Question about difficult child hours at new job

Calamity Jane

Well-Known Member
I think most employers make what is called "reasonable accommodations" for their employees who require them. GM, I don't think your daughter's employer is aware of what may or may not require any accommodation on their part, but I'm sure if the need arises, one could put forward specific requests, and whatever supporting documents (doctor's note, etc.) that would prove the request is legitimate. I don't think the company HAS TO comply if the request is too disruptive, but usually, if it's not, they often make an attempt. Particularly after someone's been trained and working well otherwise. Kudos to your daughter for coping with the double shifts - it is extremely difficult to manage stress for fragile people, and it's a tough and demanding world out there.

My brother is schizoaffective, but many years ago, had some success with medication and was able to work in a very stressful job (court reporter). He had a lot of stress at home from his wife which added to his job stress, and he was able to work fewer hours for a while until he was able to regulate. Stress exacerbates mental illness in many ways, and although this was a while back, and the job landscape has changed, I think when employers are given a heads-up for a LEGITIMATE issue within reason, they often will be understanding. I hope she can sail through this without a hitch, though!
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
You can not get special accomodations unless you can prove in writing by a doctor that are disabled and you must have either an obvious disability (like be in a wheelchair) or be getting SSDI for a mental disability. Been there/done that. I tried to ask for accomodations before I got disability and basically just got fired, with the excuse being something else. It is legal to fire somebody with a disability if the person is not documented as disabled and can't do the job. You do not have to accomodate somebody who can not do the job, even if they are bonafide disabled. It's tricky; lots of loopholes. You can't just walk in and say, "I have bipolar." You have to have proof the fact that you nokt only have bipolar, but are disabled by it and that's where the SSDI comes in. Many people with bipolar are NOT disabled thus they do not get accomodations. Again, very dodgy, but this is how it is. You need that Disability to get the help you need. It is seriously screwy, but that's how it goes. That's why we made sure Sonic had his Disability Status in place before graduation.


Remember that few jobs these days have union representation and most states are "at will" meaning they can fire you for any reason or NO reason without an explanation. This is different from the rest of the world, but it's the world our kids live in. The employer has 100% of the power and we have none. I think it's unwise for her to tell him she is mentally ill...then he will be looking for something and who knows? It could even get on her record and preclude her from getting another job. If she doesn't have Disablity it won't help her to tell anyone she is mentally ill, unless it is obvious, like the scizhophrenic brother of one of our posters who, by the way, had a very good job and probably s good education. Your daughter is at a disadvantage and will keep getting bargain basement jobs, like mine did, until she goes back to school.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
It's a catch-22. If she speaks up, they can let her go. If she does not speak up and can't quite handle it, they can let her go. And as MWM said... you are in the US, where there are very limited protections for workers. (in Canada, we are half-way to where SuZir is... )
I seriously wish we were ALL where Suzir's country is at. I doubt you can even imagine such disregard for people by our government, Suzir. The U.S. is a hard place to live in if you have anything wrong with you at all. Canada is better. I would honestly live in Canada if I could.
 

SuZir

Well-Known Member
MWM: I'm aware US tends to have very low job security and especially the people in lower level positions are often treated badly by employers. However, if GM's daughter is a good worker, that gives her some leverage. While she can not demand accommodations, she can ask them. If employer feels those accommodations can not be worked out, it may well be better to start looking a new job and leave this one in good terms rather than try to survive, flip, cause herself problems and maybe end up to psychiatric hospital or even jail.

If employer is not totally stupid, they will not fire good worker for asking and if they are smart, they try to accommodate if it doesn't cause them too much costs.

Replacing people is costly. I made a bad hiring decision little over the year ago. While person I hired would had been a good fit, she only stayed a year, before she moved on. That hiring mistake cost about 30 000 $ for my department in hiring and training costs all together. Okay, it was professional position (but far from the more costly end of professional level hiring spectrum) and hiring for minimum wage positions is of course much cheaper. But it is far from free. No one with half a brain wants to get rid of good worker and have to start over, if they can avoid that.

Of course things are different, if it is about so and so worker you are not sure you want to keep in first place.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Suz, I can see your point of view, but you are assuming that U.S. employers are rational. If you spent a month here exploring how companies deal with their employees, I'm sure it would shock you. There is NO job security and this is new. There used to be, when unions were more powerful. I hate to blame the tea party on this, and I won't completely blame them, but since the libertarians have literally taken over our government many things have changed and, in my opinion, they are not for the better for working people. In our state, our govenor pretty much abolished unions.

You'd think we would keep good workers who have knowledge so that we don't have to train new people. In reality, often long timers are fired, let alone new workers (with potential or not) and fire them for insane reasons. A woman I work with was just fired after ten years at Goodwill, which is a charitable organization, because she spoke her mind to the wrong person. She had no recourse and we have been shorthanded ever since and it has not been easy to find the right replacement and the ones who are still there are busting tail to make up for having one less worker. Does this sound crazy? I think so. But when you have unlimited power, you don't always make sense or do what is easiest for yourself, I guess.

A young worker, who has not been at a job long, then asks for a different schedule is likely to be fired in place of that other kid who is willing to work for minimum wage AND the crazy schedule. And trust me I agree it's a crazy schedule! But kids are willing to do it because they want to work. I do not feel it is fair, but I am on the very liberal end of U.S. thinking. Some have called me a socialist. That is a REALLY BAD insult in the U.S...lol. And I've been called that only because I believe everyone should have healthcare, even if we pay higher taxes, and that the standards for getting financial help for our poor are way to stringent. I would probably like your country a lot better than mine, if indeed they care about all of their citizens.

Our kids, easy child and difficult child young people, have to adapt to the crazy way our companies have total control over the workers. I have heard that, say, in France and the UK you sign a contract with your future employer. I LOVE THAT. It will not happen here in my grandchildren's lifetime. Too many really old fashion thinkers who consider that unfair to business and don't care if it is unfair to workers.

Anyhow, you gave good advice. I just don't know if it would work here. I'm assuming that a company can't stamp all over somebody in your country, like they can here. Life can be cruel, cold, and very impersonal in our working environment. And anyone can be fired at any time for any reason. Long ago I had one really strange boss who called a meeting and told us, in a very haughty way, "I can fire you because I don't like the way you said 'hello' to me. I can fire you because I don't like the color of your hair." She was right too. No logical reason is necessary, although many companies do keep records, slanted to their point of view, of course.
 

MyFriendKita

Active Member
You can not get special accomodations unless you can prove in writing by a doctor that are disabled and you must have either an obvious disability (like be in a wheelchair) or be getting SSDI for a mental disability.

This is absolutely NOT true. What Calamity Jane said is correct. And, although a company can fire someone for almost any reason, they cannot fire someone for any reason that is discriminatory (having to do with race, religion, etc.). They also cannot fire someone who is disabled for any reason related to that disability. That's not to say they can't fire a disabled person, but the reason can't be because of the disability, as long as the person can perform the essential functions of the job with reasonable accommodations.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Yikes. Calm down. I know they can't fire anyone for race or religion or race. Legally this is true.

But they sure as heck don't have to accept you are disabled just because you say so. It has to be documented by a professional that you have a disability. I had to go through Job Rehabilitation and get assessed by them to officially be labled disabled. I know for a fact as I went through it. I also tried appealing to many boss's sympathy explaining I needed a chance, I had learning disabilities, etc. Got me nothing but a pink slip. They wanted somebody who could do the job on their terms.

Anyone can say "I have a disability. I have bipolar." So what? You not only have to have proof of bipolar disorder by the right professionals, but you have to have it proven that this affects your ability to work, but that you CAN work if this or that accomodation is made. And a lot of companies don't want to hire disabled people. They can not put down on your application that you were not hired because you are disabled, but they can say you were not qualified or somebody else was more qualified and this is totally legal, even if they really did not want to hire you because you were disabled.

Also, any company can fire anyone for any reason other than the ones stated above. Now, they probably would not say, "You are fired because you are mentally slow and can't handle the work." But they will have a neat file about your errors and fire you. I've had this experience more times than I can count. I *have* a disability. Many, in fact. And until I knew about documentation and th e bureaucracy telling the boss I had a disability only made them think I was stupid.

You are right that if you are disabled and can do the work (I'm talking about documented) they can not fire you for that reason and why would they want to? However, they can pretty much fire you for any reason they want, including the taboos and say it was for another reason and show paperwork, true or not true, that indicates it was not because of race, although it actually could be. And you, as the employee, would have to sue them to prove they have done it illegally. I have tried that too. Guess who won? A little guy without the money for a hotshot lawyer will not win, even if he is in the right. This is just how life is. The people who were here before you know about my discrimination suit against my last employer because an employee constantly brought up my disability and tried to get me fired because of it. It worked. I filed. I got nowhere. YOU try it sometime and good luck and, trust me, I hope you or your chld or whoever the disabled person is wins.

Sorry, but I've been there/done that so many times that I do know how it works. You do need to actually be labled as disabled by professionals for any company to have to consider you disabled. You can not just declare yourself disabled and get accomodated, such as not working a heavy schedule or not having to do as much stressful work as another person. Nope. Sorry. That is wrong. Not going to argue it, but I lived it. Lived it for thirty plus years. Honestly, the very best way is to get tested, get labeled as Disabled, accept the services and get a job that way. It has worked really well for me. I LOVE THIS NEW JOB!

But doing it just by saying, "by the way, I have schizophrenia" will probably get you fired, although the company will never ever say it is because you ahve schizophrenia. Best to do it the right way, through the system, if you are truly a disabled person. There are laws and idealism and then there is real life...and real life is a lot sadder and harder.
 
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MyFriendKita

Active Member
I went back and looked, and I didn't see where anyone claimed a disability didn't have to be documented, although in my experience, the employee asks for the accommodations and then the company decides what documentation it needs. And I'm speaking as an employer who deals with these situations frequently, so I don't think that's any less "real life" than your experience. As SuZir pointed out, good employees are hard to find and expensive to replace.
 

GuideMe

Active Member
So my daughter, came home last night and she talked to me this morning with what I already knew. Long story short, she talked to her manager, and the manager was absolutely fine with not scheduling doubles more than once a week. So that was the agreement, she might have to work doubles once a week sometimes, but no more than than once in a given week, and she has to finish out her schedule that is already in place this week. So, that is completely doable and my daughter was happy with that, as was I. And she didn't have to use any disability reasons, she simply said it was too much. I am greatly appreciative of this manager, I don't think she realized difficult child was being scheduled to work double shifts like that. Again, the manager was awesome and totally understanding , I could tell the way difficult child was explaining it to me. So all is good and thank you to everyone.
 

SuZir

Well-Known Member
Of course it may be different in USA but around here it is in fact often easier to get flexibility in hours and schedules in low paying jobs than career type of jobs. Many who work for low paying jobs, and who often are their best workers, require quite a lot of flexibility. They are typically students, stay-at-home-parents, who work just a little to help family finances or people, who work few hours in low paying jobs on top of their regular job to pay something extra. Your average University student doesn't miss her mandatory chem labs or midterms or even too many regular classes for janitor, fast food or retail job. Nor will stay-at-home parent agree to take hours that are not fitting with their spouses work schedule or someone, whose main (and more paying) job is something else is going to cut hours from that to take an extra shift in their second job that they keep to be able to have a three week luxury vacation at Maldives next November.

And those companies still really need these workers and because of that, are very used to and willing to accommodate their schedule needs. Few more for different reasons don't make much the difference for the companies and managers.
 

GuideMe

Active Member
Aww, Thank you so much CJ. I am glad she didn't have to go into any detail either. We are very thankful that she has such a very understanding manager, we know that the situation could have gone the complete opposite way, again very thankful to this manager!
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Oopsies, sorry I made an error in my explanation.

It is not just documentation you need, like a letter from a doctor. You need documentation from the State of Whatever t hat you are disabled. Then you can get help that leads to work. My son got his job that way and worked his way up. I got into Goodwill and have never done this well. I think it is because they let me learn in layers and did not mind my face blindness and believed in me. Both of us have documented disabilities by the state and get SSDI as well as working the max that we are allowed.

I do not want to argue so I did not read the other posts, feeling they may challenge what I know. So I hope this was an explanation and not something that riled anyone up. I do recommend getting disability if you are truly disabled because that is the only way you are going to get the help you need in the workplace. But one warning: behaving badly at any job, regardless of your diagnosois or disability, is going to get you fired. My son, who is on the autism spectrum, started out in a sheltered workshop and many people there had bonafide mental illnesses, including schizophrenia, and the workshop was specifically for disabled adults. However if you got into even one physical fihgt you were kicked out of the program.

So....it is what is is. I'm glad I survived it and I'm happy that things are so much better for my son. But you do have to make an effort to get labeled disabled in order to gain that status.

I wish everyone a GREAT night :))))! ;)
 
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