possible relapse

rebelson

Active Member
It's true. He relapsed.
He just called me from the sober living facility main office phone.
He sounded exhausted like he was really lacking in sleep. I detected a teensy bit of a 'been drinking' slur to certain words.
"Mom, I am calling to tell you that I drank for 2 days. I had 3 shots and it only felt good for about 30 minutes. I'm back to the house where I started(detox?)...I'll have to be there for 1 to 2 weeks. I gotta go, I'm about to go to a meeting. I love you."
My guess? As per my original thread post, he hooked up with a girl/woman and they've been 'partying' for the past 2 days.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
I am sorry you are suffering. But now you have an up side to look at. He's back where he belongs and back to working the program, going to meetings. I understand that relapse is a part of recovery. He could have just kept going, partying and drinking. He didn't. This is a good thing.
 

Sister's Keeper

Active Member
Ugggh sorry. That sucks, but today is a new day. He'll start over and maybe learn something from his mistake.

A lot of times the not knowing is worse than the actual truth.

One day at a time.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Rebelson - you now know the truth and that is better than not knowing and he's back at it so that is good.

If it's like where my son is, it's the PHP house. That means they are more strict. One step up from the IOP house. My son is at his PHP house now also. Detox is called detox and not the same.
 

rebelson

Active Member
Oh. Well if he's been drinking, wouldn't he be at the detox house?

What is the difference in the detox & php house?
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
I think they only make you go to detox if you are sick from it (whatever "it" is). My son was sick from overdosing.

Crazy how we talk about this like it's normal!! WTF!!
 

Sister's Keeper

Active Member
Detox is where they medically withdraw you from whatever substance you may be using.

In the case of alcohol and benzodiazepines (xanax, valium, etc) it is medically necessary because sudden withdrawal from these substances can cause seizures (alcohol and benzos) or heart arrhythmias (alcohol) .

Opiates will make you physically ill (nausea, vomiting, chills, diarrhea, abdominal and muscle cramps) but the withdrawal isn't life threatening. However, addicts, generally, can't tolerate the symptoms and will use to abate them, so they require medical support to decrease the symptoms so they won't use.

Other things like cocaine and meth are only psychologically addictive, but the addict will need extra psychological support to get through the withdrawal period.

The length of detox from alcohol and benzos depends on the addict and how heavily they are using. Rebel's son may only need a few days if he really did just relapse and drink for 2 days. He may not even require any medical intervention, but they want to monitor to be safe.

PHP is more of an inpatient type rehab. Unlike IOP (Intensive Outpatient Program) the addicts aren't out in the community. They stay at the facility and focus on recovery. That may be 2 weeks or a month. Depends.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
My son's house manager said they are doing a lot of things this weekend for the holiday including BBQ, bowling and a movie so I am going to enjoy my weekend with my husband and friends.

I haven't talked to him in a few days and that is not a bad thing. It gives me some much needed space.

Rebelson I hope that you are able to have some peace this weekend from your worries. He's safe now.
 

worried sick mother

Active Member
Rebelson, you and I sound a lot alike. I do the same thing with checking phone records multiple times/day, I try to stop because I know I'm only driving myself crazy but I still continue. I had never thought I was Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) though but maybe I am. I think we just have that gut instinct as mothers when something isn't right and feel we can prevent or fix it by checking. You and I both know we are only hurting ourselves.
You have received some great advice on here. I agree with all of it but I understand why you can't stop checking up on your son. I just try to praise myself that I'm not as bad as I used to be.
I'm sorry for your son relapsing , it's a wonderful thing that he jumped right back into treatment, very good sign. You should be very happy about this and relax. Your son is safe.
 

rebelson

Active Member
Hey guys, check out my new thread under Parent Emeritus. I posted a beautiful, calming song. That I'm blaring as I drive around. Ha.

I will read these new posts ^^^ later, in a little. I'm out running errands, by MYSELF. Much needed alone time:).
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I agree that it is easier to know than not know. Relapse is a part of recovery and it has been said here on the board that seven is the average number of relapses before lasting recovery.

It sounds like the program your son is in knows what they are doing. Try to relax and let the program work. It is a good sign that your son admitted the relapse and was willing to go back a step and keep working on recovery.

~Kathy
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Dear Rebelson,

I have been reading along but too busy to post. I am sorry about your latest worries with your son. It does not sound all bad and it sounds like others have given you good advice.

I agree with SWOT about invading his privacy. I believe it could backfire. The only way he will learn is with the freedom to make his own decisions without pressure. I over-controlled my son and still fall back onto it sometimes. It did not work at all and made me sick. It boomeranged.

My son would not do what I wanted--and when I pushed too hard he pulled back even farther. Some of you will remember the fiasco of going to the big city to make sure he got to the liver doctor. If I was not shameless, it would have been my perp walk. But the bottom line is it does not work. You will drive yourself nuts, and it does not help them.

My son is doing many of the things I wanted--because I am leaving it up to him.

As far as privacy goes, you want him to have boundaries and to feel he can make them. Those are attributes that will help him deal with addiction.

Take care.
 

Albatross

Well-Known Member
Rebelson, I am glad you are out and about. Even just running errands, doing something that isn't attached to them and their drama helps. I hope you make some more time to do things just for you today.

I am glad you know he is safe. I wish him the best in his recovery.

I do understand the obsessively checking where they are, what they said or meant, etc. I sure have been there. I can understand your Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) making it worse, but even without that contributing, I don't think willpower helps us stop trying to check and control, at least not in the long run. We have to find ways to shift our focus.

I hope you and the new counselor click. I have been going back to Al-Anon lately, and that is helping me a lot. It helps to have a place of peace and understanding. Even if just for an hour, it is an hour where my brain takes a break from its endless spin cycle.

I think there is some great advice on this thread. Darkwing, that was an honest and wonderful post. Painful to read because I saw a lot of myself in it. Thank you. Your insight is very much appreciated around here.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
First, I want to say this to Darkwing. This first post of yours is quite possibly the most brilliant and the most personally useful to me, that I have read on this site in the 14 months I have been here.
It is very dangerous territory, for a new to recovery addict to be in an altered state of mind. It leads to lowered inhibitions, and can never have any effect other than negative.
This is stellar, a perfectly clear concise statement helpful to anybody dealing with a destructive behavior.
It sounds like your mental and emotional state depend ENTIRELY on your son's going ons.
Well, the thing is, for many of us here, this becomes the case, myself included. In one way of thinking, awareness of this state of mind in us, becomes very powerful and hopeful--because everything in us is concentrated on this fulcrum, when we pivot (detach) with this we are able to find new direction, control and meaning in ourselves.
Does you freaking out somehow improve the situation for him?
Well, this is really it, is it not. Enmeshment. The assumption that if I suffer with him, for him, that I have control. And my having the illusion of control trumps everything. It has become about me. Only me. And my regaining control in myself. We may think it is about our child, but we are playing out a highly ritualistic scenario in our own heads--and using the other person as a prop.
Just as your son needs to get to the point where his mental and emotional well being doesn't rely on mind altering substances, you need to get to the point where YOUR mental and emotional well being doesn't rely on his.
Like this.
I suggest removing whatever ability you have to monitor his e-mails, texts, stuff like that. It's a bit invasive, and is causing you way more trouble than it is really worth. It is making you sick with worry over something you aren't even entirely sure happened yet.
So, it seems that Darkwing, very politely (but directly) is suggesting that I may have had an addiction to controlling my son--all the time experiencing such as in him, not me. Where I had no control at all.

So that as long as I perpetuated this, both of us would suffer--without out--and we did.

My son began to change when: One, I made no contact at all. Two, when I became indifferent to every single thing he did, EXCEPT to my boundaries. His boundaries became completely his to decide and to control, because I had gotten out of it entirely.

And guess what? He did. He began to see himself as the fulcrum of his own power, and I just a satellite.

The evidence of this is stunning. But the one thing that amazes and gratifies me most, is how much less he is lying.

You see, as long as I was the one taking responsibility, he must have seen both his personal power and personal responsibility (as well as his conscience) within me.

Now, I am going to let myself off the hook here, because I think that parents and their adolescents generally go through a cycle like this where the moral authority is seen by the teen as in the parent--and the task of the teen is to circumvent a and conceal.

But with us it went on until my son was 26. I felt myself justified because he was not doing it.

I see now it may have been in part because I kept holding onto power over and in his life.
Constantly terrified I was going to disappoint my aunt once again
Well Psychwing (that was a Freudian Slip. Truly. I mean Darkwing, this is exactly the thing that my son has said.

He lies, he has told me because he feels like a fuxk up and wants to avoid feeling perpetually so, or that I should feel it about him. He just cannot go there, to one more error or mistake. He does not want to face it or to have me see it or feel it.

So what was really going on inside him, was the very opposite of what I thought.

I ascribed intention to hurt or to damage me. I thought he felt disrespect, that I did not matter. And it was exactly the opposite thing.

He has told me recently that it hurts him to feel he did not love me. That who he did not love was himself. (Darkwing will remember that--because he was the one who told me first.)
It made my entire recovery about her, and not me.
I do not see this as wrong. You did it the way you could.

It is like a young adult version of the toddler who carries around a stuffed animal or a blankie to remember that there is a Mama.

When you could make your recovery about you, you did.
I am still working on being better for myself. I struggle with it, because I don't like myself very much.
I am waiting for my first social security check and I am struggling with the same thing, Darkwing.
It is so much easier to be happy together when both parties are capable of being happy apart.
Yes. Profound and true.
My mom died before I was capable of making an adult decision. I couldn't vote. I couldn't join the military. And the effect of that still shows to this day. I am a man child in a lot of ways. Behind every friend I have emotionally. I have had to learn EVERYTHING through trial and error.
You know, Darkwing, I cried this morning. I cannot remember if it was after or before I read this post.

I cried because I was the same way. I led the same life as you, because I never felt support. Just sabotage. I raised myself. And many many times I was betrayed. And now I am wondering if the sense of betrayal was always in me. Did I, one, carry the expectation of betrayal, or two, never really attach that much (so that I might have been the betrayer)?

And then our kids come along and we wake up and there is nothing held back--and then they suffer and fall down. And we are destroyed by it--and feel that all of the ugliness in our lives and our selves--is responsible. And we obsessively and compulsively, or hysterically (my case) or angrily, try to clean it up--clean ourselves up--and nothing works. Until we come here.

And we stop. And we let our kids grow up.
 

rebelson

Active Member
It sounds like your mental and emotional state depend ENTIRELY on your son's going ons. That isn't a good thing. For you, or for him. Look what it does to you. Does you freaking out somehow improve the situation for him? For you? Of course it doesn't.
Sadly, you are correct. If son is good, I am good. If son is using, binging or stagnating, I am not good. How ridiculous this is. It serves no purpose. It helps nothing. My husband is very upset with me, starting on Wednesday, when I first saw the 'how to beat a breathalyzer' search. The not knowing was torment for me. I literally shut down, almost like in zombie mode. I felt a HUGE release of stress yesterday afternoon after son called me and admitted to relapse and stated he was put back in to PHP for a week or 2. After that call, immediately, I was back to myself. It was like in the Hulk movie, when he busts out of the person and morphs in to the muscular green Hulk. Well, when the stress lifts off me, it is almost instantaneously as if I am busting out of the zombie outfit and back in to 'me'.

My husband is vey concerned about me and I think, a bit angry at me. For my unhealthy & O C D behaviors where son is concerned. He does not have O C D or any mental health issues. So, it is hard for him to understand. :(

I show him some posts on here. He says 'see? you HAVE to stop being so involved.'

I suggest removing whatever ability you have to monitor his e-mails, texts, stuff like that. It's a bit invasive, and is causing you way more trouble than it is really worth. It is making you sick with worry over something you aren't even entirely sure happened yet.
I wish there a way to do this without son knowing. The only solution to this would be for him to change his Google + password. For that to happen, I'd have to fess up to him on what I've been doing. Looking at his searches. He'd be very angry at me. :frown: So, that temptation remains with no real way to make it so I CAN NOT look. I will have to do this myself, I guess. And, control the urge. You are right. It IS invasive. :frown: I want him to have boundaries, but I have none.

I never felt support. Just sabotage. I raised myself. And many many times I was betrayed. And now I am wondering if the sense of betrayal was always in me.
Copa, me too. I had an awful childhood and both my (divorced) parents were alive. I was such a good little girl, I don't think my mom realized how lucky she was. With all what she drug me through (2 hints = 4 more divorces, moving/changing schools every year, no chance to make friends) from 5 to 17 (when I left & stayed with a friend), I could have very easily been a drug addict or in to some really bad things. I was very sensitive and naive, still am. I never said a curse word. I didn't even know what 'pot' was in HS..I'd hear others talking about it in the lunch room. I remember wondering 'I wonder what you do with that (pot) or how you do something with that (pot)? I remember thinking, 'do you eat it?' o_O How silly!

Son called me last night, we had around a 20 minute chat. He was in a good mood and telling me about his '2 day binge'.

So, a girl that he was hanging out with prior to this whole rehab stint (4 mos. ago), called him. He said they usually would go to the beach or some public place and hang. But, this time, she said 'why don't you come to my house?' So, he did. That was where this all started. He said she had a cabinet of liquor. I said: 'well, does she know your situation...in sober living?' He said: 'It's not her fault, it's mine.' I agreed fully. She probably does not know he's in sober living. He's a pretty private guy.

Some other things he divulged:
"for 2 days, I hung with this girl and we drank...I did go back to sober house each night; on 1st night, I passed the breathalyzer....on 2nd night (Thursday night) I got back to house in early evening & even attended an IOP group mtg, I don't think anybody could tell I had been drinking, but later around 9, I failed the breathalyzer, and I told them what I did.....1st day I had a few shots of Patrón and a glass or 2 of wine; on the 2nd day..and I think this is what f**ked me up where I failed the breathalyzer, I had some 'swigs' of vodka and a glass of wine.....this whole thing was not even worth it.....after I had the shots and each night, I was depressed that I did it....I knew I shouldn't have but I did it anyway....it so was not as 'cool' as I thought it would be....I lost my momentum and I didn't like that....I gotta keep pushing forward and I feel better...when I drink or get high I am not happy or having a good time, really.....I actually laugh a lot more when I've been sober....things are just better....life in general is better sober, I am getting better able to laugh at ppl in public who are rude or whose reactions used to cause me stress.....after I lost that landscaping job, I searched for another job for about a week, then I could feel myself stagnating...and that is when I get in to trouble....I have to keep myself busy....just always moving forward in some way..."

I asked him how drunk he got, did he black out or get sick or anything like that. He emphatically said 'no'. 'I was just drinking & having fun with this girl.' I asked him if it would've been just as fun if he had not had the alcohol, trying to get a hint of whether he has some social anxiety going on with girls. His answer was 'no, I think it would've been more fun without the alcohol.' Not sure how true that statement was as many of his searches revolve around anxiety, social anxiety. But, my son is an enigma, always has been.

Copa, I agree with DWP. Addicts in general, have a low self-esteem. I believe they hate that they are addicts, and hate what they do to us, most of them, anyways. For these whom fit that category, lying is not an egregious act towards us per se'. It's done because they have to hide these things that they are ashamed of. They don't want to lose what love we have left for them. So, they lie. It's quite the conundrum for them, I would think. But, the lies just cause the self-esteem to plummet even more with each lie. It's a vicious cycle.
 
Last edited:

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I don't know if they are ashamed or just don't want us to bug them. I don't think my daughter was ashamed, just trying to cover her tracks. And you know what? If my daughter told me ANY THING while she used, it was fudged or softened or a lie. And other people are really not going to hold back their drinking or drug use for somebody else. Our addicted and troubled adult kids need to avoid triggers because triggers are everywhere. It's up to them to be careful. Non addicts usually don't stop drinking because someone else has a drug problem.

I think our adult kids on in survival mode when they are in danger. I'm not so sure they think about us much except for what they want us to provide. Im not sire their first concetn is us. More like theor forst concern is not getting caught.They get real as they get healthy, if indeed they do. I hope they all do.

That's been my experience anyway. I don't believe anyone on drugs is truthful. JmO
 
Last edited:

Sister's Keeper

Active Member
Rebelson,

I was thinking about this thread and the thing I was thinking about is for people like myself and Darkwing it is really easy to say, "Don't check on him, don't help him," but we are not dealing with our children (mine are still very young, the big challenges I face are arguing with siblings and not sharing)

I think things like limit setting and detachment become very different things when we are dealing with our children. As parents we are programmed to feel responsible for our children. It is very hard to let go of mind set that we need to protect them and take care of them.

I approach addiction from the angle that I am not dealing with my children, but other family members and I think it is an entirely different dynamic. I think it is much easier to cut off a sibling or a parent (especially if they have done you wrong) than it is a child.

I am not sure that I could be as steadfast with my child and I think that if I was dealing with addiction in one of my children it would be cause for much more anxiety than I have with my sister.

I think as parents, and particularly mothers, there is always that instinct to nurture and protect, even when our kids are adults and even when they act like fools. I think that, alone, makes it so much harder.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I literally shut down, almost like in zombie mode. I felt a HUGE release of stress yesterday afternoon after son called me
I think this is an important insight. Do you think it might help you and your son if you think of your own behavior in terms of addiction and recovery, in the same way as your son is being taught in the recovery programs?

Perhaps in an Alanon group? As I was reading this part of your post I thought of the 12 steps. If you shifted focus to yourself, I believe you would begin to feel a great deal more peace, and eventually healing.

Yes, rebelson. I was this little girl, too:
I was such a good little girl
I was very sensitive and naive, still am.
I believe that there may be a link for you between what happened then, and is happening now. You are the link. The key is to changing is that you are no longer that little girl anymore. You have so much more capacity, and responsibility, as well.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
SK, post is filled with truth. It is much easier to detach from anyone except the child we tried to protect. I think about how crazy I was before FB. I literally ravaged her room over and over again looking for clues of...? Not sure what. Signs of danger. I ran and drove the streets at nightly when she was late. I called her friends, when I had no idea where she was. It didn't help. She was a step ahead of me. Her friends were mum

But the one day came when she had been trusted to babysit the dogs and stay two nights home alone...and we trusted her to do so because she was old enough (19), we loved her and trusted her and wanted to believe that she had quit..............
and when we came home a day early and surprised her...and when both of us plus our two little kids under ten saw a house full of frightening l looking guys and girls and a big bowl of pills...I snapped.

That was MY rock bottom. My trust in her totally eroded and I felt my smaller kids hugging me and crying in fear. It was them I needed to protect from these dangerous looking people...and from her, their friend and fellow addict. I had had it. This drug game I'd tried to control had been playing out since she'd been twelve. And she'd lied and lied and worse.

There comes a point, if it goes on long enough, or if they suddenly cross a line, that even the most loving mother snaps..or she decides to stay all in and she goes down with her adult child. There is a living death until you are certain which path to take. I think we would have hung in longer if we had not had young kids to also think about. But we did.

I am glad we reached our rock bottom so that our daughter could reach hers and change. Our parental rock bottoms are all differing, but even the most loving parent can decide to stop, both for them and for us. But that time is different for everyone. And some parents still care for addicted kids when the "kids"are 60. I've read it right here.

It is all about us and what we think is best AND are able to do
 
Last edited:
Top