Right? Wrong?

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Hopeful97, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    Hi all,

    I haven't posted for quite a while. In September it will be 1 year since our youngest son was made to leave. As some of you know a restraining order, one of the hardest things I have ever had to do (hearing the baliff say "Hopeful versus d c" was excruciating. I couldn't do it for 1 year which apparently is the norm where I live so I asked the judge if I could do it for 6 months.

    Anyway, there has been a lot of chaos, for lack of a better term, off aND on since then. There has been weeks with no contact, then more contact just very sporadic. I generally don't say much when we see d c or talk to d c I did at first but anything I say seems to be wrong or sets him off. D c has done a lot of horrible stuff, won't get into it now, but yes before he was made to leave and still after he was made to leave. The difference now is that most of the horrible stuff is not concerning us just him and his sometimes scary, deplorable decisions. There really is no chaos when he is not around. A year ago I could've never imagined myself being able to talk about this, much less saying things the way I am saying them and not crying.......I think I have come a long way....not patting myself on the back but reminding myself not to go back and that the part of my journey that concerns d c doesn't have to be my chaos but his.

    I have not spoken to my d c for a while. My sister had been letting come to her house now and then to eat, shower, nap, sleep, wash clothes, but never to live there. We would everyone in a while take him food and eventually let him come by not come in. He would be invited to family functions sometimes would come sometimes not. Anyway you get the jist do it. Around the 4th we had decided to invite d c over for dinner one evening, it went better than expected. He then came by to shower one day and get food and hang out for a few minutes a couple days later. While he was in the house 3 times for very short while he was never alone except the bathroom. We had taken anything of value that could be easily taken into other interior rooms. We still have pad locks on all interior rooms except the bathroom, back room leading outside; kitchen/living room open area, and d c s old bedroom and everything was locked tight. I had to go somewhere and hubby was with d c. Hubby had to go to bathroom and shortly d c left. D c had told us, my older son and my sister that he was unable to find a place to go.....again me, hubby and sis told him where he could go for help. I for what seems like the thousandth time told him about a place where we live he can go til he is 21 (will be 19 in September) and he will have place to sleep, shower and eat. They would help him get a GED and/or job training, then they help you get a job and once that is going well they help you find an apartment and will help you learn about paying bills. If you have more problems they have the resources to point you in the right direction and help. D c doesn't want to do that. It has been explained to him it is not like the residential living he had to go to for a while when he was much younger and living at home. That he would be expected to keep his room clean and would be assigned chores and there is a curfew. They don't tell you when to go to bed etc., doors are locked for safety of all. Me, hubby, older son, sis think that he just doesn't want to follow anyone's rules except his and yes that includes rules that are laws.

    D c broke into sisters home. We know it was him because he had to leave because they were leaving. It was raining and they asked him if he wanted a ride anywhere he said no which never happens. If nothing else he would want a ride to a different area. Police report was filed, police already looking for him (who knows what for.......not that I don't care, it just hurts to much to know, try to find out or hear his lies.....I figure if I need to know, even if I don't, I will most likely find out anyway . After all this we discovered the keys missing to our truck. We replayed everything and figured out that they were laying on the cabinet in dining room when he was here as I told you. So we knew he would be coming back.

    Meanwhile, sis sent message to d c telling him we know it was him (otherwise sister's house would have been tossed and nothing was touched except money, pocket knife and deactivated cell phone). The message basically after we helped you as much as we could you betray us and do this. Told him that she still loved him very much, cared what happens to him and always would. Told him he was always in her prayers and he would always be our family, but asked him not to contact her, his uncle, or any of their 5 children unless it was an apology. To date no word sadly not surprising.

    After we discovered keys missing, I went to police and talked to them. Unfortunately, as soon as I said d c s name the officer knew him which would normally would not surprise me because I think most officers around here know him. This was a new officer and he already knew who I was talking about. Huge clue that police are looking for him for a lot more than he told us.

    So we then figured d c would try to do something so we stayed up late made the house look like we were sleeping. Oh yeah, get this, earlier that night hubby on back deck sees car coming down street with lights off slowly stops d c gets out and stays out of line of vision. D c s girlfriend or whatever still lights out pulls up to stop sign just past our house and sees older son getting out of his car.....she puts it in reverse stops where hubby thought d c was and d c gets in they go whizzing by. My hubby was like is he really that bold, dumb or however you want to say it......I'm like yes.

    So older son goes home. House looks like hubby and I are in bed. We wait a while, hubby goes out looks in truck, sure enough d c sleeping. He doesn't see hubby, he comes in we call police. Police come get d c out search him, his backpack and truck. Put him in police car and come to our door. We turn lights on get our keys back, are asked do we want to press charges, we say no we just do not want him to come back. D c has tried calling we have not answered he does not leave message. He tries to contact me via messenger I don't respond and delete messenger. He leaves messages via facebook, I don't read or respond. When you check messages on Facebook you can read the first few words without opening the message......beginning of last message to me says he is going to block me. No biggie. He is trying to get a response of some kind.

    He did come by 2 days after police were here, I stayed inside, hubby went out.....I watched to make sure it didn't get violent. Hubby not worried about that, given d c s sometimes uncontrolled rage, anger, untreated mental illnesses and I am sure addiction or addictions you never know.......maybe it's because I was home with him all the time and hubby was working therefore I saw and experienced a lot more of the rage, etc firsthand. And, as seems true in a lot of cases, the rage, anger, blame always seems to mostly fall to the mom (why is that?). Hubby asked d c about breaking into sis house of course he did not do it...D c thinks police were looking for him that's how he got caught in our truck he told hubby he knows we didn't call because we were asleep.......better that way for all concerned. D c talked to hubby long time hubby told d c it would be best if he didn't come around until after he talked with his aunt.....and left it open ended.....good thing unfortunately hard learned (don't give times, datws, limits, etc...leave everything open ended so d c can't come back and blame there will be no excuse etc.....it will all be on him, he may not think so).

    Still haven't talked to d c, he came walking down the street this evening, older son had stopped by for a second d c walks to his truck asks for a ride older son says can't on my way to a job. Hubby standing on front porch, I go outside d c is gone......I asked hubby did he say anything hubby says no just nodded at me......older son says same after their short conversation d c nods head and was away. Older son let's us know d c is up the street with about 6 others.

    At first I was very angry at these 2 most recent thefts but now am just deeply, deeply saddened and hurt.....once again my heart breaks. I feel guilty for not responding to d c s messages, here's why. There have been several times when d c gets really out of sorts sometimes suicidal. Some of it is due to untreated mental illnesses (he has gotten psychiatric help when he still lived at home so he know it works and he knows it makes him better and helps him tremendously).....so he has said mom sometimes I just need to talk......... I have mental illnesses and have since my late teens so I know what that type of darkness is like......I told my d c that when he needed to talk and he had no one and was like this I would always talk to him. So at this point I am rwally
  2. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    I saved before I was finished.......anyway I am really really upset, confused, at a total loss. I don't know if he is really in that darkness, just needs to talk or what. I would feel horrible not able to live with myself if he was suicidal and I did not talk to him and if he died oh wow can't go there and if he just needed to talk like sometimes I would feel a little bad.

    I am not feeling "nothing", I am kinda sad, confused, exhausted.......has the callous growing over my heart grown so hard that I no longer care.....am I in self protection mode.......am I a horrible person for not responding.....am I indifferent.....am I callous.....? I just don't know. Should I respond, if so what do I say, do I just find out if he needs to talk and of so ok, if not if it is defending hi self regarding the 2 recent family thefts just cut it off and risk a bunch of b s.....well if I keep it on private ,essay via facebook I would just stop responding via phone just hang up......I just don't know.....Do I no longer have feelings, have I grown cold...

    I appreciate all of you listening..reading...responding with thought, comments.....Thank yoy for caring. Sorry I was all over the place and this is really long, I hope it makes sense.
    Hugs to All of you
  3. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    Sorry all, again I goofed in the first post I ran a big paragraph together I hope you can make sense of it.....wow a lot more anxiety than I thought. Thanks
  4. so ready to live

    so ready to live Active Member

    Hi Hopeful. My heart goes out to you. I cried reading this and I read every word. It is forever amazing to me how many of our stories are similar. Biting the hand that feeds them, in every respect they just don't quit.

    I so get your fear of not being there when he needs to talk but ultimately they need to find that in others. For us and for them. You are so not calloused, are you? I'm not sure we are ever totally calloused, but exhausted YES.... and you do sound to be that. Try to look at your life from the outside, hiding your keys and money, following him in the house, not even able to go to the bathroom for a minute. It is crazy. At one point with our son, I realized I couldn't find anything due to moving it so many times so he couldn't find it. My purse was full of keys and medications and $, we changed the locks twice. We installed a security system. My heart ramped up (still does) whenever a loud vehicle goes by. When we misplace anything, we wonder if he took it. We have hidden in our beds, pretending to be asleep at midnight, when once again he came crawling home, drunk/drugged and thinking he could stay. Am I a mom who can't step up when her child needs her? YES. For a million reasons. The biggest is he is not a child anymore.
    ...and so we go on with OUR lives. Any contact with him still throws me for a few days, disrupts my sleep, makes me irritable and jumpy. Many times if he sees we are even cordial to him, it starts the onslaught of begging. We spend a few days not answering phone or texts for food, gas, whatever. So much of it is lies, how do you ever really know? I want to answer--"go to work and function or go to rehab". But it would just start a fight. So, we don't ask any questions we don't already know the answer to, including "how are you?" Mostly if he talks, we say "Oh?" and "I'm sure you'll figure it out" .

    I do think for us, in our faith, we believe in helping anyone in our son's position and it seems inconsistent to walk away from his needs. We have had to realize that it is NOT helping in his case. We prolonged the agony for years. Don't be us. Focus on you, your faith, your mental health, your marriage, your functioning son. Your son is young, there is still much hope. He has to want it himself. Prayers.
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet


    So sorry to hear you are in pain. We are in pain too.

    I think So Ready gave you great advice. I can understand your fear if he is suicidal and the worry that you won't be there for him but sometimes they use that as a way to manipulate also.

    Are you going to therapy, NA or anything else to help you cope? That's all we as parents can really do once we decide we can't do it anymore. I don't think you are cold or uncaring. It's obvious you love your son VERY MUCH.

    I have felt cold myself the past week. I haven't talked to my son - he isn't saying anything I want to hear - for over a week and it makes ME feel so much better not to talk to him. I feel like my insides are already shredded.

    My son is also young and unfortunately it seems like a curse. They are too immature to understand it all and the drug use or mental illness makes them even slower to develop. Why is the frontal lobe the last to develop when it's the part of the brain that is needed the most?

    Like everyone says HE/THEY need to suffer enough/be in enough pain to want to change their lives. We can't do it for them. It is very hard to watch.

    Hugs and you are not alone.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    There are suicide hotlines (tons) and ER and anyone suicidal can get hrlp. They are trained to help suicidal people; we are not. It is better in my opinion he learn to uttilize outside sources with the proper training.

    Often when they talk suicide to us it us a manipulation to get us to soften and do them a favor. But they wont be able to pull that with professionals.

    You can quit using at any age. Young in my opinion is better. My daughter used from 12 to 19 then quit at a young age. They are not too young to know it is dangerous. They are well aware. They just dont care about themselves as much as we care about them and we cant make them.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
  7. Childofmine

    Childofmine trying to do this thing one day at a time Staff Member

    Hopeful, I read every word of your posts too. I am so sorry for your fear, your grief and your pain, and I was right where you are with Difficult Child when he was in the worst grip of his addiction to drugs and alcohol. He cut himself, he was stabbed (by his girlfriend or himself, who ever would know?), etc, etc. He threatened suicide over and over again. That stopped when I started calling the police every single time he did.

    I think we get PTSD from all of this, and we become incapacitated ourselves. We can't help someone when we have no resources and are shaken with grief, exhaustion and anxiety ourselves.

    I would suggest that you need a little time away from him completely to get back to level ground. You need space and rest and peace. You can't help him when you are without any kind of resources yourself.

    In time, perhaps, if you choose, you can be back in contact with him with layers of protection for yourself.

    I understand he is making really bad choices right now, and you can't stop that. We just can't make them stop or fix what is wrong, as much as we love them and want to. If they will not get help, we can't force them to. I so so so wish we could.

    And I learned that whatever I do or don't do isn't not going to be the cause of my son committing suicide or taking one more drug or drinking one more pint of vodka or whatever it is. I truly don't have that much power over him.

    I came to see myself as just one thin spoke on his wheel. He had a lot of spokes that he worked. I was just one of them. Seeing that image helped me because I used to think I was his entire wheel. I was way overblowing my role in his life. Take yourself off the hook here. It's not about you.

    We are here for you. We know how incredibly hard this is. This is the hardest thing---living like this---we will ever do in our lives, I believe.

    Hang in there. Hugs.
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  8. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    Hopeful, it is good to "see" you here again. I have thought about you and your son and wondered how you are doing. I am sorry to hear about all of the drama and trauma you have been through. I read every word of your posts. Such a terrible time you have been through, to be on such constant vigilance, to be in "protect" mode all the time, when letting up for even a minute results in chaos. What a toll it takes, Hopeful. There is just no other way to put it, he is making flat-out terrible choices.

    No, Sweetie, you have not grown callous. Your heart is not hard. You are not indifferent, or a terrible person. None of those things are true, NOT ONE of them, NOT FOR A SECOND. Hopeful, your posts are full of heartache. You obviously care very, very much. Self-protection mode is not a bad thing. It is freakin' necessary sometimes, and now is definitely one of those times. We all have limits on how much we can and should take. I am sorry that he has burned every bridge, like our d.c.'s do. I know it is easier said than done (because I can't do it either), but please don't let his terrible choices cause you to question yourself. My heart goes out to you today, Hopeful.
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    Oops, saved too soon and couldn't add this quote to my last post. COM, this image really resonated with me and helps me too. Thank you so much for sharing this.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  10. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    HOPEFUL! I am so glad to see you posting, but sad for your need to. Just a quick one as I have to get going......
    TOTALLY, totally agree. Hopeful, you have health issues, you have to take care of YOU. Seems from your post that son is still playing the game and ramping it up at the same time. Really? Ripping off his aunty who has kindly helped him? NO, no, no. Unacceptable.
    Please Hopeful take care of you and your husband. You have been through so much, the both of you.
    Hugs to you dear warrior sister!
  11. mof

    mof Momdidntsignupforthis

    So much pain....and we aren't the sick ones. Hardest thing to choose our emotions, as no one can for.us.

    When my son gets irritated with me I tell him he has no right, and I stop. I tell him until he has a child in this he never will know how he kills me. He usually backs away and Apologizes....He has love in him, but the disease also eats at them.

    I agree...the brain to develop takes too long, and the disease delays this.

    Hate how we suffer ...hugs too all of you!
  12. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet


    I felt like you this weekend with my dealings (or lack of) with my son. I posted about it in my thread.

    Part of me feels dead inside. I can't figure out what is going on with my emotions but maybe my brain is taking over to protect me.

    I told my husband that I think I have detached now. Or come a long way with it. He said he hoped so but he doubted it.