Ramping up to the teen yrs and police intervention

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by TerryJ2, Sep 17, 2011.

  1. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I got to talk to the dr alone today. Gave him an earful. One reason he listened is because difficult child didn't even show up. Had to assert his independence and all that. But the empty chair was practically shouting at us.

    He did not know that difficult child was blocking my way into my ofc, and not allowing me to call for help. He said that is against the law. He did not know that easy child lived with-friends for several mo's to get away from difficult child, and that we have locks on several doors. (Sigh. Maybe he speed-reads and just gave the initial psychiatric notes the once-over last yr and forgot what little he knew.)
    Today he was right on top of it. Asked me if I'd ever called CHINS. I told him I was on a support board :) and you all had suggested it yrs ago. I called and they blew me off, said something like I had too high of an income. He shook his head and wrote it down. If and when I need CHINS, I know now to call and get him to do that paperwork.:) He said do not hesitate to call the police at the first sign of aggression. Yeah, that would be nice, if I could actually call. I laughed, held out my arms, and said that difficult child didn't leave any marks, and he said his job is to make sure that mom and dad don't get beaten up.
    :consoling: "You need to feel safe in your own home."

    I also told him about difficult child's anxiety issues with-opening and closing ceremonies at baseball. He was unaware of that, too.
    He is going to put difficult child on Abilify or another mood stablizer next mo, but didn't want to do it with-o difficult child being in the room. So we have an appointment and a plan. I told difficult child I'd let him get away once with-not going in, but he has to be there the rest of the time because the dr needs to see the real patient, because how does he know that mom and dad aren't eating the drugs? :groan:
    I think he understood that.

    Anyway, the dr said that we have to up the ante in regard to consequences and behavior since difficult child is now a teen, and it can only get worse, and I told him we had toured juvie yrs ago, and that the officer kept saying, "This kid is so good. Why did you bring him here?" doctor understood that ... he said most kids in juvie have some sort of untreated mental illness and difficult child is in for a rude awakening. Touring a smelly, empty bldg and being in the same cement bunk room with-a smelly, rude, potentially violent roomie is not the same thing.

    I talked to husband on the phone--he is out of town--and as I suspected, he was too busy the other day to understand that difficult child blocked me, physically, shoulder checked me, and prevented me from using the phone. He kept repeating, "But you said he got violent." I explained that IS violence and that the dr agreed. husband was sobered by that ... he doesn't "get it" and is often in la-la land. In fact, he's the one who came up with-the expression that if there's a room full of manure, he'd be looking for the pony.
    I keep telling him it's an elephant and the manure has been long gone.

    So when he gets home, I'll explain what the dr said about violence and what exactly violence is. husband has been watching too many shows where cars get blown up, and being too much of a "boys will be boys" guy to understand how this is really working.

    The dr also expressed concern about difficult child's potential to act out sexually with-girls, not knowing when enough is enough. When they say no, they mean it. I will find a time to talk to difficult child about that too. There are so many girls out there who are cougars, but then at the last second, they change their minds. Combined with-difficult child, that is a recipe for disaster.

    In the meantime, I got the scrips rewritten, all is calm at home, difficult child finally did the dishes from last night, My sister is bringing Dad back to assisted living from the cardiac unit of the hospital, and I am going to paint.
  2. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    Hugs. Sounds like we are in a similiar place, we can see the writing on the wall, but it is not dark enough or blatant enough for others to pay attention to.

    I think when I talked to the wrap people the other day, when I told them that difficult child had to eat breakfast in his room so easy child and I would not get verbally abused, I think that hit home. I will wait and see how the team meeting goes tuesday, but I am so scared for my difficult child, and thankful that I don't have to be scared OF him yet.
  3. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I know. I have to stop myself from worrying about how he will take care of himself 40 yrs from now after I'm gone. And if he'll hurt someone and then instantly regret it, but it's too late. I really have to learn to live in the moment.
  4. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    Terry, I share those fears too. My fear is that my difficult child will end up in jail, prison or worse. I think many of us have these fears. I look at my difficult child and all the medications he is on, and think what are we going to do with him as an adult? When the reality is, will he take medications as an adult? Will he be able to live on his own?

    For now, for me? Those questions are too overwhelming. I just cannot face them.
  5. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    ((((Hugs)))) Sorry things are the way they are. I know what you mean about being worried about the future yet having to live in the present because it is so overwhelming.
  6. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    I have been there done that....and worried myself sick over how Matt will take care of himself...if he is not in jail to even do so. Yet - knock on wood - the older they get - the more they do start to "get" it. Matt is not perfect or even close - but he is slowly learning how to be independent, live, and not get in trouble. Take hope in at least in that. However, I have to warn you - the years of 15-19 were the worst - EVER. Sending hugs.........and hope.
  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I think difficult child not going was maybe the best thing you could have had happen. I have found that most docs do not fully grasp what is on the notes/history in the chart. Some don't even read it, but most skim and don't really comprehend that we are not being dramatic when we say what our child has done. There were many times that I insisted the doctor speak to me alone before he spoke to Wiz. It seemed to help - don't forget that you CAN insist on this even if difficult child is there.

    As for the not letting you call for help, blocking you, etc... the doctor is totally right and your husband totally wrong. It IS violence. It is one of the issues I have with gfgbro, one of the reasons I gave when I cut all contact - he might not hit but he would hold me in place (or husband or the kids) and rant and rave and scream in our faces. The last time he held the car door so husband couldn't drive away - husband had already just agreed with him to get away, and had to block bro so the kids could escape the house, but bro got hold of the car door and wouldn't let it shut so if husband drove away he would literally drive over bro. I was told, over and over and over on a phone message, that I didn't understand what violence is, that he had been to three rounds of the therapy for abusers and he knew he wasn't abusive or violent to me and that he had a right to say whatever he wanted as often as he wanted in whatever way he wanted (leaving bruises on husband's chest as he poked him with a finger while he insisted he wasn't violent - gee, that isn't abusive?) and we HAD to listen because otherwise WE were being violent by denying his rights.

    It is illegal to not let someone call for help. in my opinion the next time your difficult child blocks you or shoulder checks you, or in ANY way prevents you from getting to the router to cut off his use or from getting to the phone, you must call 911 and have officers respond. difficult child is not going to get less violent and if you don't make your point in a HUGE way NOW, he is going to go a lot farther before much longer. There is a big difference between touring juvie and staying there. Not sure if it would help your son or not, you might want to run it past the psychiatrist, but maybe one of those programs that has him visit a prison and speak to inmates would be a good thing. The inmates are chosen VERY carefully - I promise you. They have gotten substantial training and therapy to help them understand their role and their own problems. My stepMIL works with setting up therapy programs in prisons worldwide, and has volunteered with the program seh sets up at two local prisons. She has helped choose inmates for these programs. It is NOT an easy thing for a prisoner to get into the program, and they have super strict rules.

    You need to not step down from turning off the router or whatever (would unplugging it be easier than whatever you are doing that makes you have to call Verizon for help getting it set back up?), but you need to recognize the danger that it puts you in. You have to dig deep and really accept that your child is capable of taking this way too far - so you have to make sure you have some way to reach help. Is it possible for you to register your cell phone with the police/emergency response so that if it calls and they don't hear you they send a car to your home to make sure you are safe? If so, keep your cell in a pocket at all times. Sit down with difficult child, at a time when you are calm and he is and if possible husband is home and calm. Sit and explain that from now on, the shoulder checking, blocking your way, etc... will result in a call to the police every time. That the behavior MUST stop as of that moment and that he cannot forget ever that he is not allowed to do that. You don't want him to have to deal with the long term results of a police record and even more of knowing that he hurt the person who loves him more than anyone else on earth. No one cares for him like you do, does for him the way you do, and hurting you in ANY way isn't just wrong, it will leave him with a lifetime of guilt and remorse.

    You can tell him about Wiz hurting me to the point I have nerve damage in my left hand. It not only hurts, esp if it is cold or the weather changes, I have to actually think to get my fingers to bend properly - typing is a hassle because the fingers don't want to bend properly. How would HE feel to look at you ten years from now, see you with a hand that worked awkwardly and painfully and know that HE caused it because he was upset that he couldn't do what he wanted - because he was having a childish rage over a game. Is a game going to be so important to him in ten, twenty, thirty years that he is fine with having given you years of pain because you insisted on sticking to a limit? How will he explain to HIS children about why Grandma has a problem typing a letter to them, or has problems with her painting, because HE attacked her?

    You CAN call a domestic violence center and get help. WHile they may not have programs for teens, his actions are enough to get him admitted to a group therapy program for abusers. What he is doing is called domestic violence in many people's minds, but it IS domestic violence and they will be a resource you can call on. Actually, making an appointment to speak with someone there to get info on what they have and get some pamphlets or whatever on how this is DV might be some of the wake-up call your husband needs to see that difficult child is truly behaving in a dangerous manner and that violence isn't just pistol whipping and blowing things up. I think it would be a good resource for BOTH your men, because until husband truly sees that this is violence against you, and truly is illegal and more than that, is WRONG, difficult child just is not going to see it as a problem. He will take his cue from husband for as long as he can find any tiny scrap of belief that shoulder checking and blocking you from doing something is not actually violent or wrong - and he won't stop. difficult child NEEDS both you and husband to be a united, immovable front if he is going to get through his teen years with-o real legal problems from this. Partly because you are going to end up really injured and the police won't ask your consent before they file charges and partly because difficult child won't limit this behavior to at home. He will try it at school, at a friend's house, or somewhere else and others will NOT be understanding.

    It might be good to talk to the DV center and then talk to husband, and then sit down with difficult child at a calm time. I am sure he knows he isn't allowed to block you, etc.... but you and husband sitting there, with husband finally believeing that it is DV and that difficult child could actually end up in juvie or even in prison with adult charges, well, that change will make a difference in how husband talks to difficult child about it. in my opinion you have to first get husband to really SEE that difficult child's actions are domestic violence and then have husband help you set down the law to difficult child (again) one last time. Have a plan of action for if husband is home and if he isn't, and stick to it.

    Part of what husband needs to see is that you are not just trying to keep difficult child from hurting you, you are fighting for his life, his future. Adult charges are not a joke, and could destroy his life. husband and difficult child BOTH need to see this.
  8. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Steely, for hope for the future, and SusieStar, for detailed, common sense info and advice.
    I agree.
    I don't know what else to say at this point. I'm going to bed. I will talk to husband and difficult child this week.
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I want to mention that group therapy for issues like this can be far more effective than individual therapy. Group therapy was the key in getting Wiz to realize that the things he did to Jess were not okay. It took longer to get him to be able to stop them, but the group therapy for abusers in the psychiatric hospital was what really turned the corner. His attitude that he had a God given right to do anything he wanted, no limits at all, to Jess upset another kid so bad the kid punched him in the face. psychiatric hospital wanted me to file charges, I wanted to buy the boy an ice cream. It was a HUGE shock to Wiz that another kid thought he was way out of line for what he did to Jess, and thought it was bad enough to try to beat him up and willingly took those consequences for attacking him. It was another HUGE shock that I wanted to reward the boy - I have never seen Wiz so confused. Someone hurt my child, I was supposed to go into a rage, demand he be removed from the psychiatric hospital, sue his family for millions of dollars, etc.... NOT ask if there was a way I could give the boy a gift for FINALLY showing Wiz that it wasn't just adults who were "out of touch with reality" who thought Wiz was doing bad things.

    So if there is an option for a group therapy of some kind for abusers, it may be a worthwhile thing for difficult child.

    There is a LOT of room for hope - the next years will be tough but if you are just as tough then the future really can be great for him. He just has to figure some things out. Reality Therapy and/or Choice Therapy are 2 books by Dr. Wm Glasser that might be a real help to you. My stepMIL sets up programs in prisons around the world to hel both lifelong inmates and those being released. For some reason, this seems to be amazingly effective. Locally she works with lifers, those with no hope of release, to get them to change their lives based on this therapy - and it works. Once they have fully accepted the therapy, they then teach it to those who have a chance to be released. It is very successful at reducing recidivism AND reducing violence in those who cannot be released. The books were very helpful to us, and I know that Star used at least one of them and it helped some. Just wanted to add that.
  10. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Terry, I am glad the psychiatrist talked to you like that. I have been extremely worried about you and your difficult child for quite awhile. Your son is being violent with you and it is just getting worse. You do need to put a stop to it now before it gets so out of hand that he hurts you and he gets into major trouble. You dont want that and you dont want him to have to live with that guilt. Its one thing to be verbally abusive but its a whole other ball of wax when they start laying hands on you.

    Personally, if he was my son, electronics would be gone until he started showing a whole lot more restraint. If he needs to use the computer for school, the local library has one. I realize he likes to break doors down but that is against the law and I would be calling them for it. Im mean and you know it. Of course, that is one reason that several times when Cory would have been arrested they sent him home with us because they knew we would punish him ourselves.

    I may be totally wrong but I dont think many of your sons symptoms - especially these defiant and violent symptoms- are from aspergers. I think there is something else going on there. Most aspies I know are really non violent.
  11. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    Terry, I've been there done that with both kt & wm. I'm notoriously adamant about calling 911 when either of the tweedles get out of control. Our psychiatrist has ingrained that into my mindset because as your psychiatrist told you one should feel safe in their own home.

    I'm glad that a plan is in place for difficult child ~ a crisis plan is important as difficult child is entering the tough teen years ahead.

    Take care of you & yours. I'm glad you're painting. I hope to join you in that endeavor soon
  12. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I think I met every member of our police force on the calls re: Kanga. Once our world settled down, I found the man that was the chief at the time and hugged him and thanked him for getting his officers training on dealing with the mentally ill because all but the last pair were outstanding and the last pair was sufficient.

    Do you have a cell phone? If not, get an emergency-only one. Keep it charged and in your pocket. Then if difficult child gets violent, you can run outside, hide in the bathroom, anywhere and make that call.
  13. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    ((HUS)) You know my/difficult child's stories so I won't repeat them.

    It's a catch 22. We either find a way to try to hang in there and ultimately enable it to continue or we turn them over to a system that's extremely difficult to get out of and really doesn't help them at all. In the end, you do have to protect yourself and remember that they carry some responsibility (if not all) for pushing things to the point that we parents are in this position to begin with. There is such a fine line between a parent doling out the rewards/consequences and ending up with a life where all we're doing is constantly reacting to the difficult child's actions or lack thereof, thus leaving the difficult child in control of the house.

    difficult child and I saw so many police officers in the last jurisdiction that we couldn't tell if we were looking at a "new" one or not when we'd run across them. The image of seeing my son in handcuffs numerous times will be burnt in my mind forever.
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you all.
    Funny, my daughter said the same thing about his violence. She thinks he also has antisocial personality disorder or a mood disorder. But she's only a 3rd yr psychiatric student Still, the only Aspies I know are also nonviolent. Or, at least, they have tantrums more like 2-yr-old than adult men.
    I am looking forward to next mo's appointment to get the new medication.
    Also, in regard to taking away all the games, his anxiety gets so ramped up that he follows me from room to room, totally perseverent, and gets angrier and angrier. This summer we shut everything down for a cpl wks, and he was absolutely obnoxious. This reminds me of the book The Manipulative Child, and I have to figure out what to do about it. I will talk to the "talk" therapist about it, along with-difficult child.
  15. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    The worst period of time in my life was when I had to carry an emergency cell on me at all times, and run away and hide to use it. It was horrible.

    That said - I always called saying it was a pschy emergency and had him put in phosph. Even when he later went onto Residential Treatment Center (RTC) that is how they would handle it if a kid got out of control and assaulted someone - they had the police escort them to phosph - and would refuse to press charges. I personally agree with this mind set. If a 15 yo is hurting his mom, he is ill, and he needs further help from a mental professional - not to incarcerated.
  16. Zardo

    Zardo Member

    I too had to use the police a few times to intervene and calm my 15 year old son down as he loudly and agrily refused rules and limits or attempted to run away in a fit of anger. This anger evolved over the course of a year and a half of a previoulsy normal boy. We later found out that he had been abusing alchohol, pot and was very caught up in the world of computer networking sites. I would question if maybe the same thing might be going on with him? It was a cocktail of influences that took over his life and all of these things were much more important to him than his parents or family. We ended up sending him to Wilderness therapy. The weekly counseling and DAILY group therapy turned him around. He has been home for about a month, so it's still early, but he has been a pleasure to have around since he has been back. He continues in weekly individual counseling and group therapy twice per week. He wanted to continue with the groups. I agree with the previous poster, the power of group therapy at this age far outweighes anything you can do as parents. If you cannot afford or don't want to take the step of sending him away (which we could not either - we used his college money and it was worth it), maybe you can find some group options near your home. In our state the info-line "211" can refer you to many affordable services. Many cities also have "family services centers" that offer all sorts of affordable services. I also know there is a hospital near me that has groups in an adolescent behavioral health clinic. It does take time to find out about these services, but I assure you that it is well worth it. If he refuses to go.....which I know can be a huge issue - I think you said he is 15 - he will be wanting to drive soon. "How can you take the steps for him to drive with this much chaos going on" - surely you can trade off that he attend these programs - and make progress - before you will even consider it. If that is not in the picture - then maybe he cannot have access to "creature comforts" such as a cell phone and the computer unless he attend. You will find that after the first meeting or two - he will want to go because the people that runs these groups are very good with teens and they meet other teens who are struggling with similar issues and it's a relief to be able to talk about it. Good luck!
  17. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you.
    Yes, I think we will get a lot of leverage out of his potential driver's license. :)

    I turned off the router today (hate to do that with-Verizon svc so finicky) but after 6 hrs, difficult child still hadn't washed the pots and pans, brought in the dogs, or taken a shower or brushed his teeth. He threw a fit. Luckily, husband was home, and helped play interference.
    difficult child insisted that he was going to turn off the computer in 15 seconds and it was all my fault for ruining what he was in the middle of. I told him he was 6 hrs and 15 seconds late. (I would have turned it off earlier but had to p/u husband from the airport, and visit P, and felt more comfortable risking a meltdown with-husband around.)

    After difficult child left the room, I said under my breath, "He is acting like such a baby."
    He heard me. husband said, "Well, you are acting like a kid instead of a teenager or man."
    difficult child said F-&*%*@%^@@! and then from the other side of the wall I hear this voice, "Oh, no, I didn't mean to say that. I'm sorry!" and he burst into tears.
    Arrrgh. Yes, he was acting like a baby. We both immediately told him we forgave him for swearing (that is the fastest turnaround in his history) and left him alone for a few min. When we left to go to a cousin's birthday party, difficult child was sitting on the couch writing me an apology for the other day.
    The apology said, "Dear Mom, I am sorry for doing whatever it was you thought I did so that you thought you had to call the police."
    Uhhhh ...
    I read it aloud and said, "Just because you didn't hit me or strangle me doesn't mean I wasn't feeling threatened."
    He said, "All I did was stand in front of you."

    So I said, "Not tonight, but sometime this week, we are going to play-act what happened and what you think you did, and what I think you did."

    He really doesn't get it. I want husband to be there, but I'm also going to check the calender for our next talk-therapy appointment because this would also be a good thing to do with-the therapist.
    Gosh, when I had kids, I thought I'd be teaching them to tie their shoes, say the alphabet, dial a phone, and write thank you notes.
  18. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    "Dear Mom, I am sorry for doing whatever it was you thought I did so that you thought you had to call the police."

    In other words: Its all in moms head and I'm sorry she called the police and got me in trouble because of it.

    I hope the role play works on both husband and difficult child.

    Good luck, you are one strong lady to keep up with everything emotionally.
  19. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Lol, Terry. I don't think even parents of the most perfect of easy child children have it quite that easy :)
    Hugs to you in this difficult time.
  20. Zardo

    Zardo Member

    Just a couple of thoughts - we did the talk therapy too and acted things out - and even though he would act like he was open to the thoughts there - it never helped "in the moment". I remember when he was at Wilderness, he refused to go with the school plan we had layed out for after the program. He was very angry, which he verbalized and then did not talk to us for 2 weeks. His counselor had said, let's see how he feels after he presents his position in "group" - the kids will definately tell him he is being ridiculous, he "earned" the plans that lay before him and his parents are being reasonable. He assured me that the peers reach these kids in a way that adults cannot. It's funny too - because all of these kids are in these groups for similar reasons, but it's funny how they can see other kids' issues clearly. The support and feedback from the "group" was consistantly on-point and - it WORKS. The other thing is, at the program, there is no access to cell phones, internet or video games. I have found that he uses all of these far less now and I also wonder if that has something to do with the progress he has made. I will say before we sent him away - the times that we took all devices away completely were the only times that his behavior was somewhat normal. So - I encourage you to find an adolescent group if you can.