took the shot calmly. Five minutes later, I was in the waiting room waiting for another family member to finish their appointment. when I felt dizzy and sick. I hit my head on the wall when I blacked out and fell to the floor. The doctor came and it took a fe minutes to revive me. His face was just as ashen as mine. Claimed I "breathed wrong" while the shot was given. WTH?????? Well, I have a seriously messed up immune system with lupus and what not and I always wondered about that shot.

Generally speaking, I'm OK, really fine, with childhood vaccinations, BUT, why the heck give three shots to a child at the same time? Doesn't this sound stupid? Why tax a child's system like this??? It sounds dangerous....anybody else see this???

As an adult, I haven't gotten the flu shot etc., but may reconsider when I am much older. I do wonder about it's effectiveness and am thrilled I did NOT get it this year. (Said to be particularly ineffective this year). Really wish they would NOT put aluminum and other dangerous ingredients in the shot. Again, haven't taken it yet, but something I have considered.

AND...I do NOT trust any doctor who says it is ok to take the flu and pneumonia shot at the same time. I just think it is stupid...pushing your luck big time. Common sense seems to be no where to be found.

I did ask difficult child to get the HPV shot. Why? 1. It covers the two strains that can cause cervical cancer. There are only two strains that tend to cause cancer and it covers those two...the most important ones to cover. 2. She is a difficult child and therefore less likely to insist on protection (prophylactic) that would help HELP prevent the transmission of the virus. If she wasn't a difficult child, I may of thought differently. It's a judgement call based on the circumstances, etc.
 
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InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I did ask difficult child to get the HPV shot. Why? 1. It covers the two strains that can cause cervical cancer. There are only two strains that tend to cause cancer and it covers those two
We were told that science has only been able to isolate two of the ones that cause cancer but there are more.
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I think I understand, Insane. My doctor told me they know for sure strains 16 and 18 cause cancer. Perhaps there are more. But, 16 and 18 actually MIGHT not cause any other problems but cancer and since they know for sure they do cause cancer....we went for it. It's a hard call. I think if my difficult child wasn't a difficult child, perhaps I wouldn't have asked her to take the shot thinking that she would have a decent chance of using protection and at least some chance of avoiding transmission. Again, just a judgment call. Tough decisions.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I think if my difficult child wasn't a difficult child, perhaps I wouldn't have asked her to take the shot
I understand. My daughter isn't my most challenging child, which affected my decision the other way. But yes, "type of kid" is one more factor in the decision. Unfortunately.
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
My parents vaccinated me. I was one of the kids who got the smallpox vaccination in the inner, upper thigh - if I look very carefully, I can still find the scar. (Mom worked as Director in a hospital lab when I was a kid.)

However - I managed to get the measles anyway, in 2nd grade. It was awful. I remember it vividly. I was extremely ill... I remember the hallucinations, the itching, the bleeding nose and burning eyes. I have had extremely mild cases of chicken pox 4 times for sure. When I was 24 the chicken pox vaccine became available and my doctor suggested I get it, so I did.

I had to get an MMR booster before trying to get pregnant with Rose, because I was no longer immune to rubella.

I have a friend who was born late in her mother's life - by the time I met her, her Mom was in a wheelchair due to polio... And her father had taken off because he couldn't handle an invalid wife and a baby.

Belle's biomom had her given the first 2 of 3 HPV shots when they FIRST came out. No one told us... Then she got upset when we didn't finish the series on time. Ugh. So poor Belle got them AGAIN, a few years later. We did not think they were necessary and not enough time had elapsed to be sure it was worth it. Now that it is recommended for both genders, and has proven generally safe... Pat has gotten it, too. We have lot numbers for ALL the vaccinations that Rose has received - and except for the 2-month shots, she's been a trooper. Those caused a slight fever and extreme fussiness for about 6 hours.

That said, there ARE cases in which vaccinations are NOT a good idea. Compromised immune systems, allergies to the ingredients... I have only gotten the flu shot twice, once when Rose was 3 weeks old and then in 2013. In 2009 I cared for 2 friends with the swine flu and... Nothing. Haven't had the flu since I was perhaps 19. The only reason I got it those 2 times was Rose. She got it this year; but Pat and I did not. If he'd been in traditional school, we might have; but his doing online school... Well.

We won't get vaccinated for unusual things, like hubby has. But then... He was in the USMC.
 
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