Running off

Malika

Well-Known Member
I think walkie-talkies are a GREAT idea. I wonder if I can get them here? Wil start investigating... That really seems to me a very good compromise - J can occasionally go off in the village by himself but in circumstances that feel right to me. Thanks for the suggestion!
 

Malika

Well-Known Member
They do - of course? - exist in France (they are called "talkie walkies" in French!) and I have just put a bid on a pair of children's walkie talkies, range up to 3 km, on ebay. Only question is whether they would work okay in the village, where you can't get mobile phone signal in lots of places, for example. Or do they work on a different principle??
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
Not sure of your landscape... walkie-talkies don't work well in extreme landscapes... deep valleys, that sort of thing. As long as there is "air" between the two sets, they work well. Smaller hills and houses and such are fine.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
My boys started playing in the fields and the woods out of my sight from about the time Cory was age 5 and then Jamie would have been 7. Billy didnt go out most of the time but would sometimes. He tended to be my inside bookworm. But Jamie and Cory would run wild in the fields and woods riding bikes, building forts, climbing trees and doing everything little boys could do out in the country. Every moment they could be outside, that is where they were. They couldnt stand being in the house. They knew not to go into the road and they knew not to go to the river. Pretty much everything else was fair game. We did have a small pond out behind one of the houses we rented and they used to fish in it. They had a blast. I could open the door in the morning and tell them to come home when the got hungry. I never had to worry much. They would find some friend to hang around with. Those were great days.
 

whatamess

New Member
Janet, reading your post gave me heart palpitations...river, pond, road...small children........aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
...And that right there is the problem.

If you live out in the country, or even somewhat, this isn't an issue.

But in the city?! OMG. Too many things can happen.

And you know, more things happen these days, than did when we were kids. It's not JUST the media reporting.
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I have been reading this thread with interest. There is a book that is currently raising some controversy comparing French and American child rearing. It is titled, Bringing up Bebe: One American Mother Discovers the Wisdom of French Parenting.

I was reading an article written about the book and the author made some interesting points:

The secret sprung from a very different mindset about raising children. The objective wasn't disciplining them but educating them. French parents established early on that they were not the children's servants and that no meant no.

The last point is most interesting, because American parents seem quite able to say no. The problem is they don't do it with conviction. They shout, 'No, no, no, no!' rather than saying no once at a normal volume but like they mean it.

French children learn early on that they are not the center of the universe. They must adjust to family mealtime schedules. Meanwhile, the parents feel entitled to adult time, during which the children are expected to play quietly — and do.

I'm amazed to call friends who, when their children demand attention, put me on hold, not them. One mother lets her teenage offspring interrupt phone conversations. (I try to stifle my contempt.)

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2012/02/15/french-know-how-to-raise-kids.html

I think it is clear that American parents raise children differently than many Europeans do. Whether it is better or worse is up for debate. However, the French style of parenting does remind me of how previous generations of American children were raised before the "self-esteem" movement became popular.

As far as this thread, I think the teacher's actions should be taken in context of the French mindset of parenting. I don't think she would be considered out of line by most French people. I know that if I told my mother that I had been yelled at for being 15 minutes late to school, my mother's question would not have been why did the teacher yell but rather why were you late?

~Kathy
 

whatamess

New Member
The part about the teacher admonishing J for being late is one thing, but to bring Malika into it and basically judging her parenting approach in front of the child is out of line.
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Arrrgh! That would drive me nuts!
Obviously, you can't let him ride or run on ahead any more.
Until he's oh, 21 or so.
I agree with-the others ... it never occurred to him that he was to stay with-you. Something caught his eye and that was the end of that.
 

buddy

New Member
The part about the teacher admonishing J for being late is one thing, but to bring Malika into it and basically judging her parenting approach in front of the child is out of line.

That is what I felt too. I think it is ok to say he can't be late etc... but to say he can be naughty with his mom but not with her is out of line.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
That is what I felt too. I think it is ok to say he can't be late etc... but to say he can be naughty with his mom but not with her is out of line.
....... by North American standards, yes.
But this is France - a whole alternate universe.
 

Ktllc

New Member
Ok, just to add to the debate about the teacher's comment: I would most definitly say some like that to my child. "if Dad (or whoever) let's you do that, fine. But don't you think you'll do it with me". In my (French) mind, it basically means I don't care whatever rule others use, mine is what it is and you will respect it".
Those sorts of comments are actually pretty typical in FFrance: I have heard it MANY times as a kid.
I realy think that there is a BIG cultural gap between Malika's ways and the village's ways. Add to that a non-typical child, aand you've got you hands full.
I would say, for me, the cultural gap is easier because I'm French in the US (not the other way around). A lot of things husband finds acceptable, I don't. If he is in charge at that point, I try to bite my tongue. But if I am in charge, the kids will go by my rules. I don't know if it is making any sense for you guys...
Which method is better or worse will be for debate for many years to come yet!
But just to be honest, I do have adapt my "french" expectations with V. If I had my ways all the time, I say things once and it happens or else big consequence. With V, I have to patiently repeat things over and over, but he is still expected to follow through with my help. He will do his chores, but with my constant reminders. On the other hand, Partner is expected to do them promptly, the right way and with no fuss. :)
If it makes it any easier Malika, remember that J is raised the French way by the whole village. What shocks you might not be all that shocking for him. Just like it is not shocking for me.
 

buddy

New Member
I can see that Ktllc, a big difference though (again, to me in my USA thinking, LOL) is that if you say that to your child about your hubby it is still YOUR child. Would you say that to MY child?

(by the way, this is not a comment on which is better in my mind, just my preference and how I would feel when raising a child who already has some challenges at home...My father's side is French and I still remember the sound of grandma saying our prayers in French... We were raised ok, I think!)
 

Malika

Well-Known Member
I think there are several things here. First is that human nature really is human nature, and overrides culture at least to some extent. This particular teacher is known for being ferocious, severe and not very open minded and there are quite a few people in the village who refuse to send their children to the village school because of her. I find her really uphill work because she is REALLY not open to hearing or understanding that J has special needs, in a sense - she just thinks I am a neurotic worrier and that the basic problem is that I am not authoritative enough and also that I am a single parent. Of course she is not the only one to think that... And that is what I feel the heart of the problem is. The fact that J is hyperactive and that almost NO ONE has any understanding of that. There are cultural differences between me and the villagers - don't know how big they are. I speak fluent French, know France well, have good (if superficial) relationships with everyone I interact with here: I think if I had a neurotypical child, the issue of cultural difference would simply not be an issue... The problem is that the stuff like J's tantrums, his difficultness, his great spiritedness, just looks to everybody like a badly brought up child who needs the strong influence of a father. And because there is very little popular knowledge about things like ADHD, if I mention it, people just look very wary and sceptical.
It really is quite difficult being treated like I am ridiculous by the teacher because I say that J has ADHD. But if and when I have a concrete diagnosis from a psychiatrist, she will have to listen to it and take it seriously. Just to be fair to the teacher, though, she is a really devoted woman in terms of actual teaching and has really high standards for the children which actually I think is probably good for J. She spends a lot of time with him making sure that he is at the same level as the others. He is in any case disadvantaged being born in December and the youngest in the class (classes are by year of birth here).
 

susiestar

Roll With It
No teacher would say that twice to my child if I knew about it, largely because I probably would have called her out of class right then and told her she could scold him for being late but in NO WAY was she EVER going to compare herself to me and cut me down to my child like that. Would she like it if I went into class and told the students how awful and ineffective she was? She might argue, but I don't tolerate this and the one teacher who tried it when Wiz was in 1st grade learned the hard way to back off and apologize or she was going to have a terrible struggle on her hands because I simply would NOT tolerate it. As none of the other kids' parents had the fit I did, and this teacher OFTEN told kids how their parents were too lax or nice or let them get away with things, I don't think it is cultural as much as a matter of respect. I don't CARE if the teacher likes me, but I WILL be respected as the child's parent. Period. If a teacher does't like it, they are FREE to quit or ask to have my child moved to another class with a teacher who will not purposely tell children their parents are lazy slobs who don't deserve their respect (the child's respect - the teacher used those words exactly and often to the children).

I remember hearing the parents of a friend talk about the struggles they had. This was about 1978 or so and their son who was a bit younger than I was was the first kid I knew hwo had adhd. He was a real shock to any teacher. It was a little known disorder and he still is the most hyper adhd child I have ever known - far more than most kids who are diagnosis'd with adhd. They struggled and he was in trouble a lot and he hated school even after he got medications, mostly because back then NO ONE believed he couldn't control it. It was really tough for his parents, and a lot of teachers tried the "your parents may let you xyz but it won't work here" and that NEVER worked with him because mostly he was UNABLE to do what they wanted.

so I think I have some sympathy with what you are experiencing. It was far easier when Wiz was diagnosis'd because it is well known here and he wasn't the first child with adhd his teachers had experienced. He was the first hyperlexic child (he was reading shortly after he turned 3 and by kdg - age 5 - he was reading chapter books with 100-200 pages in a day or so) and they expected him to behave like a child who could read at that level when he just was not that mature, was not even as mature as his age level except in reading and use of language. It was a struggle to educate them because the teachers did not believe they NEEDED to learn about this or him.

I am sorry it is so difficult, and I don't know if this woman is a good thing for J to experience. But if it isn't harming him, then it will help him grow. Maybe. I guess.

I just know I would have gone off on her if I heard that nonsense and she would have regretted it because if she gave me anything but a sincere apology I would have gone to HER boss and HIS boss and the school board about how inappropriate it is to criticize a parent to a child, and she works for ME, not the other way around and she better keep her opinion of me far away from my child. Of course I did have a leg up in that a number of the school board members were relatives (great uncles) who were NOT happy and felt it was terribly disrespectful for a teacher to criticize a parent in front of their child. That is just a no-no, just as parents are not supposed to tell kids that we think their teachers are idiots.

I DO think walkie talkies are a good idea, though you may need to put a strap on one for J to wear around his neck or to attach to a belt or belt loop. He also has to be sure it has fresh batteries when he leaves, or else he has to come home as soon as the batteries die or have a spare set with him in a pocket. They do not work on cell phone technology, but on radio waves, so unless there are deep valleys or steep hills he should be fine. This is as much a physical problem, him being out of reach, as anything, so a physical solution, aka walkie talkies, is as good as anything until he is mature enough to not wander off wehre he shouldn't be.

You must set some rules for the walky talkies though. What happens if he forgets them, or leaves them somewhere? What happens if the batteries die and he doesn't return home immediately for fresh ones? What happens if you call him and he doesn't answer, or he says he is coming home but he gets distracted or decides to do something else instead? You need to work out any potential problems and the penalties BEFORE you let him loose with them. He should be told ONE TIME that he must take the walky talkies and he must always keep them with him and on, and if the battery dies he MUST return home immediately. He is easily old enough to not forget these if told once. If you EXPECT him to remember and act as though he does, then he will. Don't let "I forgot" get him out of whatever the consequence is (not being able to go out of your sight for a week should be enough, in my opinion) and he WILL remember them because he won't watn the consequence. If you keep telling him, or you let "I forgot" or "I didn't know" get him out of the consequence, hten he will continue to not bother to remember the rules and he will continue to not use them appropriately.

Wiz had walkie talkies at one point because he kept wandering off to "play" on an old walking track maintained by the university. The entire town uses it, and it is not a great place for kids at times because the teens have places out there where they do things they hsouldn't. After an older kid beat the koi out of Wiz an dhe had to call Gpa with the walky talky to come get him, he never forgot them again. He could NOT believe that anyone would do that, and I am sure he was mouthy and egged the kid on with nasty words nad also taht he hit back pretty hard, but he still was pretty hurt and upset. This is why we didn't want him playing there - we had been warned by a friend who is a cop taht the teens were doing some really unsafe things there, including hurting each other and animals and younger kids with fireworks. Wiz was supposed to be somewhere else, but went to the track instead and got hurt and did NOT want to call but couldn't get home with-o help and it was getting dark. He got a punishment because he went there after being told not to, he couldn't leave the yard with-o an adult for two weeks. We thought he got off light, and the beating was the worst punishment. He didn't agree, but he was 9 and we didn't really care.
 

Malika

Well-Known Member
I appreciate your feisty response, Susiestar, but here again we are with cultural differences... As an Englishwoman I do not like conflict, making waves, public scenes or being directly "rude" to someone :) Seriously, though, I would actually be capable of telling a teacher in this kind of situation that I am not happy but it really wouldn't be appropriate in this case. Context is all... Tiny village school, only one teacher, everyone knows each other, a context in which (unlike the States) there is much less interaction between school and home and parents expect just to leave school to it. It's like when I discovered that she was hitting J (and another boy) on the head... I couldn't tackle her directly about it. That would have been disastrous! Instead I went to see her and expressed concern that someone was hitting him on the head because he kept flinching and protecting his head when he was scolded; I asked whether there was any possibility someone in the school (there are two assistants) was doing it, looking very bewildered. It was very clear from her body language that she was ill at ease and the one responsible. Since that time, the hitting stopped... If I had gone in all guns blazing, I would have alienated her, not achieved what I wanted and probably made her vindictive towards him for life... Sometimes softlee, softlee, catchee monkey, you know? Not that I am particularly temperamentally suited to that approach, I should add.
And then... people are always much more than just their faults or flaws, if you know what I mean. She isn't just a tyrant and a dragon. I think she is fond of children, deep down, and is certainly dedicated to their learning. And J... likes her. Strange but true. I have quite often thought when we talk about him that she also likes him. So, things are never black and white.
Yes, the walkie talkies. These are totally needed. Last night J again disappeared after I said he could go and ride his bike near us and then I couldn't find him; two teenage boys we know ended up scouring the village for him on their motorbikes... I was really cross when he got back and said he is not going out again until the "talkie walkies" arrive. He screamed, cried and shouted in protest, but this morning accepts it. We will have to have rules about their use, of course, and he will have to respect the rules. I hope the walkie talkies work. The village is on a small hill surrounded by a small valley...
 
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