Question about smoking regulations where you live

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Mattsmom277, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    I'm a smoker. I wish I wasn't. We all know how awful smoking is for us, etc. I guess that isn't what this thread is about though. I'm wondering about regulations where you all live.

    Particularly, our new hospital is opening in January. The entire property will be smoke free, requiring a very long walk to either a highway on one side or a busy road to the university (with only a small gravel side to the road) on the other side. The part that strikes me really is that they will be ticketing if you smoke inside your vehicle in the parking lot, no matter how far from the hospital proper, even with windows rolled up etc. I don't have a car so it doesn't affect me anyhow, I'm just wondering what people think about regulating smoking within personal property such as vehicles. We have a great law now that you cannot smoke with minors in the car. I think that is great. But I guess I wonder how people feel about having regulations imposed on them for what they can or cannot do within their vehicle depending where your vehicle is located.
     
  2. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Our hospitals have the same policy. The logic is that it may be your car but it is their land and you are free to drive your car off their land to smoke. Our hospital also offers free quit-smoking programs and support groups, Maybe yours does too???
     
  3. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    I have a friend who works at a local hospital and the same applies. I can't really argue... Problem is, the workers there may come in contact with someone who has a reaction to the lingering smell. Of course, in my entire STATE you cannot smoke inside a building (except for private residences). So... Annoying though that may be, it is what it is.
     
  4. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    We have the same policy here where all public buildings are smoke free, as are work vehicles etc. I agree that all of those laws are good ones, even as a smoker.

    Our hospital is going to offer cessation treatment for those staff and patients that wish to have help to quit smoking, and that is a good move in my opinion.

    I'm concerned that patients that are weakened physically will be heading to busy highway sidelines to puff away, which in itself can be very dangerous for them. And lets face it, many people unexpectadly admitted to hospital are not going to or unable to just quit because they were admitted. We have currently 2 hospital sites as general hospitals, 1 hospital but located in 2 buildings a couple of blocks away. The new hospital is merging them into one new amazing facility. We also have one of the provinces largest psychiatric hospitals. It too is closing and the psychiatric beds are going into a wing of the new hospital. These patients are seriously mentally ill and many are smokers. Once they get assigned permission to go onto the grounds, they tend to conglomerating at the current facility in the smoking section and often stay there for their entire allotted time to be off ward. Currently that facility is very far up the highway on the way out of the city and a good mile or more hike in from the highway. Even still, we commonly have alerts from police of patients wandering off grounds and disappearing and to be on the look out and report sightings. This includes the forensic ward that houses those mentally ill patients facing criminal charges. Even those patients can earn the right to free time, and these patients too will be forced to walk off property to the highway which a the new hospital is smack in the center of our city. Dangerous in many ways. Strangely we live in northern Ontario Canada. Yes it's a city so to speak but only 54K population and surrounded by woods. This hospital site has ample woodsy area surrounding it that could easily at least provide a safe smoking section for patients if not for staff or visitors. I have so many concerns of this, perhaps more so because I know my mothers history of those smoke outtings when admitted to the psychiatric hospital here. And I know she'd never quit in spite of cessation treatment offers from the hospital. I also know often she was granted off ward permissions even when mentally unstable.

    I guess this whole policy strikes me odd more than the vehicles thing. Considering the comments here and the comments in our local newspaper, I'm starting to see the point of no smoking in the vehicles policy. I'm coming around to understanding there. Maybe I'll come around as well to understanding about no area for this demographic of patients. Alot of residents here are very concerned about the patients in the psychiatric floors for the reasons I am concerned too. I don't know, its a no win situation I guess.
     
  5. Mamaof5

    Mamaof5 Guest

    In Ontario we have similar laws and policies. It's not a law for the no smoking on hospital grounds but a hospital policy. However, can't ticket something that isn't in the law books so most smoke in their vehicles. On that note - one law Ontario does have (and as a smoker I agree with) is you cannot smoke in a vehicle with a minor under the age of 16 years old. It's a 150 dollar fine the first go around and goes up in increments of 50 or 75 dollars per subsequent citation for it.

    Also, not smoking in public buildings but still allowed to smoke in private residential buildings (ie: home). I agree with them as a smoker, I try to be as respectful as possible for the non-smokers around me. I've been known to butt out when asked politely at a bus stop or move away from a non smoker and make sure I'm not up wind from them where my smoke is being blown by wind in their faces too. I won't smoke in the vehicle, always make pit stops. I won't smoke in a non-smokers house, I'll go outside. Heck I go outside here at home!! I don't smoke in my own vehicles or in my own home.
     
  6. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Yeah - we don't smoke in our house either. The mudroom is also known as the smoking room... LOL! Or we go all the way outside, usually. And I have to admit, my house is cleaner...
     
  7. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    All our hospitals have a no smoking policy on the entire property and public buildings have a no smoking policy inside the building, but do have receptacles for butts in a designated smoking area outside. We recently went to UCONN for my H and there were signs everywhere that they had just gone completely smoke free for the entire property, not just the building.

    How do I feel about it? Anything that inhibits a person from smoking is a good idea in my opinion. I'm going on 12 weeks solid not smoking, so I say this only because I can't put myself in any situation where smoking is available or accessible...lol.
     
  8. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    So this is where you work? Is that why you are asking?
    Just curious, because our laws are that you can't smoke in a hospital building and pretty much any building. The law also says that people aren't allowed to smoke within 50 feet of an entrance to a building. I happened to like that, because I can't tell you how many times I've gone to walk into a store and all of the employees and patrons are just outside the door and I have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get inside, which defeats the purpose of having a smoke free building. Unfortunately, a lot of people completely ignore that law. I've gone to walk into our local hospitals and people are outside the doors smoking. So, if you don't work there and have to leave, who is to enforce the people who are there visiting?

    I don't agree that you should be made to leave the property if you are smoking in your car. That is kind of dangerous. They should make an area outside the building that should be reserved for people who do smoke. Most work places in NJ have a place for people to go for that.
     
  9. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    We have the same laws here; no smoking anywhere on hospital property, even in your own car.

    I'm not a smoker and I don't like to be around second hand smoke. However, I really think this law goes too far. What ever happened to personal freedom in this country? If you choose to smoke, outside, away from the building, in your own car or whatever, it's nobody's %^&*ed business. We have proven time and time again that you absolutely cannot pass enough laws to make people do what is good for them. As far as I'm concerned that is not what government should be doing.
     
  10. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I'm a smoker and my response is going to be an unpopular one. Yeah, smoking has always been bad for you. I know that, no biggie. I still have issues regarding second hand smoke so called causing this or that. A bunch of baloney. A huge bunch of baloney. Ok, if someone is allergic....yeah probably, otherwise? hogwash. I've read "study" after study, they don't "prove" squat. Why? Because any study, even done properly, will prove or dis-prove anything you want it to. It's the nature of the beast. There are far far too many environmental factors out there to take in to account alone. And sorry but if companies and cars can still pump their toxic crud into the air.......don't *itch about me smoking in my own privately owned car.

    That said? These laws for the most part are useless. Pretty much the same way seatbelt and insurance laws are useless. People are going to do what they do, regardless of such silly laws.

    Here we have a law that prohibits smoking up to 150 feet or so outside any public building or inside a building. No smoker I've ever seen follows it. I know I don't. I'm already outside, get over it. The law isn't worth the paper it's printed on because there is NO way to enforce it. Which they soon discovered. lol

    The smoking in your car with kids in it? Stupid. Another almost impossible law to enforce. (you know how well it works with cell phones and that is way more dangerous) I thank God that one hasn't passed here or I'd be breaking the law on an even more regular basis. My car, I bought and paid for it, I'll do as I please while sitting in it.

    Smoking is bad for you. Yep get that. But removing personal rights is much much worse for you. Why? Well, see it worked with drugs (remember the take their propery laws?), is working with smokers, and now they've moved on to fast food.........next will be candy (fattening) and lord only knows what. Simply because they stomped on personal rights and got away with it. It won't stop with the little things, trust me. They were just testing the waters.

    Smokers as a whole pay as little attention to these laws as did drinkers over prohibition. Those who were considerate of non smokers before these laws (I'm one of them) are still considerate, those who weren't still aren't. Only progress I've seen is the removing smoking from restaurants and hospitals........and that was happening LONG before any law was put into place.

    Yeah. I can just see cops hunting down the deadly smokers in their cars. lmao So not happening......they've much bigger fish to fry and I for one would rather they stick to the big guns.

    So while it's not that I know smoking is bad for me. I knew it was bad for me the day I lit my first one more than 30 yrs ago. I guess my point is that making useless laws doesn't stop people from doing what is bad for them.

    by the way as far as smoke free hospitals? Doesn't work. We have them all over the place. People still smoke outside, in their cars, will smoke a cigarette while walking to the front doors and lite one up soon as they step outside. I know because I'm one of them. lol Write me a ticket, go ahead. But I have to give you a name to put on that ticket, and seriously do you think I'm going to do that? I'll just keep right on walking like I've done with every "security guard" so far. Doesn't phase me.

    in my opinion a campaign to educate and help people have more consideration for others would've worked so much better. And we wouldn't have a ton of useless laws on the books.
     
  11. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    I don't work there no. It is near to my home and with MS I spend enough time there lol. yes I'm a smoker but actually i agree 100% with most all no smoking policies, by laws and legislation in our province. We have a 9 meter rule from public buildings. I personally would have no problem if they extended that to force smokers even further away from buildings. Even as a smoker I can't stand walking through a group of smokers, so dont' at all blame non smokers for wanting to access public buildings without subjecting themselves to the bad habits of others (including myself).

    I do not even have a problem with a complete smoke free hospital property if there is a safe off site location for smokers. This hospital does not have access to a safe off site location. It is located backed onto very dense woods. One side has the Trans Canada Highway (right at a intersection to boot) which obviously doesn't have a sidewalk or safe place to stand, especially at highway speeds of cars travelling and living so far north with winter snow/ice the danger is very real. The other side is a very busy road to the University, only road in and out for a college and university plus 7-8 major residence apartment buildings. It is also at a intersection that turns in one direction to access the highway. Again there is only the tiny dirt side of to the road as a place to stand off hospital property. The 4th side of the hospital houses the parking lot that ends at the road that turns onto the highway. So there is literally no option that is safe for a smoker to go off hospital property.
    There is however a huge section of grassed area that extends way back behind the hospital before the dense woods begin. I guess I figure that in a province where a pack a day smoker pays $7-8 in just tax (sin tax), where most smokers would prefer to follow the laws for smoke free facilities etc, I'd like to see a safe option. Safe not just for the non-smokers but also for smokers. If the end goal is to discourage convenience of smoking (good goal) and to protect others from second hand smoke (good goal) it seems to me that many places opt to flat out refuse to consider making it possible to safely follow the no smoking laws and limitations.

    If there is a very distant location at this hospital (or other places) for smokers that makes it inconvenient (but at least safe) to smoke and protects non smokers, I suppose I can't see the merit of attempting to drive people very far away into unsafe places for their "fix". Being realistic, most people are going to just puff away somewhere they feel is reasonable but others probably won't (and often times shouldn't!) feel is reasonable. Can one imagine driving down the main national highway and seeing a large group on the side of the highway with traffic doing 100 or faster whizzing by, smoking away. With wheelchairs, IV poles, etc? To fully stop smoking, banning it would be the route to go but that is never going to happen. Given the fact that it is legal, I dont understand certain policies on where people can and can't smoke. most make sense to me as stated in my first portion of this post. However some baffle the mind. I'd sure love to see how they are going to handle seriously mentally ill patients smoking on a trans canada highway with all that traffic as well.

    I just wonder where balance is going for things these days (don't mean just smoking laws). And I wonder where smokers rights to smoke legal and hugely taxed smokes are supposed to fit in along side the right of non smokers to not be affected by their smoking. It seems it used to be slanted to smokers at the huge expense of non smokers. Now it seems that it is the popular politic approach to pretend to lean so hard on smokers in order to accept huge taxes for a product that they call poison (it is!) but have no initiative in actually preventing people from using in their lives.

    We have a no idling policy here. But walk out of any hospital or mall and the toxic poison from the exhaust from parked but idling cars right at the doors is what I walk through basically into all public buildings that have curb side drive up ability, even when they are designated fire zones or drop off/pick up zones only. that annoys me as much as a big cloud of smokers smoke, if that makes sense.

    Anyhow, I totally respect everyones differing opinions even if they dont' agree with mine, just for the record lol.
     
  12. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Lisa....I so agree with you 100%.

    I smoke. Get over it. I think I have a picture of me giving the one finger salute to a sign they put up in a parking lot of the local mall simply because they stuck a doctors office associated with the local hospital there. Not smoke in the mall parking lot? Oh yeah right! Over my dead body.

    The day I will give up my rights to do something legal like smoke cigs or drink soft drinks or eat fast food in my car or house, is the day the government decides to buy my car or house for me. Only then do they have the right to tell me what I can do in my own personal property.

    I also think its absurd to outlaw happy meals when they have legalized pot. The folks who smoke the pot need the happy meal.
     
  13. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    :rofl:
    Amen
     
  14. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I had never thought of that. There is a smallish medical center at the end of their block and their people are always standing out on the sidewalk or in their car parked at the curb smoking. I'd never considered that their employer might be regulating smoking in cars. Those on street parking spots are really popular with a certain group in spite of ample parking in the lot.
     
  15. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    :rofl: :rofl: Janet so very true.

    You know, how about a little bit of consideration for us smokers while we're at it, huh? I think that is part of what irks me the most. This bit is not a two way street.

    When I worked at Meijers dept store years ago (we're talking like more than 15 yrs ago here, so see places were doing it long before any law) they were considerate enough of ALL their employees to have 2 break rooms right next to each other. One for non smokers, one for smokers. The smoking room was sealed off with it's own ventilation system that sucked the smoke up out of the room, think bathroom fan only more powerful.....was sort of hard to talk over the motor until you got used to it. Non smokers didn't have to contend with the smoke and smokers could smoke in peace without having to go outside and endure the weather whether it be beastly hot, raining, cold or snowing. People loved it. Not so much of a wiff of smoke made it into the main non smoking break room.

    When I was at the college they wanted you to follow the law. Fine. But going to your car to smoke was not feesable if you wanted to make it to the next class on time or were just on a class break. Going that 150 feet doesn't seem like much except when the weather outside is horrible. I've went nose to nose with many college staff over not going out into the rain to smoke but instead standing under the over hang over the doors.....not right up on the door, just still protected by the over hang. One got snotty with me and said SHE didn't appreciate walking through smoke as she exited the door. I told her then petition the college to build an enclosed smoker hut, because until they had it I wasn't moving. I as as smoker paid to be there, I as a smoker was NOT going to stand in the rain just to have a cigarette. She stomped off in a huff. lol

    When on clinicals...................you wouldn't believe how nursing staff cover for each other so they can have a cigarette during break and at lunch..........and it makes for longer breaks for both because they have to leave campus to do it or risk their jobs. But nurses cover for each other because the job is stressful, and having a smoker who is a nurse on edge and a bit cranky cuz it's already been 4 hrs since the last cigarette..........is not a good idea. lol

    The rehab/nursing center I did clinicals at outright broke the law. It allowed residents their own smoking room as well as provided a protected area for employees right outside the breakroom on a patio. Residents were thrilled. Staff is happy and breaks are as long as breaks are supposed to be because no one has to go hither and yond to find a safe place to smoke. Non smokers are happy because it's not in their faces and they don't have to cover for someone needing to go waaaaaaaaaay other there just to have a smoke.

    There are far better ways to handle the smoker/nonsmoker issues without writing up a bunch of useless laws that stomp all over human rights and can't even be enforced. People just need to use their brains instead of depending on govt to "make it all better or be our d*mn parent".
     
  16. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Not sure about where I'm living now, not even certain about new laws back home, but I do recall that back home outside the entrances to the main hospital (front entrance and ER entrance) they had these shacks that looked like completely enclosed bus shelters (but bigger). This was the smoking area, complete with benches, industrial ashtray thingy, and its own ventilation system, about 20 feet from the door.
     
  17. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    What really has me irked is that a whole town in SC...a complete town...including the beach and ocean is now smoke free!

    Well guess who will never be going to that town again? I want to know exactly how one decides to govern the air and water that only GOD himself actually owns. I guess if you want to get technical...the people of the USA own the air we breathe or mother nature or whatever. I also think its a bit ludicrous if you think about it when I live in the south and this place was built on the backs of BIG TOBACCO.
     
  18. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    I think the thought for that town is actually admirable janet, so long as they don't partake of the sin tax payments relayed from federal government to state and municipal governments! If they dont' take tax from the sales of cigs, I say they should be able to declare the entire town smoke free. Many would move there! (Not me,I'd be passing through with a patch on to a town to have a pit stop for a smoke lol) But I bet they DO take the tax benefits ... now I'm curious about that town and if the tax thing has been mentioned in terms of this town lol. Here I go google!
     
  19. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    If you ask me (and you didn't!) we've gone so far off into "political correctness", it's starting to get ridiculous!

    I worked for the State and the powers-that-be decided that all the State buildings would be smoke-free, which was fine. But the rural institution where I worked decided to take it one step further and prohibit smoking on the whole property ... all 53 ACRES of it! It's so rural that when you look out, all you see is thousands of acres of woods on all sides! I honestly don't see how one of us smoking a cigarette in our own car on the far end of the huge parking lot would be polluting all of that ... So what we had to do was go out and get in our cars and drive 1.2 miles down the road to a little turnoff where we would pull off the road and smoke. When we came back, we had to go through all the security checkpoints that took 5-10 minutes to get back inside! A lot of time wasted there but it wasn't our idea! We had two breaks a day and our lunch time so we did this three times a day. Then they would complain that we "took too long on break"! We had to go through all of that but those people who worked in the main offices downtown, all they had to do is go out of their building and there were benches and ashtrays provided for them on the sidewalk!
     
  20. cmfout

    cmfout Guest

    I'm a smoker. I also wish I wasn't. My state has a smoking ban within 25 feet of public buildings, at bus stops, and all medical facility locations - even the local doctors office, smoking isn't allowed anywhere on the property, even in your car. I agree with the idea of the bans, but I think they take them way too far. A local small business, owned and ran by a father and his adult daughter, was recently fined so heavily that they had to shut their doors. The reason? The daughter lived in a small apartment in the back of the building. She smoked, and some of the smell managed to make it's way into the business area of the building. She aired it out daily and smoked outside during business hours, and only smoked in her apartment at night when the weather was bad. I could understand if they warned her not to smoke in the building at all. Fine her if she keeps doing it. But to fine them so heavily that they went out of business with the first offense? That's wrong, in my opinion.
     
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