Really Bad Night Last Night

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Bunny, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    difficult child got angry because he scared easy child and easy child screamed. Not at difficult child, but just like anyone would if someone frightened him. AHHHHHHHHH!!!!! You know what I mean? Anyway, he started screaming that easy child screamed at him and that he has to say he's sorry. I tried to tell him that he scared easy child and that easy child was not screaming AT him, he was just frightened.

    Then he starts screaming that easy child was in the bathroom and he wanted to take a shower and I had to tell him to get out of the bathroom RIGHT NOW!!!!! (because all this happened while easy child was trying to go to the bathroom). I calmly told him that easy child would be out of the bathroom when he was ready to come out and that he would have to wait. Not good enough. Screaming to get him out NOW!! When easy child did come out he went to go into his bedroom and difficult child went after him. Now, whether or not he meant to do anything to easy child I can't say for sure, but he was angry and I was not taking any chances. I pulled him out of easy child's room and went in to easy child's room. difficult child wouldn't let me close the door behind me and I had to stand behind the door to keep him from coming him. Finally, I went out of easy child's room and tried to get difficult child's hands off of the door handle because easy child wanted to lock his door. I was able to get his hands off the door long enough for easy child to lock the door, and that was when difficult child REALLY lost his temper. He punched me and kept trying to swing at me. I pushed him into his bedroom and tried to get him down on the ground and then all of the foul language started pouring out of his mouth. Every name in the book flying! While I'm not proud of it, I slapped his face when he called me a *****. Not exactly what any mom wants to hear and I lost my temper. I called husband and told him that he needed to come home and then I called my in-laws and asked them to come down so I was not home alone. And I told him that he was losing his video game privileges for the rest of the week because he hit me. Apparently he thinks that I'm being too hard on him because it’s all my fault that he had to hit me.
    Then he started in with that he was never going to school again. Now his homework wasn't done and he couldn't go without having his homework done. We told him he was going to school if his father had to put him in the car and walk him into the building himself. That was a non-issue. He goes to school. I got him up this morning and made him do at least some of the work, but he kept telling me that he was sad. Now, if he was sad about what happened last night or if he was sad because he can't play his video games, I'm not sure, but he was very mopey.

    He has an appointment with the therapist next Monday and with the psychiatrist on Wednesday, but he tells me that he is never going to see either one every again. We'll see about that.

    To be honest, he had a pretty decent Christmas vacation. Not too bad. A few minor issues, but nothing that I felt needed to be talked about and reported. Then this happens and I feel like I'm getting no where.
  2. buddy

    buddy New Member

    been there done that, no sibs but yeah, that all 5uck5.
  3. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Bunny, I'm sorry this happened and I know how hard it is. I can recognise something of all of this... and what I felt reading your post, while in no way blaming you (or if I did, I would have to blame myself alongside), was that things escalated into the red zone when everything goes crazy when there was perhaps a way to have kept them in the green. So many times this kind of thing has happened in my house (in terms of the intensity of emotion and anger) and slowly I am learning how to head things off, to make sure that we never reach the point where things are said and done in the heat of the moment that are not good, not wise, not skilful (on both sides).
    For me, as an outsider - you will know best as you were there - the key phrase for me was that you "pulled him out of easy child's room" and went into easy child's room. Quite understand why you did that but... perhaps it would have been better to just watch and see what he did at that point rather than taking pre-emptive action. From that point, difficult child felt unheard and mistrusted (from his point of view), and he started getting angry. The genie was out of the bottle.
    It's all so hard and exhausting having to manage these things rather than just reacting normally, I really know that. But I think one has to focus on not getting to the painful point.
    Do you know "The Explosive Child"? In the end, I think nothing really works with these explosive kids except that kind of method. They have an inordinate need to feel heard and respected, so engaging them with collaboration and negotiation makes them feel respected, which is the start of the road to some kind of peace.
    But if it was easy...
  4. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    Malika, I know what you are saying. Yes, I could have let him go into easy child's room to see what would happen, but they always say that the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior and I know in the past when he has gone after easy child like he did last night it was not to give him a hug and a peck on the cheek, if you know what I mean.

    After he calmed down, or calmed down as best as he could, and he started talking about he could not go to school because it's just too much for him I asked him to tell me why is was too hard. He just said that I didn't understand, to which I asked him to help me understand. Tell me why it's too much for him? Was it the school work? Were there problems with other kids? Please, I begged him, help me to understand so that I could help him. husband was standing right there, my in-laws were downstairs listening to what I was saying to him, but difficult child just kept saying that I didn't understand.

    Then he started in about his homework not being done. So, even though he had behaved the way he did I told him that if he wanted to stay up an extra half hour to try to get some of the work done I would allow that. Again, he just looked at me and said, "Like you would let me do that!" I told him that dad heard me say it and that Gram and Gramdpa heard me say it and that if that was what he wanted, I would do it. I figured that if he got some of the work done (because difficult child would rather get all his teeth pulled out without the benefit of anesthesia that have to go to school and tell the teacher that his homework wasn't done) he would feel less anxiety, less pressure, and would be able to tell me what the trouble was.

    While I did lose my temper, once I calmed down I did try to make him understand that I was listening and trying to understand what he was trying to tell me.

    He did admit to me this morning that he should have told easy child that he was sorry for scaring him. I'm not sure if that is real remorse, or he just wants his X-box back.
  5. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Could be both. Q will say to me somtimes... you thing i am saying sorry because I want X back right? I say, well why did you say sorry. He says well I do want X back AND I am sorry i said that to you.

    on those days when i get caught up in it, i do the same as you do.... go back and work on it. Q does the same thing often to me, no matter if there is a blow up or not... he says things like, I know you are lying. Or you are just saying that because Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) is here and then when they leave you will change your mind. I really dont do that and I ask him to tell me when I have done that. Then I caught myself once where he really was getting to do whatever it was that I had promised (oh, watching a sports thing on tv) and he kicked off in another way. The thing he was doing at that time was tv and after working on it for a long time, I finally pulled the plug. (that resets our locks). He said, see... I knew you would not keep your promise. ARRGGG so then we needed (after he calmed) to go thru the time line.. to see the plug pulling was not due to a lie....but due to the thing that happened right before it. he is not allowed to eat on the couch right there.... and the thing is our table is in the same room (a combo dining/living) so the thing is, no tv if he has food on the couch.... it is a consistent rule and if he breaks the rule then no TV. But in his mind, I said he could watch it no matter what.

    Stuff like that happens all the time here. I try to do better but I make lots of mistakes.
  6. soapbox

    soapbox Member

    Bunny -
    All he knows is that school "isn't working".
    Maybe he's been saying things all along - to the teachers, if not to you.
    And he's been right - but nobody believes him.
    They think he has an "attitude", rather than a valid challenge.

    Hidden disabilities slip through the cracks at school all the time.

    I don't remember all the details, and I might have posted some of this before on your threads... haven't time to look, so I'll just toss out the summary version of ONE possibility...

    APDs make it very difficult to follow verbal instruction. And so much of school is verbal - including multi-media. Difficulty processing verbal language - or even just difficulty maintaining focus on the important "sounds" in the presence of background noise (like a teacher's voice in the classroom) - can really mess up the learning experience. Kid can't follow instructions - other kids get brutal, real fast. "Boy, you must be stupid". And the teacher just tells you that you need to "try harder"? ... but the child doesn't understand how any of this works, and has internalized the "wrong" messages... so, has nothing to report to you.

    I'd be assuming there is something more at work, and be pushing edges for evaluations... right now, especially, I'd be pushing for Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation (motor skills and sensory), and Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) (auditory processing, including auditory figure ground which you may have to fight for...)

    Last comprehensive evaluation was when?
  7. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Bunny, this sounds like a page out of OUR book. When difficult child 1 gets an idea in his head ESPECIALLY when it comes to difficult child 2, he CAN'T let it go even if I tell him difficult child 2 doesn't owe him apology or whatever. He will do everything in his power to try to get whatever it is he thinks he "deserves" if it takes all day and he will hold a grudge until he gets it. That includes going into a room. He gets an idea in his head and he's like a dog with a bone. He cannot get that idea out of his head. by the way, in case you don't know, my difficult child's are on the spectrum.

    The hitting and the aggressiveness sounds just like difficult child 1 on Risperdal. It started when he was "pushed too far" and progressed until it was an all the time occurrance. I really hope that is not where you are heading.

    I really think you need to have your son evaluated by a neuropsychologist. What you described does NOT sound like ODD to me. It sounds to me like his thinking was "stuck".
  8. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    Tedo, he's been on the Risperdal for over a year now, so I'm not sure that that is the problem. He's actually done very well on it. He started Zoloft in late August and he says that that is what makes him behave badly. The psychiatrist thinks that a convenient excuse, because he does seem to be able to hold himself together more than he was. It just seems that when he truly spins out of control (like he did last night) he spins REALLY high. Is that the Zoloft? I'm not sure. He's on a very small dose, so the psychiatrist does not think so. I'll have to bring it up next week when we go to see him.

    I actually sent an e-mail to the guidance counselor this morning and simply told him that difficult child had a bad night last night and after it was all over he started in with "I can't go to school". I asked him to please speak to the teachers and find out if there is something going on. Is he having problems with his peers? Is he being bullied in any way? Is he having a problem with the work, althought I doubt that it's the work because he's an A student and they all say that he participates and is a pleasure to have in class. I just got a response from him telling me that difficult child came to speak to him before the break about a problem he was having with a femal student in the cafe. He told difficult child that he would speak to the girl and get back to him. The girl was absent yesterday, but he was able to speak to her this morning. I asked him if he could tell me what difficult child said about the problem and what the female student said. I'm waiting to hear back from him.
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    problem with asking the docs if they think that a medication could be the problem, they really dont know. yes of course it ALWAYS could be the problem. The medications are DESIGNED to change brain chemistry so of course the results will vary for each person and within each person over time as our bodies change in how they produce and use these chemicals. the only way to know FOR SURE is to stop the medication and make no other changes.

    i wish it was easier. It is obvious when it is a right away serious response but even then you wonder if their bodies get used to it just adjustment, so you sometimes wait....but it is still easier if it goes down that way and the symptoms dont go away or are intolerable.

    When it changes over time.... that is a harder thing to figure out. or if it is mild and kind of like what they do anyway but it seems a little worse or inconsistently in that range..... it can make our brains hurt trying to sort through it all!
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    And, of course, this difficult child is about 12...
    Which means that whatever worked "before" may be "out the window"...
    Because... the other thing that really affects brain chemistry is... hormones!!
  11. buddy

    buddy New Member

    dont i know that! uggg i hate puberty
  12. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    That DOES sound like a bad night....I'm so sorry.

    A word of advice from the "If-Only-I-Knew-Then..." Files - at his age, the physical stuff needs to stop YESTERDAY. He got physical and then you got physical...this is only going to lead to very bad places as he grows bigger and stronger.

    You need to sit him down (hey, sit the whole family down) and let him know that there is a new policy: NO HANDS ON ANYBODY. Period. No punching, no kicking, no pushing, no grabbing - it stops NOW. You are going to stop - and he is going to stop (and anybody else who needs to stop is going to stop).

    Next time somebody gets physical - you WILL call the police. Period.

    Now - nobody needs to get arrested...and police CAN give out-of-control kids a good "talking-to"...

    But the violent stuff has to end.

    I didn't call police on my daughter when she was that age (probably for all the exact reasons that just ran through YOUR head when you read this) - but if I had, the violence might not have escalated to the point that it did...

    I hope I can prevent someone else's family from even starting to head in that direction.
  13. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    Thank you Daisy. You're right about that. I said to my in-laws last night that he's doing this when he's 12. What he going to be like when he's 16 and REALLY bigger than me?

    As far as the puberty thing, yeah, we're going through that big time and it doesn't help anything.
  14. StressedM0mma

    StressedM0mma Active Member

    Bunny so sorry about your bad night. I hate when difficult child's get out of control like that. Mine has done that on occasion and it can be scarey. I hope today is going better.
  15. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Daisy Face gives some good advice, I think.
  16. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Wow. The others are right. It could be the Zoloft. It could be the Zoloft WITH the Risperdal (that combination might be bad for your difficult child). It could be puberty altering the way the Risperdal has been working. It could be a LOT of things and no, psychiatrists are sometimes quick to dismiss anything THEY haven't seen before. Our psychiatrist disregarded the issue we had with the Risperdal "because it doesn't have that side effect". Well, for difficult child 1 it DOES. Our next psychiatrist disregarded the issue we had with the Prozac "because it doesn't have that side effect". Well, for difficult child 1 it DOES. Behaviors got better each time we stopped the medication. That's two different medications from two different classes that caused SEVERE issues (extreme aggression) in MY difficult child 1. I'm not saying it IS a medication issue but I highly suspect it COULD be.

    I also agree with DF in that the physical stuff has to stop. I have reacted the same way a few times, and NOT proud of it, but I always try REALLY hard to keep my frustration and irritation in check. I know this can be VERY hard but I agree, it sends the wrong message to our difficult child's.

    Are you seeing a therapist for yourself? How do YOU deal with your stress? Take care of yourself.