remember my neighbor with the dogs?

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by rejectedmom, Oct 26, 2007.

  1. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Well evidently they got ahold of the neighbor's (on the other side) cat and killed it. There are no witnessess to the actual act and the owners of the dogs are covering it up although have aparently admitted to disposing of the cat. The cat's owner said that they have given her three different stories as to the cat's condition when found. Police cannot do anything and animal control needs more concrete evidence. I still feed those dogs treats fromt time to time because I am so afraid of them. I have slacked off on it lately but I guess I will step it up a bit again. The one dog still lunges at me over the top of the fence and the owners although they saw it come after me and said that maybe they need a higher fence have never done anything about raising it up. Unfortunately the neighbor's whose cat was killed was doing everything right. She installed a 6 foot fence to protect her children and she kept her cats indoors. Her three year old let it out accidently. -RM
  2. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Be the Alpha Female. Actually a coke can, filled with pebbles and taped up with duct tape ......shaken and dropped at the fence with the stern NO would help your situation of jumping Jack. But you have to MEAN your NO.
  3. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Ranger, Thanks for the advice but the damn thing is deaf LOL
  4. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I just is not right. These people must just not care about others. Just their dogs. Do they have kids?
  5. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Not convinced giving them snacks is the right answer. It just means they're going to get used to the idea you come out and have snacks for them. No snacks, more lunges. Not enough snacks, more lunges.

    It seems like animal control could force the owners to do something about them lunging. I'd both tape and video the action, especially if the fence shakes at all when they do it.
  6. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Busywend, yes they have a two year old. They do not seem to be afraid for him.

    Meowbunny, I do not own a video camera. But could probably rent one. The thing is I do not want to get close enough to the fence to provoke the behavior. My ears mean alot to me LOL.
  7. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    RM, do you have a cell phone with a camera? They usually do video. Maybe difficult child's has one.

    Unfortunately, in our state, the animal has to kill another animal twice before they will do something, and you have to prove it has killed twice. Why would someone bury someone else's dead cat if they had nothing to do with it?
  8. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Yes here it is three instances of attack. I do not have a video phone nor does anyone else in the family. We are just not techy types. difficult child has no phone at all. Imagine that! LOL

    As far as why anyone would dispose of a dead cat I really don't know. I'm not sure how I would handle a dead cat in my yard or driveway. I always like to give people the benifit of the doubt but the meighbor in question was acting a bit weird when I last spoke to him and the dogs have not been in the yard since monday when the cat was killed. It does look like they are hiding something but without witnesses nothing can be done anyway. The one little dog is noisy but harmless. She got out shortly after they moved in and I actually found her and carried her back home. Even so she still barks and growls at me. The two big dogs on the other hand are VERY scary. I would not approach either of them ever. I just throw the treats over the fence and talk to them soothingly. This has allowed me to walk around in my yard without them harrassing me constantly but if I go near the fence they get aggressive. My gardens on that side of the yard have gone to weeds and died because I couldn't work them.
    Getting rid of the dogs doesn't seem to be an option for these people. I do understand to a degree we had a beloved pet mini dachund that was hit by a car when he was just under a year old. (same situation as the cat owner my difficult child then age 4 let him out and he ran right for the road). He had survivable injuries and we spent over two thousand putting him back together. Unfortunately his temperment changed after that and he became unpredictable to anyone outside of the family. He bit a friend who was a vet tech and even though I begged her to file a report she didn't. She said it was no big deal and she took an antibiotic and begged me not to put the dog down. The second bite a friend of my easy child 2 let him out the door and went to grab him amd got his hand bit I again told them to report it and said that I was going to have him put down. The kids parents called me and begged me not to said that their son was very upset and was having a hard time dealing with my dog being put down. I went ahead and made the appointment anyway but had to wait a week. That week was horrendous for me. I was bombarded by friends and family not to euthanize. I got calls both from the victim and his parents begging me not to go through with it. I was so stressed out. I prayed long and hard and then the thought came to me that maybe I could have the vet remove his teeth. I called and was told that they did that often in cases such as mine and that they only removed the canines on the little dogs because they were the ones that punctured when they bit. I was told that my dog would still be able to eat fine and that often the agressive behavior stopped after the procedure. I was also told that if he didn't stop nipping that the most damage he could make was a blood blister or a bad pinch. (euthaniasia = $60 teth removal = $700) So I had his canine teeth removed and paid for the person's medical. We got a few more years out of him and then my first grandbaby came along. As soon as the baby began to toddle the dog went after him for no reason. husband stoppped him before he bit but that was the last straw and husband upped (he was the bigges obstical in the previous incidents as it was his dog and a gift from me) and took him to be put down.

    I am hoping that the owners of these dogs come to terms with the fact that they are not city type dogs and make arrangements for them to either live elsewhere or put them down. It would be the responsible thing to do. -RM
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Want me to ask Jamie for advice?
  10. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Sure Janet that would be great!
  11. SaraT

    SaraT New Member

    Having 3 big dogs I know they can be scary to others. I would not give them treats as that is telling them "good boy" for barking at you. Instead I would show no fear, as dogs pick up on this, and tell them NO in a stern but calm voice. Then simply ignore them and go about your business. (Easier said then done I know.)

    It sounds like these big dogs are trying to be dominant, or possibly just bored. If they are not being exercized then boredum could be a reason for their behavior. If you ignore them you take away their dominance. It has worked for me in the past, and it has broken several Rottweillers from thinking they were in charge.

    I hope you can take back you yard.
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hi, I'm late to this discussion. I have been on both sides of the fence, literally!
    I have some suggestions for both you and your neighbors.

    We have always had big dogs. One in particular, our border collie mix, can be aggressive. Ironically, she's the smallest. She was abused, and taken to the SPCA, where I found her and adopted her. She is "owner protective." She also loves to chase things, like bikes and motorcycles, which can scare people. I walk her and keep her on a leash, and we have a nice fenced-in yard where she can play. When the kids leave the door open, she gets out and I always have heart failure.
    We usually put her in the kennel in the kitchen when kids come over because she does nip. She has gone through obedience twice--16 wks--and early on, I put her on anti-anxiety medications, which basically slowed her down so I could train her.
    The other dog is a collie and he's very big, a tri-color, (black) and makes him seem bigger. He and the border collie can bark up a storm, and at one point, we had four dogs.

    The next-door neighbors complained on many occasions, but it was hit-and-miss. I never knew when they'd be home and never knew exactly what my dogs were barking about until very deep into the situation, because they'd always stop barking when I walked out, and I was very confused.
    It turned out that one of the neighbors went to bed several hrs earlier than we did and one of my dogs, a collie, would bark next to his bedroom window.
    They don't have a garden right next to the fence, but do cut the grass with-a riding mower, which made the dogs crazy. Anyone coming near the fence will make the dogs feel protective, which is normal, so I asked the neighbors to tell me when they were going to be outside so I could put my dogs inside, and they were so angry at that point they refused to come up with-a schedule or cooperate.
    If you can come up with-a gardening schedule and get the neighbors to keep their dogs indoors, say, for 3 hrs on a Sat., a.m., that would be a good solution.The other thing would be for your neighbors to train their dogs, with-your help. They would have to put them on leash, keep them on their side of the fence, and have you pretend to garden or bring in groceries, and then they jerk the leash and say, "NO BARK!"

    by the way, I used to have Borzoi, which are huge dogs. They are a beautiful breed but they hunt and kill. They killed birds of every color, squirrels, a possum, you name it. They kill easily because they DO NOT BARK while they run, and they can reach speeds of 35 mph.
    We had Invisible Fencing at our former house, and the neighbor's King Charles Spaniel came into our yard (I had warned the neighbors repeatedly) and one of the Borzoi nearly killed it. (Shook it like a rag.) I pd half the vet bill, even though it was in our yard and it was their fault.
    My vet suggested that I place bells around the dogs' collars so that when they make that last min. leap, it will warn the prey and give it a chance to get away. GREAT idea! You should suggest that to your neighbors.
    The Borzoi got out once and killed the neighbor's cat. It was old and deaf and didn't hear the bells. I found them on the neighbor's front lawn and it was gross and scary and OMG, that neighbor was so distraught and angry. Can't blame him. After a few days whe he calmed down, I brought him flowers and a gift card to purchase another cat from the SPCA.

    So, is there a way you could speak to your neighbors again? You should be able to garden. I wish my neighbors hadn't waited until they were spitting tacks b4 they called me and left nasty msgs on my machine, and called the SPCA, too, because our relationship was ruined and we could have worked something out.

    Now I just time it so my dogs are only out from 7 min.-15 min., at a time, and it's a shame that I am a prisoner to THEIR needs when I have 4 acres of land!
  13. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Holy cannoli!

    Another reason that I prefer cats. Indoor cats. Not chew toys for pitbulls or Mastiffs.
  14. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    What kind of dogs are they?

    Our neighbor's dogs are outside a lot and they charge the fence, barking and jumping (they could easily clear the fence if they had the mind to do so) if we go outside. To someone not used to big dogs, it would seem intimidating. If one of my cats got outside and got over their fence, I feel pretty confident they would go after it. However, to people and other dogs they are harmless. They just look and sound threatening. They're bored. They bark like that at anything that moves.

    I agree with the poster who said to stop throwing treats and to just ignore them. My neighbor's dogs used to go crazy when I let my dog out, but my dog ignores them. Now they just sit right up against the fence watching her, but they no longer bark.

    If you really can't do anything on that side of your yard because of them and talking to the neighbor hasn't helped, contact your community police officer. We have an officer who only deals with these kinds of issues. They probably won't be required to get rid of the dogs or anything, but will have to be more conscious of how their dogs behavior affects their neighbors, Know what I mean??
  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Here you get one warning and then fines if your dog is barking a lot or threatening. We also have an animal control officer who handles these things. Call the police for the city and the county until you reach the animal control officer. They CAN and WILL talk to the other people. They do ask you to talk to the dog owner first, but since it sounds like you can't get them to be responsible, you have done this. You may have to be persistent with animal control, but it is their job.


  16. Stella Johnson

    Stella Johnson Active Member

    Where we live if your dogs are barking after 10pm you can get a ticket from the city. I have seen the police at my neighbors house multiple times.

  17. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I'm with those who say to not reward them.

    mother in law's next door neighbour has a dog that barks aggressively right beside her fence at the slightest provocation. She can't go out her side door (to the bins, to the laundry, to her washing line) without this dog slavering like a mastiff. The fence is in poor repair (probably not helped by the dog) and she's been concerned for some time as to what would happen to her if the dog broke into her place.
    The previous owner (before she bought the place) use to feed biscuits to this dog through a gap in the fence. The day we went to look at the property this bloke showed us how he would do this to shut the dog up. It didn't work then and mother in law flatly refused to do it anyway. Then the dog's owner introduced herself to mother in law and commented about the previous owners making her dog fat.

    The dog next to mother in law's is bored and neurotic. The owners only ever respond to it when it barks, so if course it barks. At all other times, the dog is totally ignored. Poor thing.

    But mother in law - any noise she makes in her kitchen, this thing starts up. If she shuts a cupboard or drawer and the pots, pans or forks rattle, the dog goes off. Watering her garden - the dog goes off. Any tradesmen (and she's had a few of them lately) are very nervous of this dog and have warned her to keep safe.

    mother in law has been reluctant to make a formal complaint because her neighbour, the dog's owner, is a bully. mother in law has been handling it by being stern with the dog. "Quiet, Saffy." Sometimes that's enough - it seems to do more than anything the owner does. mother in law's other really good trick that works brilliantly, in conjunction with her saying, "Quiet" to the dog - she keeps a small jug of water on the kitchen windowsill. If/when the dog barks at her while she's outside, mother in law throws the jug of water on the dog while saying, "Quiet."

    There are two possible paths you could take which would be even more effective than the water -
    1) Citronella spray. You can either have it in a spray bottle while you get that patch of garden back into shape - if they bark and throw themselves at the fence, spray the citronella through the fence. Dogs hate it. It's got a lemony scent, it's not too bad. You can actually buy dog collars which will release a puff of citronella into the dog's face when it barks, they're triggered by the sound of the bark. Buy one of those and tape it to your side of the fence where the dogs normally go. This works even on deaf dogs.

    2) An ultrasonic 'screamer'. You can also get these in a collar, also triggered by either the barking, or a remote control. If you can only get a collar, place it on your side of the fence again, at the place they most commonly go to. The screamer emits an ultrasonic tone, too high for human ears, but which will distract a dog. Or punish it. If you're technically handy, you could make one and increase the volume to REALLY punish the dogs, although that's really not something to actually do, just dram about it when you're feeling particularly ill-disposed to the dogs.

    And something I don't recommend but I've known it to be done - using an ultrasonic device to erratically annoy the neighbour's dog so much that it TRIGGERS the dog to bark when it's quiet, until OTHER neighbours complain, the owner gets fed up with 2 am barking, and they get rid of the dog themselves. This was done by my ratbag friend from a few streets away - he was quite malevolent in his zeal to disturb the dog - he would set it off at 2 am, listen for the neighbours to wake and yell at the dog, wait half an hour (enough time for them to have just got back to sleep) then set the dog off again. He did this not every night, but maybe two or three times a week, just enough for the dog's owners to never know if tonight would be a bad night or not. Eventually sleep deprivation takes its toll and they get rid of the dog. At least, it worked for him. And as he has no conscience, he can live with himself. A total ratbag, but one with no noisy dogs nearby any more.

  18. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I talked to Jamie and he said that at least in VA that unless the dogs get out or are on chains you will need to get with your neighbors to complain.

    The dogs do have to have food and water every 24 hours. Food every 24 and water every 12, and it cant be dumped over. It has to be available to them. If on chains, the chains have to be at least 3 times the dogs length.

    Now if its just in the yard barking or in a kennel barking, you will have to get neighbors to go in with you to keep calling animal control and complain. Enough times of this and the people may be told to keep their dogs in.
    You may have stronger laws because of the cold or something else.
  19. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    I do not reward them for barking. They do not know when I am going to give them treats and I only do it when they are quietly minding their own business. They recognize the container and they let me approach the fence (although not right up to it)without barking at me. It has worked in that they used to bark all the time and I could not even go into my yard without being assaulted by their barking. I have talked to the neighbors and they would keep them in for about a week or so and then go away for the weekend and leave them out for three days. They would bark constantly for 16 hours or more. Complaints were made by other neighbors etc. I finally got them to put an anti-bark collar on the little one who was the biggest culprit but that only lasted a short while and they took it off her. She is now back to her yapping at every little thing but NOT so much at me. So I do think the treats have worked in some respects and it was suggested by a dog trainer that I do this and I cleared it with the owners. Like I said the dogs do not get treats if they are barking but they still have not learned that I am allowed by my fence to work. God forbid I touch the fence then the lunging and snapping etc and yes they could easily jump it since it is only bouts 40" high. If the neighbors are home and we need to work in our yard and the dogs are barking we do ask them to attend to them and they usually do but if they are not home the dogs are unbearable if we go near our fence or our garage which is right next to the fence. If we need to do repairs or matainence on our garage or the fence we cannot do it unless the neighbors are home and do take the animals inside.

    When these people moved in they told me that the dogs were rescue animals and that the deaf one would bit and that the other big dog would never hurt a human but would kill other animals. I felt like asking "so what are you doing bringing them into a townhouse situation where they are surrounded by people and other pets and noises and kids?"

    Around here the Police will not respond regularly to barking dog complaints it is a hit or miss thing depending on how busy they are and the dog has to be barking constantly for over an hour. IF IT STOPS EVEN FOR JUST FIVE MINUTES THE TIME COUNT STARTS OVER. The aggressive behavior is a matter for animal control which as I said cannot do anything in this situation with the killed pet because there were no eye witnesses. So I guess it is a matter of innocent people who are responsible pet owners being terrorized by inappropriate aggressive pets of others who are left in the lurch by laws designed to protect them but ending up protecting the perpetrators instead.

    One other point I would like to make and please let me clarify that I am NOT saying that owners of agressive pets who install invisable fences aren't TRYING to act responsibly, it is my opinion that if you have agressive animals, an invisible fence is not the way to go because while it might keep your animals on your property it does not prevent a kid from retrieving a ball or a neighbor's pet from inadvertently wandering into the zone. Agressive animals should at the very least have physical barriers around them that BOTH keep them in and others out.

    Also if they are aggressive toward other people and their pets and you know they will do harm given the opportunity then you need to rethink living in densly populated areas. In addition be aware that you can be sued in civil court for all kinds of things such as emotional distress and loss of use of property etc. that can cost you lots of bucks in legal fees and penalties. I know this because I have considered bringing a legal case against my neighbors and have consulted an attorney. At the moment we are still thinking about it. -RM
  20. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    My dogs bark at any strange people. They will bark if UPS, or mailman go to a neighbors door. They do not bark if it is the neighbors themself.

    I see that my younger dog doesn't bark until the older dog does. She is always watching.

    In my neighborhood, I know this happened. The dogs were kept in the yard all day while they were at work. They barked. The owners got a warning. Then a ticket for disturbing the peace.

    Hope you can work things out.