Remember Those Behavior Goals I Was Supposed to Write...?

Marguerite

Active Member
I have perhaps an even more effective scenario for idiot caseworker. Describe a scenario where difficult child is seeing her for a session. Outside in the waiting room is another, younger child waiting to see caseworker. Something happens as difficult child leaves; she physically attacks the younger child. What does caseworker suggest happens here? or what if the child being attacked is caseworker's own child? Or family member? How would she feel about the behaviour chart's implementation then?

The problem here, is that "no man is an island". No difficult child, either. This is someone who HAS to learn that physical attack is a serious matter, actionable by law. An entire family, an entire social group, is affected he. You cannot just try to deal with one facet of it, and then say it's now all OK.

The trouble is, you have to "play willing" to a certain extent, make it clear you are bending over backwards here in trying to meet the caseworker. But as soon as the caseworker began to have a problem with the non-violence at any times clause, it shows she has lost perspective. Sorry. No go. Nobody should ask anyone to allow violence one day out of 7. Not even one day out of 365. Or 3560 days.

BUT - you can define what violence is, what is totally unacceptable. What is generally unacceptable in the long term but can be worked on for now.

In other words - physical violence is Basket A. Never, ever. But violence, non-physical, can be Basket B.


Many years ago in my amateur dramatics days, I read a marvellous book called "The Art of Coarse Acting". It was a comedy book, but also had some brilliant wisdom in it. In this book it warned about the sort of director who wants you to do something dangerous; who is asking you to do something you do not feel is a good idea. The author suggested the actor play dub; ask the director, "I'm sorry, Joe, I don't understand exactly how you want me to ride the blow from the broken bottle when Fred shoves it into my face. Could you please demonstrate it for me so I can see how you want it done?"

I would really push the scenario angle with this woman, including the CPS angle. You have to keep your family safe. Allowing any violence, even rewarding "only one day out of 7 of beating up your brother - good girl!" would have your family torn apart by CPS.

Rightly so.

Ask idiot therapist what she advises you tell CPS when the school calls them in to investigate the bruises and injuries on your other child - a child who already is suffering from a serious health problem and who should be cared for, not allowed to be used as a punching bag (one day out of 7, so it's somehow okay?).

Marg
 

graceupongrace

New Member
DF,

So sorry you're still dealing with this koi. I gave up on behavior charts when difficult child was, oh, about 7 or 8. Mine were cute, clever, and designed to appeal to everything difficult child loved and wanted. They didn't work. Ever. Not for even one week. So to take this approach to deal with physical violence, all I can say is, "Really?! It's that simple?! Really?!"

Sheesh!!!!
 

busywend

Well-Known Member
Seriously? I would be tempted to contact her again in a few days and see if she has changed her thinking on this one. I would say, I thought I would give you a couple days to let it sink in that you are asking me to find it acceptable for my daughter to abuse my son once a week. Is that the policy of said agency? So, parents that abuse their children once a week are OK to do so and nothing happens to them? Unless of course they do it twice in that week. Oh how does it work with that one week period. Does it go Sunday to Saturday? If there is abuse on Saturday and then again on Sunday - does that count as the next week??

I mean come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

rlsnights

New Member
All I can tell you is that the juvenile justice system here takes throwing things at family members very seriously. My difficult child 2 was charged with felony assault for throwing a water bottle at me. That charge is probably going to get dismissed but it was a serious shock to his/our system that he was charged with a serious felony that would normally have resulted in out of home placement/juvie except for his documented mental health issues.

And...it was what it took for us to get the wrap-around services our family really needs and may lead to residential treatment placement if the wrap-around therapists decide that's what is needed.

However, our county is very progressive in dealing with juvenile offenders and have several diversion programs including this one that are seriously attempting to change things for a lot of the kids they see.

I agree completely that any level of violence is not OK and that abusing her sibling is still domestic violence. If it was an adult doing that stuff to a kid - they'd be reported and charged in most places. Again, here they do not even give people a choice about pressing charges in domestic violence cases. The county DA always takes the case to court and seeks maximum response apparently.

So, bottom line for me - call the police. Do not hesitate. Even if they don't have these kinds of resources you may be surprised what a judge can force another agency to do when/if they decide to do it.

Oh and I would absolutely document that conversation in an e-mail or letter to that caseworker and her supervisor, cc anyone you think appropriate. CYA.

Patricia
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
All I can tell you is that the juvenile justice system here takes throwing things at family members very seriously. My difficult child 2 was charged with felony assault for throwing a water bottle at me. That charge is probably going to get dismissed but it was a serious shock to his/our system that he was charged with a serious felony that would normally have resulted in out of home placement/juvie except for his documented mental health issues.

...And where I live? One of the officers that responded to the domestic violence last April told husband, "they just about have to murder someone to go to juvie"... She got a 2nd-degree misdemeanor DV charge.

As for pressing charges? Many areas won't do it automatically if it is a juvenile; the victim must actually press charges.
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
This whole thing is just so far beyond the ridiculous...

I do not think any amount of "reason" can bring it back.

I also think this whole thing is largely out of my control. Caseworker and her supervisors continue to have meetings and make decisions without our input at all. Caseworker's job just seems to be to "fill in the form"...and not actually apply common sense. There is probably not a box on the form for a goal to be met "7 out of 7 days"...and "6 out of 7 days" is probably the highest option available for her to "check".

And now...we are supposed to wait the two or three weeks it is going to take to file all of the paperwork in order to get a "Behavioral Specialist" out to the house. The caseworker wanted to know whether we had any sort of preference as to the type of person our caseworker should be.... Did we prefer to work with someone older? Younger? Male? Female?

I told her to just find somebody smart.
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
...And where I live? One of the officers that responded to the domestic violence last April told husband, "they just about have to murder someone to go to juvie"... She got a 2nd-degree misdemeanor DV charge.

As for pressing charges? Many areas won't do it automatically if it is a juvenile; the victim must actually press charges.

In this area? The victim needs to have visible injuries...

AND the victim must press charges...

AND in order to avoid having the juvenile offender just released back to the family, the family has to petition for Department of Juvenile Justice to hold them.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I almost think you should have asked for someone with common sense instead.

Ummm...
First, common sense isn't all that common, so might be tough to find.
Second, in my humble opinion common sense is even less common among the professionals we deal with day-to-day.

Someone with experience dealing with similar cases might help... sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Unless YOU get to do the interviewing (and that's not likely), its really hard to get the "right" person. But they do exist, and we have landed an exceptional one now and again.
 

shellyd67

Active Member
busywend hit the head on the nail. I will not beat my kids for 6 out of 7 days and they whip the cr*p out of them on the 7th day... Really ? DF big big hugs ((((( ))))))
 
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AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
...I will not beat the snot out of difficult child 6 out of 7 times she makes me want to? (That 7th time would be CPS, and we all know it.)
 

klmno

Active Member
Just a reminder- I still feel your pain. I spoke with difficult child's PO the other day (whom I have to keep in contact with even though difficult child is in Department of Juvenile Justice). He told me months ago that he'd look into a group home/halfway house for difficult child to go to upon his release. The other day when I said something about my determination this time to stick to the idea that psychiatrist had said a few years ago, that difficult child and I needed to work out problems before he came home since he had become violent with me and pulled a knife on me, PO says "oh, yes, we can do that- he can come home and I'll order an intensive in-home therapist to come to your home a few evenings a week." I said "OH- you mean for a behavior contract?" He said "well, yes". I laughed and yelled he!! NO.First time I was willing to give that a chance we got the MST guy who wanted a contract where I'd fix the food difficult child wanted more often for dinner and difficult child wouldn't break the law anymore. After difficult child first threatened me with a knife, that PO ordered in-home therapy and difficult child had pulled the knife on me before it even started. These people really don't get it at all. They think the issue is a kid not minding well due to a parent not using consistent punishment and that it can all be negotiated. I am sure this PO has even read any of difficult child's file- shoot, every time we talk I have to tell him why difficult child is in there. He doesn't have a clue about the full hx and for some reason thinks he can determine appropriate parole requirements without finding out.

Keep in mind, they normally hire the least experienced people for these jobs because they can get them for less money and they are ususally people just starting out in a field. It also means that most are young, no kids of their own over the age of 5, and still relating "good parenting" concepts to what they think their parent should have done differently when they were growing up. because all they can relate to is still being a teen at home.
 

susiestar

Roll With It
hey, ladies, don't think that behavior charts don't work!! They do -- the one the therapist at the first children's hospital we went to made up really AWESOME behavior charts! They were on a thick cardstock and had really cool colors and fancy stickers and a list of really great rewards!!

After the paper airplanes kept hitting me in the face and landing my my coffee I had to finally give up on the wonderful behavior chart.

I DID get almost an hour of peace and quiet out of them though!!! And the stickers looked REALLY COOL the way Wiz used them to decorate the planes!!!

The therapist was NOT. HAPPY. when he heard this. He had the stones to ask me why I didn't take them away from him, why I 'let' him make paper airplanes out of them.

My reply was that the therapist and Wiz had made a CONTRACT that Wiz would do these things on the chart and would get a sticker for each one AND (most idiotic of all) that Wiz was in charge of the chart. he had to follow the rules but Mom and Dad were NOT NOT NOT to touch those charts, to remind him to do what was on the chart, or to put the sticker on ourselved. We were told to aact like it didn't exist until he had gotten enough stickers to get the reward and then to lavish him with praise and rewards.

The guy just sat there for a couple of minutes stammering that we didn't understand what he meant when he said we would keep our hands off the chart and Wiz was in charge of it. Then I tok his file, opened it to the page wehre he wrote down that we couldn't touch the chart, etc... - in his own handwriting! It was sort of interesting to see the way it blew the guys mind!

DF - PLEASE go to google, the library or amazon and look for books on sibling abuse. It really has a HUGE impact that can last forever. There are some great books on the subject but I cannot remember the author. If nothing else you will have it to take to meetings as you discuss how much violence is acceptable to CPS and how much isn't - is it okay to only abuse him on Wed morning between 4 and 9??

I am sorry this isn't taken seriously - in my opinion sibling abuse is truly heinous because it is children turning on others. I am still struggling with it with my bro though Wiz and I hav emoved past that motherly anger that I felt when he hurt the others.
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
Thank you for all the suggestions...there are some great ideas here...

Unfortunately, I have come to the realization that no suggestion in the world is going to change the direction the state/county is headed.

The situation is akin to walking into a McDonald's and trying to order a steak. The cashier does not have a button on her register that says "steak" - so she doesn't have the slightest idea what to do. I can speak with the shift supervisor or the restaurant manager or even the regional manager - and even though some of them will undoutably understand what I am asking for - they will not be able to serve it to me. An attempt may even be made to create something that looks like a steak....but it will still be the same ol burger that everyone else is getting.

And that's kind of what husband and I are preparing ourselves for: some "expert" is going to walk into our house with this great new plan...and because he will have been cautioned by the caseworker and her supervisor - he's not going to actually use the phrase "behavior chart"....but that's exactly what he is going to present us, nonetheless.

I think that if you are stuck in the world of Medicaid and state/county providers...that's all there is...

Because folks on Medicaid are obviously lazy or stupid and therefore undeserving of any real assistance.

Take your burger and go.

Next!
 

klmno

Active Member
I hate to say it but I believe you are EXACTLY correct. That's all that's available here anyway for a kid- in Department of Juvenile Justice especially. Be careful- that could be the next people involved if you push the idea too much that this approach thru MH will never work. For some reason, many people working for state agencies and sds- most actually- can't grasp the concept that a kid can have MH issues- they see it all as behavioral until the kid is older than 18-21. Then they just blame tthe parent for not getting it addressed when the kid was younger.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
Ummm.... I don't know of any way to do this, but it almost sounds like you need a caseworker for your son. In which case, the two kids would be on equal footing, and the two caseworkers could fight it out instead... Would be an interesting sight, don't you think?

<sigh>
 
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