psychiatrist won't...

[TeDo]

put ANYTHING in writing confirming that the behavior involved in the "legal situation" was caused by the Prozac. psychiatrist's nurse called this afternoon to tell me that psychiatrist has reviewed ALL the information in difficult child 1's file and since I was in favor of putting difficult child 1 on Prozac, she just can't write that it was due to the Prozac. HUH?

We didn't have the behavior BEFORE the Prozac and haven't had the behavior SINCE we stopped it so.....does 2 + 2 NOT = 4 anymore??? This just blows me away. What does my being in favor of an antidepressant to help difficult child 1 get out of his DEEP depression have to do with the reaction he had to it? This makes NO sense to me.

What do you think? Is MY thinking messed up?!?

 

[ThreeShadows]

Psychdoc is scared bleepless that you will hold him accountable and sue him.

 

[totiredtofight]

I dont see how it matters if you were in favor of it .. IT WAS caused by the prozac !!! no matter who was in favor

 

[flutterby]

What 3S said.

 

[buddy]

I think she is covering her butt because if she says that it was all due to the Prozac she prescribed then you can come back and sue her for that. I think what will be more important is the records that show exactly what you said and if she can / or if any independent doctor, like your pediatrician...can say he had no issues before this medication, then had the issues and then has not had them since...(per medical record review and lack of any other legal issues) as well as showing research, articles, and the medication insert that shows that these kinds of behaviors and mood/thinking changes can happen to anyone on this medication. I am SURE her lawyer would tell her to never admit that a medication she rx'd would have caused that problem. Very sad indeed.

 

[TeDo]

Guess I need to set something straight. One psychiatrist prescribed the Prozac....then literally just up and quit.....just stopped showing up to work...no notice and no contact since. THE one we have now is the new one. She didn't prescribe it, the other psychiatrist did. But if she really did look THROUGH his records, there is no way she can NOT see that there was no violence before the Prozac and she KNOWS there hasn't been any since.

 

[JJJ]

Try googling "Prozac murders" and "Peter Breggin M.D". He was the expert witness that testified in the case in Canada when the judge concluded that the defense proved that the Prozac caused the violent outburst. You may be able to find enough documentation to present to the DA to get them to drop the charges.

Or, you may find enough data to get a different doctor (his pediatrician?) to write a letter that Prozac is known to cause these types of behaviors.

Third idea, ask psychiatrist to write a letter documenting just the data:

1. October 2011: difficult child seen for severe clinical depression; no history of severe physical aggression
2. October 1, 2011: difficult child rx Prozac to treat depression
3. Oct 15, Oct 23 and Nov 8: outbursts of physical aggression
4. Nov 9, 2011: Prozac discontinued
5. There have been no further outbursts of physical aggression

Maybe explain to the psychiatrist that she may end of being required to attend court as a witness (so she can say exactly this) if you cannot get the charges dropped.

 

[buddy]

Guess I need to set something straight. One psychiatrist prescribed the Prozac....then literally just up and quit.....just stopped showing up to work...no notice and no contact since. THE one we have now is the new one. She didn't prescribe it, the other psychiatrist did. But if she really did look THROUGH his records, there is no way she can NOT see that there was no violence before the Prozac and she KNOWS there hasn't been any since.

Even so, I still think she is not going to do one single centimeter of anything that could suggest she was complicit in letting that happen. I think just dealing with the facts is the way to go anyway.... ultimately that is what will get this taken care of. She would probably also not say it for sure had NOTHING to do with this, right? She likely wont take a stand unless forced to do so in court...at which point the truth would be that she doesn't know... it could be the cause or not but the facts are for THIS patient, he had no hx of these issues before or after the medication.

 

[keista]

Can you just go see some random psychiatrist and ask if this could happen and if they would testify in court? Doesn't have to be your psychiatrist, just a reputable one. Oh, and make it clear this is for a bogus case for your son NOT malpractice.

falling short of that, research like JJJ said and enter the research into evidence.

Can you get teachers or friends to document the behaviors before, during and after Prozac? Not in any way making the connection to the medication, but just documented behaviors on specific days.

 

[DDD]

Not sure this would work but it might be worth a try. You could write a note addressed to psychiatrist. that "could" include this information.

Dear Dr. X
On yyy date I contacted your office to request verification that difficult children poor choices were the result of his prescribed medication, Prozac. This week (Thursday yyy) I received a call stating that you were not comfortable or prepared to make that statement. Although I was disappointed I do realize that there could be liability issues involved that would prevent that attestment. I assure you that my intentions do not include future litigation. Furthermore the initial prescribing psychiatrist
apparently is no longer in practice.

In a cursory review of difficult children medical records I believe that the facts indicate the following:
1. difficult child had no episodes of physical aggression prior to the Rx provided by Dr. Z.
2. I was in agreement with trialing Prozac in hopes it would diminish concerns about ____.
3. Unfortunately the Prozac was not a good fit for difficult child and he became affressive for the first time.
4. With your permission the Prozac was deleted (or titrated down ??) for difficult child.
5. difficult child has once again returned to functioning without signs of aggression.

I have no idea if that would "fly" but if the psychiatrist agrees to sign such a "statement of fact based on medical records" the tone would be simply a statement of fact and not a condemnation of Prozac or the acceptance of responsibility for side effects. Possibility? Hugs DDD

 

[InsaneCdn]

Second independent opinion - someone who can review the whole file, and then come to a conclusion on the matter.

It's really messy when you can't go back to the original psychiatrist.

Or, see if the psychiatrist can word it totally differently... not actually blame the prozac, per se, but... document the sequence of events... nothing in the file indicates a history of violence, under the care of dr. xxx, prescribed medication, file was transferred to me, violent behavior was manifest, medications were removed, violence has gone away...

(rather than... prozac caused violence... might be afraid that the drug mfg would start lawsuit for slander against their medication...?)

 

[TeDo]

Interesting ideas. Only have until bright & early Thursday morning to get all my ducks in a row. I plan to keep our psychiatrist appointment for Monday. HOPEFULLY, she will listen if I incorporate your ideas into the conversation. I LOVE playing with words. If I can get her to simply state behaviors before and after Prozac, maybe she'd be willing to do that much. I just need help getting someone to help me get the "intentionally" out of the equation. I just wish I could PROVE that I was not scared of difficult child 1 but that HE was TERRIFIED.

 

[crazymama30]

Is there a therapist involved with your difficult child? The court may take the therapists opinion into consideration also. See if you can get a letter from somone else, primary doctor, therapist, someone involved with difficult child.

You could also make an appointment with psychiatrist and take a prewritten letter stating that before that medication difficult child had no history of violence, therefore it could have bee the medication. Talking in person can sometimes lead to a better outcome.

 

[somerset]

I agree with what everyone else has posted. If the psychiatrist won't cooperate, the most airtight way to prove your point would be hiring an outside psychiatrist who does "expert witness" work to review the records and either provide a written opinion or testify in court. I don't know how formal the proceedings are in your situation. The work expert witnesses do can range from a letter stating Prozac can cause these type of behaviors in general, to a review of your specific case and a written formal opinions, to a full evaluation and testifying in court. These doctors can be very expensive, but usually the court appearance is the biggest expense, so if you don't need that it would be cheaper.

 

[keista]

Interesting ideas. Only have until bright & early Thursday morning to get all my ducks in a row. I plan to keep our psychiatrist appointment for Monday. HOPEFULLY, she will listen if I incorporate your ideas into the conversation. I LOVE playing with words. If I can get her to simply state behaviors before and after Prozac, maybe she'd be willing to do that much. I just need help getting someone to help me get the "intentionally" out of the equation. I just wish I could PROVE that I was not scared of difficult child 1 but that HE was TERRIFIED.

Proving a negative is extremely difficult, but your "diary"/log/journaling on here may be sufficient. Go back and look at the posts you made that night. It was all about worrying about him. NOTHING posted out of fear of him.

 

[flutterby]

You should be able to get a continuance if you need one.