Questioning my soon to be 4 year old sons behavior

[ajscarver]

Never thought I would be questioning anything about my child that I couldn't figure out on my own. I have 2 sons a 6 year old and a soon to be 4 year old (in Oct.) Never went through anything I couldn't handle with my oldest, but with my youngest I question myself every day it seems. A little background on my yougest. He was breastfed until 2 years of age (self weaning) hit all his milestones crawling, walking, speaking, and toilet training (etc.). I was always told by his daycare (which he has gone since he was 6 months of age due to both my husband and I working) that he is a very strong willed baby/child. For example he could never be placed in a high chair as he would be out in seconds and sitting on top of the tray (yes even strapped in but not too tight as we nor they wanted to hurt him). Same goes for this carseat I can't really remember the last time I could get him to stay in one. I continue every day to speak with him about the saftey of the car seat and he tells me he understands yet once we leave the driveway he is already getting himself out (he pushes down the saftley bucklet as far as he can and slips his legs and hands out over top of the buckle). The only way I can get him to stay in a carseat is if my husband is in the passanger seat and I keep my rear view mirror on him and as soon as I see him start I tell him to please stop and stay in his carseat and then my husband will keep an eye on him. If you take one eye off him he starts trying again. When he does get out (which I hate admitting is often) all he wants to do is sit in his car seat and be able to pull his legs up close to his chest or have them hanging off the sides. He was never able to stay in a crib as he was always climbing out (at home & Difficult Child) so he moved to a toddler bed fairly early. He's never been a sleeper or well just sleep in general his naps stopped shortley at the age of 1 1/2 at home. Now he will take a nap if he has been extremely exhausted I mean if we have been at it all day non stop for nothing..lol His older brother goes to bed between 8:00-9:00 he goes to bed between 10:00-11:00 and even then that is just in bed once I close his door he is up jumping off his bed, climbing the dresser etc. I usually let him play a little before I go in and tell him it's time to sleep then after about 3 times he finally gives in. Then he is up at the crack ass of dawn as I would say..lol He has the hardest time sitting still lets see breakfast lunch and dinner he can't sit still he is up moving about while my husband, older son and I are sitting down at the table. He wiggles his legs, spills things and spills things constantly and just gets up out of his seat and walks around then comes back to the table and it starts all over. Also when meal time comes I noticed he shoves very large amounts of food in his mouth at once. I try helping him showing him to take smaller bites, but he says he can't that he has to have his mouth full. I've never seen anything like that before. I cut his food into small portions and he just rakes them up on the spoon or fork and just keeps shoving. If I leave him with larger portioins he does the same but usually winds up in him gagging. I spend a lot of time outside with my boys obviously my youngest is in daycare M-F 8:00-5:00 as I work, but as soon as we get home we go outside. I interact with both my boys we toss the ball, I push them on the swings, we climb the climbing dome, dig in the dirt etc. But with my yougest it's different. We will be tossing the ball then with in just a few sec. he runs over to the swing and demans I push him. I go over and start pushing him just after a few pushes he jumps down and wants to dig. We dig maybe a few sec. then he is at the climbing dome, then after a few sec. we are passing the ball again. It's like he can't keep focues on just 1 thing at a time. I try to get him to and tell him we are going to pass the ball for 5 min. then we will swing but he can't even last 5 min. Everything we do I know he enjoys, but it just seems like he can't stop for 5 min. to finish. It gets a little frustrating. When we go on walks both my boys know they need to stay near me but regardless of how many times my yougesnt just takes off flying running really far infront of me which results in me taking them both back home which isn't fair to my 6 year old. Same with bike rides that is a joke and I can't even let them because of my 3 year old. I hate putting the blame on him when I know as a parent I feel like I failing everyday. Yesterday his daycare was closed and with school being out I had to take both the boys to work with me. I work for a small company that needs me hear regardless so they were okay with me bringing them (I do keep items at work with me toys, coloring books, balls, games, ect.) I noticed through out the day my 3 year old kept screaming. Nothing would be going on he would just be sitting on the couch (wiggling..lol) and then just out of no where bolt out a very loud scream. I asked him why and he says I don't know. I explain to him that we use our inside voice but it doesn't matter. When I take him into the store it's well crazy. I now go grocery shopping at night when my husband gets off work at 11:30 pm. My yougest can't and wont sit in the cart. He runs ahead of me and bumps into other ppl. I don't get temper tantrums. Which I find stragne. He doesn't go off and scream kick yelling crying. Also when we are watching tv which is usually animal plant both my boys love animal plant. They will both be sitting and doing just fine then out of know where once a commercial comes on my yougest will hit his older brother or me or the dog or what ever is near him (daycare has this problem as well). I don't know I guess the list could go on and on you know. I love doing things with my boys taking them to parks going on walks, playing outside, playing board games but it seems like all my focus and attention winds up on our yougest. We we play games like candy land He can't wait his turn he tosses game pieces, bends cards and just walks away. I've never seen him sit down for 5 min. (not talking about tv) and just play with something. He losses focus very easy. It's very hard to talk with my son as well. We were at a gas station a this morning and I had both the boys with me inside. I let them each pick a piece of candy and we were in line waiting and my yougest just couldn't stand still he knocked over bags of chips (on accident he ran into them) so I got down to his level to talk with him and he shoved his head in my face and said mommy do you smell my hair mommy huh huh do you smell my hair and started bursting out laughing. I don't know where that came from. I asked him in the car why he did that and he said cause mommy you are always talking to me and I don't want to talk anymore. I know daycare has problems with him as well. He has been wrote up and placed on red a lot, but never kicked out. They just tell me he's got a lot of energy (hyper) strong willed and hopefully he will outgrow it. He doesn't stay in his seat when they are doing certain things like coloring, class work, circle time. I just want to see if I need to speak with his doctor. about any of this. I mean he has a ton of personality let me tell you my day is never borning and he always makes me laugh. I forgot to mention his climbing... I probably forgot to mention a lot of things. He climbs my hutched, kitchen table, car, and dressers well just anything he can climb he will. I go through this daily as well. I don't know what to do. I worry so much and I do redirect but regardless how many times he goes back at it. As far as discapline goes I've done time outs, taking things away, not allowing him to do things with me, spanking (which I hate) etc. I also do a reward system for both my boys if they have had a good day and stayed out of trouble at school/daycare (staying on green) they get a piece of candy and change to put in their piggy banks. I also will give them candy if they have done something nice/good. Like helped clean up or played well together. I know I"m not the best parent in the world, but I do try my hardest. I was just hoping for some input/advice on what others think. Any advice or help would be much appriceated

 

[Malika]

Hello and welcome. Cyber diagnosis is a dangerous occupation but... your son sounds like a classic case of ADHD. I can see lots of parallels with my own son, now 5. One of the things that has always frustrated me a bit is when people say "all children are active" or "all boys are energetic"... well, yes, but not like THIS, I always think. People don't really get it... the parent can see, from a very young age, that something different from the norm is going on - and it sounds like you are at this place.
One of the decisions you face is whether you are going to do the maximum to accommodate your son as he is or whether you are going to prioritise trying to make him fit into the world... a question on which whether or not to medicate may well hang, at least at this early stage. It sounds like your son has lots of qualities and strengths - it's not all negative. He's very bright, lively, curious, spirited, life-enhancing... you need to play to his strenghts, find out how to parent him differently. "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene is good. The normal techniques don't work.
I expect others will be along with more advice. Are you going to get your son evaluated?

 

[ajscarver]

Hello and welcome. Cyber diagnosis is a dangerous occupation but... your son sounds like a classic case of ADHD. I can see lots of parallels with my own son, now 5. One of the things that has always frustrated me a bit is when people say "all children are active" or "all boys are energetic"... well, yes, but not like THIS, I always think. People don't really get it... the parent can see, from a very young age, that something different from the norm is going on - and it sounds like you are at this place.
One of the decisions you face is whether you are going to do the maximum to accommodate your son as he is or whether you are going to prioritise trying to make him fit into the world... a question on which whether or not to medicate may well hang, at least at this early stage. It sounds like your son has lots of qualities and strengths - it's not all negative. He's very bright, lively, curious, spirited, life-enhancing... you need to play to his strenghts, find out how to parent him differently. "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene is good. The normal techniques don't work.
I expect others will be along with more advice. Are you going to get your son evaluated?

I've never thought of getting him evaluated until recently. I really don't even know how to go about things. I decided just today to acutally look on the net about hyper 3 years olds and I came across this group and was hoping if I posted a little info about him maybe I could get some advice. Either telling me hey girl you have a normal 3 year old boy don't worry or hey maybe calling his pediatrician. doctor. might not be a bad idea and they can guide you. I guess I just go back and forth should I call the doctor. should I not. Is he how do you say a "normal" toddler or is he not? I struggle with this everyday. I've spoke with his daycare (he has gone to this daycare since he was 6 months old) and they tell me he is hyper and strong willed, can't sit still and focus, but he may outgrow these things.

 

[InsaneCdn]

but he may outgrow these things.

It's a nice theory, but... I haven't seen it.

Time alone does make SOME difference when the problem is lack of maturity.
But... not being able to focus? Get an evaluation. Not just a pediatrician's opinion. A comprehensive evaluation.

They won't be able to really test for APDs at this age - but Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) kids can have many of the same symptoms as ADHD kids, including not being able to sit still. For ADHD kids, it's hyperactivity... for Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) kids it's sheer boredom, because they can't follow what is going on around them. One thing to watch for is how well he does with multiple verbal commands in different environments... Can you ask him to take some tp to the bathroom, then get a specific thing from his room? Or go do three specific activities, in order, on the playground, especially if it is noisy?

How well does he play with kids his own age? ADHD kids are typically immature.

 

[keista]

Welcome! Sounds like you have a budding Houdini too! My DD2 spent a total of 30 minutes in her high chair - that's added up over her entire babyhood. She just wouldn't stay in it. She also would get out of her onesies and diapers without opening either up. We never saw her do it, just the results.

Yes, he sounds very ADHDish, but also very sensory seeking. Mouth must be full, must climb to the top of things. He also sounds very smart. It's great that he was able to articulate the fact that he's tired of you talking at him. in my opinion that means he totally gets your rules and where you're coming from, but can't help himself. You can keep talking, but that won't change his behavior and he knows that, BUT he does NOT know why.

Have you had any evaluations yet? Early Steps, First Steps, Early Intervention? These can usually be done through your school district. Short of that, maybe a referral from your pediatrician. This is NOT a phase and this is NOT normal boy behavior - it really is so much more. Convincing others, even pedi, can be difficult, but you need to get past that hump to get to viable evaluations.

 

[ajscarver]

It's a nice theory, but... I haven't seen it.

Time alone does make SOME difference when the problem is lack of maturity.
But... not being able to focus? Get an evaluation. Not just a pediatrician's opinion. A comprehensive evaluation.

They won't be able to really test for APDs at this age - but Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) kids can have many of the same symptoms as ADHD kids, including not being able to sit still. For ADHD kids, it's hyperactivity... for Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) kids it's sheer boredom, because they can't follow what is going on around them. One thing to watch for is how well he does with multiple verbal commands in different environments... Can you ask him to take some tp to the bathroom, then get a specific thing from his room? Or go do three specific activities, in order, on the playground, especially if it is noisy?

How well does he play with kids his own age? ADHD kids are typically immature.

Hmm, as far as the verbal commands go I will try these with-him this evening and see how it goes. His Difficult Child says he plays well with- the children in his age group. I've noticed when we are out at say a birthday party or even with cousins he is very shy at 1st. He will hide his face in my legs or ask that I hold him which I do and eventually he will warm up. I also notice this when I drop him off at daycare every day (M-F). He will walk only so far then when we get close to his room I have to carry him. I wish he could be like the other kids and just walk in all happy go lucky, but that's just my boy & I love him regardless. He hugs me really tight and his friends will say "Hi come over here" or one of them will come over and ask him to play, but he wont let me put him down & he wont even look at them. I have to hand him to his teacher & she holds him (when they don't hold him he runs for me and grabs my legs he doesn't cry but doesn't want to let go). They say once I leave he has to warm up to them (this has always been the case with him).

 

[ajscarver]

Welcome! Sounds like you have a budding Houdini too! My DD2 spent a total of 30 minutes in her high chair - that's added up over her entire babyhood. She just wouldn't stay in it. She also would get out of her onesies and diapers without opening either up. We never saw her do it, just the results.

Yes, he sounds very ADHDish, but also very sensory seeking. Mouth must be full, must climb to the top of things. He also sounds very smart. It's great that he was able to articulate the fact that he's tired of you talking at him. in my opinion that means he totally gets your rules and where you're coming from, but can't help himself. You can keep talking, but that won't change his behavior and he knows that, BUT he does NOT know why.

Have you had any evaluations yet? Early Steps, First Steps, Early Intervention? These can usually be done through your school district. Short of that, maybe a referral from your pediatrician. This is NOT a phase and this is NOT normal boy behavior - it really is so much more. Convincing others, even pedi, can be difficult, but you need to get past that hump to get to viable evaluations.

Yeah the mouth being full just seemed a little strange to me cause I've never heard of someone doing this. A few ppl have said man that boy must be starving the way he shoves that food in his mouth. He just keeps packing it in and packing it in until he has to swallow. He's not starving trust me. I don't laugh or make any comments to give him postive attention for it. I have tried to help him take just 1 bite and he says it's too hard he needs more in his mouth.

As far as any testing or evalution goes no I have not. I keep thinking maybe I should speak with his pediatrician. doctor. about it, but then I back out. On my break I'm going to look up that adhd or add and see what it has to say. I've never looked it up but I have had a few ppl tell me man your boy has add in a joking manner. I just say yep he's a little hyper and it's never a boring day with him that's for sure. Do they have a list of things to watch for?

 

[TeDo]

There are many site that will list "signs" for ADHD. If it is that, it's the hyper kind, not just the attention. I also agree that there is a lot of sensory issues. Not liking to be "strapped down" sounds like a sensory thing. So does the mouth needing to be full to eat and climbing/jumping on things. A good Occupational Therapist can evaluate and help with all of that. Find one that works with kids and ask for a full sensory evaluation. The one we found was AWESOME and was very helpful (difficult child 1 has seeking and avoidance issues). I would also recommend you find a neuropsychologist or a Developmental Pediatrician to do a thorough evaluation. The good ones do such a thorough evaluation that CAN give you quite accurate insight into what is going on. If that is not an option, you might want to find a PhD level psychologist to evaluate him. Once you find one, simply ask your pediatrician for a referral to that particular person/place. A pediatrician is NOT the right person to diagnose and/or treat these kinds of issues. In some cases, they can end up doing more harm than good.

Welcome to our little corner of the world. I am so glad you found us. There is a wealth of knowledge here based on personal experience, not from textbooks like the "professionals".

 

[Malika]

Is he how do you say a "normal" toddler or is he not? I struggle with this everyday.

From what you have described so far, no. Frankly. But what we know here is that not being normal is quite fine, even if it takes a while to realise that.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Normal? What's "normal"?

Most "diseases and disorders" affect less than 2.5% of the population.
ADD/ADHD affects somewhere between 5 and 15 % (depending on which studies you believe... nobody claims it's less than 5%).
Therefore... is ADD/ADHD really a disorder? or just an extreme case of normal?
It is an interesting philosophical question.

The more important question is, does this affect HIS quality of life?
From what you write, it does.
There are safety issues, for starters.
He will definitely have challenges when he starts school.

Best thing you can do is figure out what makes your kid tick, so you are as far ahead of the game as you can get. (unfortunately, none of us truly gets ahead of the game with kids like "ours", but... )

Expect pushback during the process, though. You'll probably hear that is "isn't all that bad" or "he'll grow out of it" or "you don't know what normal is"...

Before you get appointments, start lining up info.
Start a journal/log/parent report/anything similar... what is his day like? patterns? behaviors? comments from daycare? now much he eats, how he eats, etc.

 

[BusynMember]

I would take him to a neuropsychologist to test for everything. I can guarantee you that many disorders resemble ADHD and that ADHD is usually the first diagnosis. a child gets. It is often not the last or the only one.

My son used to, as we called it, hang from the chandeleirs. He was out of his crib before age one as he could climb out. He could and would unlock the front door at 3am so we had to get a very high bolt. He put pennies into a socket and killed our fish (and luckily was not too badly shocked himself). He touched everything and took things apart. He never stayed in his car seat so we kept him at home unless his big sister could come with and hold him in his car seat (which made him scream). When he got mad he kicked, bit, and screamed bloody murder. He was never ever sti ll. He was first dxd. with ADHD (severe), but it was later changed to bipolar (wrong) and then autistic spectrum high functioning (right). Many Aspies are brilliant and impossibly hyper. Your child may have ADHD, but in my opinion it's best to leave no stone unturned. That's why I suggest a neuropsychologist. They do TONS of intensive testing. I've seen no professionals who are as intensive.

Good luck and please keep us posted ! by the way, son is a couch potato now. He still moves around when he is sitting, but he is no longer destructive or a screamer and he is drug free. Be carefully of jumping on ONE diagnosis. and deciding that it is the answer. You simply don't k now yet.

We started this merry diagnostic ride at two, when we adopted him. He is now almost 19. His diagnosis kept changing! Expect that to probably happen Take care!

 

[InsaneCdn]

. Be carefully of jumping on ONE diagnosis. and deciding that it is the answer

Be expecially careful not to do that. Complex kids come in layers, usually develop unevenly, and often don't fit in "neat little boxes".

Some kids DO have a single "killer" diagnosis, one that really covers the bases. More often than not, there is more. Some kids have more than one "killer" diagnosis - like autism plus Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) (there's more than one of those around this board). Others have a long list of "lesser" dxes, but taken together, it's huge.

And then... keep your eyes and mind open, because even if you get accurate dxes "now", things may change in 2 years or 5 years or at puberty...