Recommendations?

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
It's hard to even write about this because it's such
clear evidence of how crazy my family is and makesme question myself over and over again...

My abuser is the same way, BITS.

Even when it is happening to me, I can never really believe, down in my heart where I feel so small, so confused sometimes, that anyone would do the things it looks like my own mother is doing. Then, I too begin to question what is wrong with me, to think such terrible things about my mother.

It has taken so long for me to see her, BITS.

To believe it, I mean.

Fantasy, the whole family thing that I have worked so hard to believe in ~ that stuff worked against me, kept me keyed in and trying. Though I know better now, I still get a little shocky, thinking about the things my mother has done. That is the FOG Recovering posts about. Just like it happens when we are overwhelmed with the horror of what is happening to our kids, we go into that same kind of shocky, FOG feeling where our abusers are concerned.

It is a lonely, shaky place to be.

But you CAN take it, BITS. As your husband noted, the letter regarding difficult child's money was sent the day the returned card was received. Your abuser is getting a little desperate, I think. Just as we've learned to expect escalation from our difficult child kids, we can expect our abusers to up the ante, too.

To him, to your abuser, this win means everything.

For him, this has nothing to do with whether your son finishes school living at your house or at his.

That's all we're really talking about, here.

But to your abuser, this is all about who claims the power and who gets the shame.

That is why abusive people fight so viciously.

To them, everything is black and white. Power. Or shame. Like me, poisoned and positioned from birth to be who your abuser needed you to be, you are flying in the dark, right now. It isn't easy Bits, but if we keep our hearts open and try to see with clarity, we can free ourselves from the dirty little prisons our abusive parents taught us was all we deserved.

***************

The rest of this is just personal anecdotes, things I've noticed as I've healed, how the abusive parent affects relationships, that kind of thing.

It is a complex and tender process, to come back from abuse. It takes time, and much thought.

As you heal, as you become stronger, you will see your father for who he is, you will see the dynamic that runs him. And you will wonder how it was that you lived in such fear of that crummy, transparent, hurtful person for so long a time.

I am seeing, as I heal, that there is nothing my abuser does ~ nothing ~ that is not abusive. Whoever she interacts with, she sets up and abuses in the same exact pattern. The lesson here, and there will come a day when you see it too, BITS, is that as it is with every abuser, what my abuser did to me had nothing to do with me.

It was nothing personal.

She would have done to anyone what she did to me.

When I realized this? I saw my abuser's cowardice for the first time. Immediately after, I understood she was a bully. Shortly after that I began to see, not her anger or disappointment at me, at who I was, during the episodes of abuse, but my terrible vulnerability.

A child, at the mercy of someone like that.

Compassion for the self begins to flow, with that realization. I think you have never felt compassion for the child you were, BITS.

It is a very new thing for me, too.

But boy, is it powerful stuff.

Cedar

Just lately, the most helpful thing I have tried is meditation ala Pema Chodron during the sunrise.

And though I know it's technically against the rules to drink coffee while meditating, I do.

I set the timer for 12 to 20 minutes. The meditation consists of recognizing and then, practicing stopping our thoughts, practicing letting them go. She describes it as "putting space" between ourselves and the immediacy of the emotional charge the thought carries. We are to envision the thought, once we realize we are thinking about something, as a shimmering bubble we waft away with a shining white feather.

Then, we take the next inhalation. We breathe out, we breathe in, deeply or normally, eyes open or closed. When the next thought arrives, whether it is good or bad, we again envision brushing the shimmering thing away with the white feather.

That's it.

I love to be doing that as the sun rises. I don't feel bored or trapped or impatient. The whole thing is a beautiful experience. I have come away able to gain perspective, emotional perspective, about the things that happen to me, to us.

For me, this simple practice has brought such joy!

When my time is up, I finish my coffee here.

:O)

Cedar

Oh BITS, sorry this is getting so long. When I first began reinterpreting the things I had learned about who I was in my childhood, I posted the beginning of a story I wrote a long time ago. I will post it again here for you.

*****

Once upon a time, in a faraway land where time and distance had lost all meaning, there were born to the peasantry a generation of female children whose task and whose talent it would be to unravel the tangled skeins of deceit, viciousness, and trickery that bound the hearts, the souls, and the bloodlines of those families into which each was born.

It's an interesting story. At the end, the key to successful reinterpretation of self and subsequent reintegration of the family turned out to be hidden in the shame the abused child was taught was her only identity.
 

Albatross

Well-Known Member
Hi BITS, I just saw your post yesterday that your father had sent you another letter. I'm so sorry your father has such a need to control this situation that he refuses your request for no contact. I think you have been so strong in overcoming these challenges. I hope that you were able to get a bit of sleep last night.

That Stress Forte is GREAT STUFF. I have used that before and it works as well as a prescription sleep aid for me, in fact a little *too* well. Others have said it doesn't work at all for them, so I guess it is an individual response.

I really like a product called "Stress Shield" that you can usually find at health food stores, by Country Life. It is not a sleep aid. It has B vitamins and relaxation herbs like ginger, siberian ginseng, passion flower, etc. with ashwagandha. I take it in the morning and it seems to help me feel more chillin' all day. For me, ashwagandha has a very nice balance of energizing yet making things seem like not such a big deal.
 

BackintheSaddle

Active Member
Thanks so much, Cedar...it always helps to read your replies...I've been thinking a lot about my childhood today and trying to trace all the abuse over the years...I have been working through this for many years, my whole adult life really because my father is an alcoholic who has never really quit, only a dry drunk now..I was the oldest and as I grew, at dinner time especially, he'd be abusive to my mother or siblings (I have a younger sister and brother)...I was always the one who stood up to him, literally and told him to back off...he didn't hit but the words he said hurt worse...my parents have never had a happy marriage but have stayed together for 54 years...I can't remember a time in my adulthood when I was going through challenges when they actually helped me out without some string attached...my first husband died of cancer when I was 27...the helped during his sickness but were saying awful things about his family, or whatever, when I was in a horrible place...I went back to school then and never asked for a dime from my father-- because if you ever get money from him, he will use it to control you...I went back to school because I never wanted to be in the position of having to ask him for money since it seemed as though I'd be alone the rest of my life...I had my difficult child as a single mom and I don't want to make you read all the sabotaging they did at that time...I needed their help just to maintain my job and support my child (the father was out of the picture) so my mother would keep difficult child for me while I worked but boy, she used that to manipulate me to no end...I couldn't wait to finish school so I could get new job and have a fresh start, without having to count on them...when difficult child was almost 2, that happened and I left the area but had met my husband by then and we kept going strong even with distance so 2 years later, I came back...it wasn't too long after that that difficult child started demonstrating problems and my parents were meddling every step of the way...the first time difficult child was hospitalized in 4th grade, they were cooperative because he had attacked a little girl and they could at least see that wasn't 'normal' but they had no clue what else we were dealing with at home...one time I was out of town and difficult child called them and told them my husband was abusing him...they almost called DSS but came and talked to me when I got back...they believed difficult child and have always believed him to a fault...I had difficult child come tell them to their face what the truth was and then explained to him what can happen if he accuses someone of that without truth and he's never done at least that again...but when he got into 6th grade, he deteriorated again and was worsening quite a bit and quickly so he was hospitalized again...that's when my father first disowned me...difficult child was diagnosed as bipolar and my father thought I was wrong to get him treatment all of a sudden, he literally demanded that I stop getting him therapy and medications...I had him go talk to both difficult child's therapist and psychiatrist in hopes he could get his questions answered but he only became more convinced there was nothing wrong with difficult child, it was just a phase, and that by my getting him treatment, I was ruining him for life and putting a label on him that would follow him the rest of his life...I didn't listen to him of course which only made things escalate (he couldn't control me-- never could, has said I'm the only child that ever gave them so much trouble like that)...I was at home with difficult child after he was released from psychiatric hospital and extremely vulnerable and sick...my parents came to my house and stood on my porch telling me so that difficult child could hear what an awful mother I was being and that if I didn't start doing things their way, they were going to disown me...I said fine, go right ahead...and the same thing as now happened for 3 years...that time there were emails and I was trying to reason with him and explain what he wasn't seeing...I was convinced that if I just educated him on all the challenges, he'd come around and not want to cut off us AND HIS GRANDSON!...he didn't see my difficult child for 3 years...I remember clear as day that as difficult child was recovering but after this confrontation, I took him to the beach for week to refresh-- just the 2 of us...we went for a walk and he asked me why they were doing this to their own daughter...and he asked then if I'd ever do it to him...that broke my heart and I told him them and repeated it many times that I never would do that...but now he uses that against me to say that I'm disowning him just like they did me because I won't pay his bills...

sorry for my rambling but I saw this from Cedar-- Your abuser is getting a little desperate, I think. Just as we've learned to expect escalation from our difficult child kids, we can expect our abusers to up the ante, too.


Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/recommendations.56698/page-2#ixzz2xPShypeH

that's exactly what I was thinking today and husband is worried about...father will get that letter returned on Monday so what will he do next?...you see, he controls every other person in my family...my sister is 47, married with 3 nearly grown kids-- does not work and her husband lost his job more than a year ago...my father not only bought them a house outright 5 years ago (when I still wasn't in communication with anyone) that they have since charged against the credit to buy things (and father has no clue of this)...and in he meantime, for more than a year, he's been giving them at least $2000/month to cover them...so since all this happened, my sister and I aren't talking either because she's at risk for losing her monthly check if she does-- she'd rather get money from our father than get a job (no, she's not working)...my brother is a pothead and my parents have no clue about that...his life is a mess but they hold him up as their success story because at least they're not paying for his mortgage-- but they pay for his medical bills AND he's 42 and still has their credit card that he uses to buy clothes and things he 'needs'....if my parents knew what their money is really being used for (to pay off debt for my sister on a house they already bought and to pay for drugs), I'm not sure what they'd do, if anything...I've never told them and know they won't believe me anyway...that's part of what drives husband crazy-- to him, I'm their one success story since I work hard, put myself through school, and have never had their support...but to my father, I'm the child he has the least control over and yes, he is desperate to seize that...it's hard not to worry about what that could mean is coming next...he won't give up, obviously...and I think he'd stoop to most anything to get at me...

with all my thinking, I always come back to what you were saying, Cedar...how can my own parents be so cruel?...they are really both abusers and while I knew that before all this, I don't think I've ever really accepted just how much of abusers they are and how long this has been going on-- and I've allowed myself to be victim for many many years...I'm done with being their victim...except they do hold my most precious 'card'...my difficult child and working their black magic on him...since he's not unlike my father and also loves money, he's falling right into where they want him...and all I can do is stand back and watch...this is agonizingly painful to watch and admit that I'm the offspring of people who are like them...

I started a new project today!! wallpapering our guest bathroom!...I find I can't just sit and think without circling into that black hole above so having a project makes me feel like I accomplished something at the end of the day and gives me something else to focus on!....hope you all had a great Saturday!
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
BITS, I have gallery today. I want to take time with your response, so I will answer tomorrow when I have that time I want to take to really hear you. You are good and strong, BITS. I know a little bit about how hard this part of breaking free is...but it is a breaking free, BITS.

It is a new thing you are creating here BITS, a new way to be, a new way to see, not just your parents, but everything.

At the end of it?

There is a kind of freedom undreamed.

Recovering was a little ahead of me BITS, and she held strong for me. Now, we are both stronger, and we will be there for you as you break free, too.

:O)

Cedar

I love this site.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
he didn't hit but the words he said hurt worse

That is part of why verbal abuse works, BITS. They can seem so reasonable, so correct, so much better than we are or, by the time they get done with us, believe we could ever be. That is the "win" for them. If you are less, then they are more.

And if you are not less, if you begin showing signs of health or healing, of recovery? The verbal abuser will redouble his attacks.

The most terrible thing is that the abuse has nothing to do with you, personally. Though it will change everything about who you are, about who you believe yourself to be...the abuser does not truly see you, does not understand what he or she is doing. It's like they go unconscious or something, or like they are trapped in some personal Hell of their own and are blinded to the harm they are doing.

Most probably, when it is a female being abused, even if the abuser is herself a female, legitimacy for these feelings has to do, too, with the unconscious, virulently vicious mysogyny rampant throughout the world.

When they have been made to feel small or uncertain by other events in their lives, the abusive person recovers their sense of self through "dumping" those feelings onto their target of choice. The abuse never had anything to do with you. Though it was targeted to destroy you BITS, it was nothing about you that called it.

The sickness was there in your father, already.

You are meant to survive it. What is happening now is the way your family will heal, BITS. It will hurt, but you will play your part in that healing beautifully.

Have you read Patricia Evans Verbal Abuse Survivors Speak Out or The Verbally Abusive Relationship?

Self Esteem by McKay/Fanning?

The following are excerpts from Verbal Abuse Survivors Speak Out.

"Verbal abuse has nothing to do with you or your daughters in particular. If you or an older daughter were magically replaced by somebody different, he would still have his problem of being verbally abusive to a wife and oldest daughter. Being abusive to the oldest daughter is a common pattern. Another is that the son is "king" and all the daughters are nothing. A variation is that the son can never do anything right and is "picked on" constantly while the daughters are ignored or favored. Whatever the configuration, however, the problem begins with the abuser."

"There is nothing you can do and no way you can be to get him to change."

except they do hold my most precious 'card'...my difficult child

You are your most precious card, BITS. Your difficult child pushed boundaries to the point of assault. Had you not stood up to him then, difficult child's behaviors would have escalated.

It is hard to remember that, I know.

But it was your difficult child's behavior that created this situation. You did not do this BITS, and you did not cause it. Your father did not cause it, either.

difficult child created this situation. He created this situation between you and himself...and he created the situation that now exists between you and your father too, BITS.

It seems to me that the angrier you and your father are at one another, your difficult child comes out smelling more and more like a rose. Our difficult child's are famous for triangulating, for pitting one family member against the other so the difficult child gets what he wants while everyone is taking aim at each other to protect the difficult child.

You are correct BITS, in expecting your son to abide by the rules you set in your home. You are correct in setting unbreachable boundaries around difficult child's physically abusive behavior.

You are in the right here, BITS.

Especially given that the father has the kinds of personal problems that result in abusive behaviors, your father may be doing the best he knows.
The problem might turn out to be that those old, abusive behaviors just don't work the way they used to ~ not anymore, not now that you've seen the dynamic behind verbally abusive behavior and can no longer be dominated or controlled by it.

If you can do it BITS, let go of the anger you feel. It is the situation that is bad, not you, not your father, not even the difficult child. If you strip away the hurt of it BITS, then you will be able to see how to move through the situation in a purposeful way.

Yes, your father has problems and this is exacerbating an already explosive situation. But the person who created the situation was difficult child. The person who continues to exploit the situation, and is getting everything he wants from it, is difficult child.

I'm sorry this is happening, BITS. It is the situation that is bad. It would be best if you could decide, coldly decide, to survive, to choose pleasure and hope and great joy in your life. There will be times of sadness BITS, but let them be sadness at the hardness, at the unfairness, of the situation.

Something has to change now, BITS.

As you face and choose to stand strong in the face of your father's escalating verbally abusive behaviors BITS...you are going to have to see your difficult child more clearly, too.

No one, not even and maybe especially, not difficult child, gets to abuse you, BITS.

No one.

Look at it this way: What would you do about it if someone purposely set out to destroy the spirit of one of your horses? Would you forgive or understand or empathize with any of the abuser's behaviors? Would you allow him to start striking the horse, if it began to show spirit or resentment against its own destruction?

Would you tolerate such behavior for even an instant, BITS?

No!

You need to learn to love, cherish, and protect yourself as you love, cherish, and protect your horses, BITS.

Even from difficult child.

he's falling right into where they want him...and all I can do is stand back
and watch...this is agonizingly painful

No, there are ten thousand things you could do, BITS. You could pay for everything, promise difficult child a new car if he comes home, tell him he can abuse you night and day. Tell him you were so wrong to expect him to be the man you raised him to be, and that he can lay around all day if he wants to. You could begin planning an excellent trip with husband, you could go back to school, you could meet your own father for lunch without anyone else there...and certainly, without difficult child there, mucking up the water.

You have all the power here, BITS.

It is the situation that is bad. Not you, not difficult child, not the father.

It is a really hard situation, and I am so sorry this is happening to you, and to your family.

Best to see it clearly though, BITS.

I had to see differently, too. And it was painful and I was so angry BITS! But it was worth it, so worth it. The feeling of freedom, of self-definition, is unimaginable, BITS. I seek it, now. Seek it on every level.

No one can define you but you, BITS. But we have to see where and how they are hurting us, we have to know the taste and the smell and the feel of it before we can recognize and stop negative influences from childhood.

Your father may always be abusive.

Your difficult child may always be abusive.

Once you are better, BITS? Their illnesses will not color, touch, or sway you.

That is freedom.

it's hard not to worry about what that could mean is coming next..

What is coming next is that you will become stronger, more aware, less susceptible to the usual reward systems, BITS. People would say such things to me over the years of therapy, or even here on the site. I could not even see how the fear was woven into the character of my being, could not even see my abuser's perceptions, wrapped around me so tightly I could not breathe.

I worked really hard to break free of that, BITS. I am still working so hard to come back from it. Initially my motivation was to get healthier so I could help my kids. Now? It is to be who I am.

That is how to help my family be healthier. Not to be perfect, but to be real.

It's really hard.

Cedar
 

BackintheSaddle

Active Member
thanks for taking the time to write, Cedar...I really needed it this morning...had a rough night but taking this morning off to be outside on this beautiful day and try and feel better about myself...you're right, the anger is consuming and I suppose I do need to face that difficult child is in all this drama just as much as difficult child father is...I've got to work on my shield today!...;-)
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
How do you see the shield, BITS? I was always so busy trying to be strong, even in my own heart, where it matters most. It wasn't until I was really strong, until I was strong enough to feel what it felt like to be so accused, to be so stupidly, purposefully misunderstood, that I began to thaw out.

Before you came to us here on the site, Recovering worked through so much of this with me. I posted once about an old Frankenstein movie. Poor Frankenstein had been chased into a cave by the angry, torch-wielding villagers. He froze to death there, BITS. In the way of all Frankensteins though...he wanted to live, wanted to be alive, again. The scene I posted about was one in which, somehow, sun began to shine, little by little by little, into the cave where Frankenstein had chosen to numb and then, to freeze himself solid so no one could hurt him, ever again. So no one could label him, could lie about who he was and what his value was, so no one could justify chasing him ~ so no one could make him believe, in his own secret heart, where it matters, that it was right to chase him, that they were right to want to kill him with their torches and pitchforks and hatred.

The first sign of awakening was a tear.

One tear, sparkling in the sun as it slid down poor, frozen Frankenstein's cheek.

Frankenstein opens his eyes.

And begins to scream, because the horror of what happened to him is too much...but if he wants to live, if he wants to be alive, Frankenstein has to face what they told him about his value, about who he was.

And he has to relearn himself, BITS.

He has to face it, and face it down.

I saw that movie on an old show called "Shock Theater." I was like, six when I watched it. I never forgot that imagery, that tear, that wish for legitimacy and life.

Here is a quote for you, BITS. I may be overstepping every boundary, here. You deserve to be cherished and nurtured and held safe, while you heal. However this turns out, BITS? Know that I wish you every good thing, every kindness, every success, as you work through this.

You did nothing wrong, BITS. It is the situation that is the hard thing. You have behaved with courage and integrity, and that is a harder thing.

But you are doing it.

:O)

So, here is the quote:

"Once my fancy was soothed with dreams of virtue, of fame and of enjoyment. Once I falsely hoped to meet with beings who, pardoning my outward form, would love me for the excellent qualities I was capable of unfolding."

Frankenstein's Monster Speaks
Shelley

The Jesus Incident
Frank Herbert / Bill Ransom

Cedar
 

BackintheSaddle

Active Member
I love that imagery...I know what scene you mean but it has been a long time since I saw it...I've downloaded the book (verbal abuse) you recommended and reading it this afternoon...something happened with difficult child that seems to be pretty telling...I had emailed him about the latest with his grandfather and to ask them to stop torturing me...I had never brought him in the middle before and apologized for it this time but that I really need his help...I also told him that I would always be open to a loving relationship with him but he knew where to find me...that I was going to leave him alone for a time so he can figure things out but for him to know I'd welcome having him back in my life and working things out...he replied to thank me for the email and said he'd like to have a relationship too but won't agree to it until I apologize (same story)...

so I asked him to tell me exactly what I was apologizing for-- I said I mean it sincerely, that I don't know that his emails so far seem to indicate I need to apologize for everything...he didn't reply for awhile and then yesterday I got a reply that said he'd tell me in a few days "sorry for the delay"...I don't know if you remember but emails from him recently have been written by someone else...it was clear to all of us who read it that he was being coached on what to say and it wasn't pretty...so I wrote back and said 'ok, thanks'...then said that if this time is a time when he's not writing the reply by himself, do not expect a response from me...I want to talk to MY SON and hear only from him and have him tell me what's in his heart...if he can't do that, then please don't reply

nothing since....our guess is the old man was writing it for him and now they don't know what to do..I have no doubt something is coming and just hope it's not a bullet from that crazy old man...it's scary here, waiting to see what they're capable of...the 2 of them together, apparently on a mission to destroy me or 'prove' I'm wrong and they're right and all will be well if I apologize for all my wrongness....yeah, right...had a rough night but having a lovely day so taking it hour by hour this week!

Thanks for all your kind and thoughtful replies!! hope RE replies at some point too! you two are very wise!
 

Echolette

Well-Known Member
BITS, when I wake up at night I pull in the meditation tools. I very deliberately change positions to something graceful and soothing. I make myself smile for a moment. And then I focus fully on my breathing for at least 3 full breaths...just knowing that I am breathing. Breathing in I enjoy my in breathe. Breathing out I enjoy my out breathe. If I can continue I do so...it breaks the spiraling fear and chaotic thoughts, and usually I fall back asleep.

Its a bit like counting sheep, only that never worked for me.

Blessings on you. I hope you can find your sleep. It is so precious.

Echo
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
I dont remember all of your questions but I will answer some questions.

My mother was the mother from Mommy Dearest. If she could find a way to abuse me she did and she took great pride in that. Honestly she would have liked nothing more than to see me homeless and helpless. She tried her hardest to make that happen.

For me sleep has been a problem for many years now. I have awful insomnia. I personally take ambien and have for many many years. I did try this stuff Walmart sells that comes in little bottles like those energy shots but they are for sleep. Lately I have been finding myself having some very vivid dreams that are more like nightmares. Most of them have something to do with my difficult child. One major thing is we dont expect my son to live a whole lot longer the way he is going. He looks like a walking skeleton and many have asked me if he has cancer. He does have some serious physical issues and walks bent over like he is an old man. Though interestingly some of my recurring dreams have to do with me shooting him because he breaks into our house.

As far as doing things for me, well I dont do a whole lot because I have so many disabilities myself. I do like to eBay but that can be a bad thing...lol. When I was going through an enormous amount of stress after we found out my son was a junkie, along with him stealing from us and some other various issues....I spent way too much money on Fisher Price toys from my childhood. I was convinced my grandchildren would love them as much as I did back at their ages. Ha! That was a fiasco because they werent battery operated and didnt have screens.

I also love to read and crochet.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I spent way too much money on Fisher Price toys from my childhood.

I love that you did that. When I first began therapy and made that decision to heal, I found myself wanting to wear only cotton. Simple, very clean clothing. Jeans, cotton shirts.

It had something to do with comfort and growth. Something to do with giving myself permission to feel safe and comfortable enough to grow.

I wonder whether those toys served that same purpose for you, Janet?

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
hope it's not a bullet from that crazy old man...it's scary here, waiting to
see what they're capable of...

This is true. It is scary. Every time I even considered criticizing my abuser in any way, it took more courage than I had. But somehow (and here comes another Cedar quote):

"The lifeforce from God overcame the deathforce of my shame, and I lived."

That is from someone named Smedes. His book: Shame and Grace. He is well worth reading for those of us determined to recover, to reclaim and redefine ourselves.

Now, where was I going with this? Oh, yes. But somehow BITS, I did it. Little by little, I grew into myself. And then, though my abuser continues to abuse...the fear of it, the shame of it, that feeling like death of it ~ that is what I remember, but that is not what is happening to me in my interactions with her, now. It's like she can still hurt me, can still cause me to question myself, though the inappropriate actions were hers.

But she can no longer kill me.

I lived.

*****

When you receive whatever it is they next present BITS...we will be there with you, too. Not right there in the minute, but in your sense of strength, and in your true understanding that everyone here on the site will help take it apart and put it back together again in a way that makes sense, and that cannot hurt you.

Soon enough, you will not need us at all, anymore.

Then, I think you will forgive and develop compassion for that little man who your father really is. I hope he recovers himself soon enough to come to know you for the strength and the beauty in you.

Look how you are facing him, now.

That takes real courage.

And it is scary.

I like that you asked your son what he meant. That is the only question we should ask our abusers: "What do you mean."

The answers turn out to be so much less hurtful than the toxic things we tell ourselves about what they meant.

And so often, the abuser means nothing. They sort of go unconscious, and all they want to do is win. If you or anyone else are destroyed in that process, I think they don't see it.

I would be scared too, BITS! Its kind of like we're at a slumber party, right? Waiting for the spooky movie, listening for the sound of that man with the hook scratching at the window.

EEEEEEEEEE!

:O)

Cedar
 

BackintheSaddle

Active Member
Thanks Cedar, for the thoughts...you are a wise woman...so, we got the 'next thing' today...my mother, who has been staying out of this so far (in terms of interacting with us, I know she's been DEEP in pushing for the drama and hurt) called my husband today and left him a voice mail...it said 'you two are a piece of work--- sending back a birthday card' and then hung up....doesn't that sound crazy? he sent it back more than a week ago and we know they got it last Tuesday...and she's calling now? he said he could tell she had a speech planned for him but when she got VM, didn't know what to say...so not only did she call, she thought he'd answer a call from her???....haven't heard anything from difficult child and don't think we will for a while, if ever (I'm trying my best to focus on that as a one day at a time thing-- too much to think it's forever)...what do you do with people like this who are abusers, won't leave you alone even when you tell them to, and continue to be hateful?...
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
you two are a piece of work--- sending back a birthday card' and then
hung up.

My mom just hung up on me too, BITS. She had called. husband picked up. (Which he wasn't supposed to do. I am right up there with everyone else in the "just let me be a chicken in private" department.) As husband had picked up, I took the call. My mother was all set to deliver her fateful message that my sister was in the hospital for some tests. In my family of origin, even medical bulletins and surgeries are prime grist for the power over mill. My mother was calling against her will because calling was the correct thing to do where she is staying, now. She was not calling to let me know, but to be able to say she had. I got that. In defiance, I got her talking about all kinds of other things too, and we hung up cordially. Then? husband told me she had been rude to him. He felt pretty badly about it, actually.

It is hard to be prepared for what abusive family members will do. Especially for our DHs, who don't have a clue about toxicity. Anyway, I called my mother back, asked whether she thought she'd been rude...and she hung up on me too, BITS.

SLAM.

She must have been on the house phone.

:O)

First though, she snarled that she was not going to play this game with me. Or that she did not have time for this. Or something equally really mean. So, I posted about it, here. One of us noted that I HAD CONFRONTED THE DRAGON (my mother) AND IT HAD RUN AWAY.

And it occurred to me that is exactly what she did.

My mother ran away.

So did yours.

Hanging up is a cut and run, slash and get out tactic.

**************

he sent it back more than a week ago and we know they got it last Tuesday...and she's calling now? he said he could tell she had a speech planned for him but when she got VM, didn't know what to say

Oh, how frustrated she must have been!

There is nothing more you need to do with this. Your mother does not know whether you listened, does not know whether you felt badly if you did listen.

That is her punishment for being such a poop. She gets no satisfaction. Power over always feeds on hurting the other person, on making them feel small. If they cannot hurt you, they will exclude you. If you show no remorse, the behaviors will escalate because at some point, the abuser himself will be overwhelmed with the feelings he cannot discharge onto you.

what do you do with people like this who are abusers

I think you posted that you were reading about verbal abuse, about the payoff for the abuser, about how to recover from it, BITS. That is the only thing I know to do when we are engaging with a verbally abusive person. husband too has a tendency toward verbal abuse. I was raised to feel that bad things were who I really was. This is what my abuser taught me. That feeling, those toxicities from when we were too little to think them through, are the groundrock of that feeling of "fraudulence". They are the setting for feelings of not enough, of shame, not at what we've done, but at who we are. Given that my husband WAS verbally abusive, I felt he knew the truth about me that, somehow, I was managing to hide from anyone who thought well of me. It took many years for me to see that abuse has nothing to do with anyone but the abuser.

An abuser abuses because, male or female, they are an abuser.

There is nothing personal in the abuse.

This becomes crystal clear when you say: "What do you mean?"

That would be my only response to your mother's nasty "you two are a piece of work." What does she mean? Does she mean she is angry but too arrogant to put her anger into words? Or does it mean she is blaming you for her anger, though you have done nothing but return a card ~ which you have every right to do? Or does it mean that she is enraged because, in returning that card...you changed the dynamic.

What she said could have all kinds of meanings. What it probably does not mean is that you are "a piece of work."

Whatever ~ other than nasty, toxic associations from childhood ~ that means.

Mostly, it means you have been abused, long distance.

Which hurts alot less.

All of which goes to say BITS, that you need to learn all you can about the verbally abusive relationship, and about the effects of verbally abusive patterns of interaction on children, and on adult children.

My mother can still cut me to the quick with a look.

It happens in the flash of an eye, and no one is the wiser.

I have to do alot of reworking my time with her. I do that. I thank heaven for this site. It is important to have a witness, important to have someone who can reinterpret the pain and toxicity.

The other thing I can tell you BITS is that it is a path you walk. It isn't going to happen in one day. It is a path, an intention to be free of the hurt of it. Sort of like detaching from the hurtful things our difficult children do.

It is scary, to confront our abusers.

But every time we do it BITS, we become stronger, more centered, healthier. Also, I think it is vitally important not to buy into the game. Search out and talk down any feelings of hatred, any lust of vengeance. THAT IS THE WAY THIS WHOLE THING STARTED. Who knows how many generations back this pattern developed in your family, or mine? There is a better way to do it, BITS. There really are families who communicate openly, calmly, with joy.

That is what we're shooting for, here.

husband told me last night that the sense of vulnerability I feel in relation to my family is comprised of two things:

1) I need to forgive myself because I was not able to help them change, or to change anything for myself. I never did create that lovely family I wanted ~ in fact, everything pretty much sucks in the family department.

2) I need to reinterpret all the times I was verbally or physically abused and believed it. For you BITS, that would include "piece of work."

What DOES that mean?

If you can get to the root and pull it out, that will never be a vulnerability for you, again.

We do have to be strong, BITS. But not in the sick way our family taught us to do it.

I know I sound like a goofball, but there is power in choosing love.

Just pick it. I don't know what it means when I say that half the time, either. But it sets an intention, a guideline for us.

Posting will help so much, BITS. We need input from those not wounded in the same way. Together, we can all be stronger. Maybe, we can even be strong enough.

Cedar
 
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