Scary Incident with difficult child and Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker at the Library

[buddy]

OMGosh WHAT A NIGHT. difficult child was with his Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker at a library. He was sitting across from a girl at the computers. She was using her phone (he desperately wants one) so he starts pretending he has a phone too. Using the same facial expressions and pretending to dial a fake phone. The girl leaves and I guess her dad came to pick her up. She tells him difficult child was harassing her and copying her (now the Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker and librarian saw everything, this was not a case of harassment, but of course the girl may have been uncomfortable and could have said something, that 's fair. But it is not like he was going to attack her or anything.) DAD comes in screamming at the Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker, and difficult child and telling the librarian that if this happens again he is gonna call the cops etc. (what law says you can't imitate someone?) anyway, Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker tries to explain the situation and what they are working on, he says she is doing a lousy job, she tries to hide tears from difficult child. Librarian (I just called her) says that she (Integrated Listening Systems (ILS)) stood up for difficult child well and just calmly tries to explain. She said this guy came in too angry to even listen to anyone and he just didn't care. Q even tried to tell him he has "special needs" and the guy says you are 14 you know fully well what you are doing...blah blah. In the car on the way home difficult child tells Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker that he wishes he would have kicked him and yelled at him. So now Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker is mad at him saying you can't do things like that etc. I explain to Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker that difficult child doesn't like anyone to know when he is scared so gets "tough". She said, I dont think he was scared and just at that moment, he came up the sidewalk (he had been with friends so didn't hear us) he says mom, am I in trouble? I said, no but we will talk about giving people space again, though. And you will need to practice it. And he said, mom...I was SOOO scared. I said, I know. It is ok. Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker had an ahha moment. the librarian said she was scared herself too. She said the guy was a total jerk. Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker apologized too because she didn't realize he was so scared. OK, so Q needs to learn what most kids with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) need to learn, to take another's perspective, we will keep working, but its a scary world out there.

 

[Liahona]

I wonder what the dad's history was. He very much over reacted. I hope difficult child is able to process it and learn from it.

Its a very scary world out there. Glad Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) had the ah-ha moment.

 

[keista]

Well, if the Dad came into the library yelling, the librarian should have called the cops on HIM. He's and ADULT, he should know better! Oh, look how that worked out!

Poor difficult child. Dumb girl.

 

[buddy]

Now Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker said they should take a break from that library for a while (I think she is scared too) and mine says for a full year. But truth is he wants to go and it is his favorite library. He usually goes to three or four a week. We have many around us. Librarian said to for sure have him come back and now that she knows the situation she will let the other librarians know and they will all help him. there are some really good folks out there.

 

[Hound dog]

Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker needs to learn if you fall off the horse you get back on. I'd still have her keep to his routine, it will reinforce to difficult child that he was NOT in the wrong. Because he's probably thinking he was (yes still to some degree) because an adult went off like that and not getting social interactions.......the guy just being a jerk with his own issues will probably not fully register.

And I'd call the same librarian back and discuss calling the police should something like that happen again. That "adult" needs to learn how to conduct himself in public, if he can't, then natural consequences are in order.

Imitating using the phone is in no way shape or form harassment. omg how stupid can you get?

 

[BusynMember]

I am NOT defending jerk dad, but we don't know what triggered his hyper-response or his daughter or him. Perhaps she has been sexually assaulted or stalked and both of them are terrified of anything that reminds them of paying too much attention to her. There is usually a story behind an overreaction.
A hard lesson for our Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids to learn is that people can act in ways that they don't understand for reasons that we don't know. To turn it into a positive (if you can) maybe it could be a learning experience. I try hard to get Sonic to understand what somebody else may have been thinking because he tends to see everything as black and white. But if this experience had happened to him, he would have been crying...and he is eighteen (sigh). Sometimes I just want to shield him from life...of course, I can't and you can't for your son either.
I'd let him go back to the library. Talk to Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker about it. As for librarian, she should have been more forceful about making him leave...but I'll bet she was scared of the idiot too.

 

[Malika]

OK, so Q needs to learn what most kids with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) need to learn, to take another's perspective, we will keep working, but its a scary world out there.

Yes, that's all very fine but... what about people who don't have Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) learning to take another's perspective? From what you describe, there wasn't a whole lot of that going on in the library last night among all these "normal" people. The girl over-reacted in a way I find bizarre and so much more so her father... at the same time, MWM's point is fair - there is usually a story behind an over-reaction. But if you can't understand that a young boy with special needs might do something like that, well... If I had been sitting there in her place - yes, even at her age - I would have just smiled at him, though I might well have felt a little uncomfortable too.
What is it with people that, when you explain to them that your son has special needs, they don't then look crestfallen and a bit shamefaced and back off saying "I'm sorry"... ? How sad for your son. I'm sorry it happened.

 

[hearts and roses]

I have to say that my first instinct was to try and see the situation from the girl's perspective. She doesn't know your son, clearly he is over the age of ten but not behaving as a typical 14 y/o might, perhaps she thought he was cute but when he started in with the fake phone stuff it caused her to feel uncomfortable, maybe there was a prior incident at the library with someone else. You just never know why the girl responded the way she did. Perhaps, for some reason, SHE was scared?

This does not excuse the father's behavior,of course. I think as parents of difficult child's, we instinctively believe (rightfully so) that they need to always be protected and we are on guard.

I think the Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker was shaken up and didn't handle this surprise situation well, nor did the librarians. Someone should have come over to the man and asked him to leave and threatened to call the police if he didn't settle down NOW.

I would stick to the plan and continue going to the library. If that jerky man shows up and says anything I would call the police for harassment. No way should difficult child be banned from his favorite PUBLIC library!

 

[keista]

If the girl felt THAT uncomfortable, or threatened, or WHATEVER. She should have gotten herself up and MOVED! Seriously, we teach our girls that it's not OK for ppl (men) to harass and take advantage of them, but don't teach them to protect themselves and KEEP themselves out of tricky situations. It's that hotel incident all over again. Sorry ladies, in my opinion this girl was as much the problem as difficult child and her crazy Daddy.

 

[TerryJ2]

Great responses here. I agree with-them all ... I can see it from all sides.
But I think the Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker does need to get back on that horse.
{hugs}

 

[AnnieO]

Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker did a reasonably good job. Going back to that specific library, though, is somewhat mandatory now.

Because kids mimic other kids. Even non-Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids. I've seen 18-y/o kids do it to their friends. Childish, yes. But it happens.

As for the father. He's one of those people that believe that all handicaps must be VISIBLE. I'd like to sic my husband on him.

 

[hearts and roses]

If the girl felt THAT uncomfortable, or threatened, or WHATEVER. She should have gotten herself up and MOVED! Seriously, we teach our girls that it's not OK for ppl (men) to harass and take advantage of them, but don't teach them to protect themselves and KEEP themselves out of tricky situations. in my opinion this girl was as much the problem as difficult child and her crazy Daddy.

You're absolutely correct. My point was to help see it from the other side. It's not always just about our difficult children. How do we know the girl wasn't a difficult child as well and that's why she and her dad over reacted? We don't know. The bottom line, however, is that the Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker and difficult child NEED to continue with their usual library routine. To back off is to say that this incident was anything more than it was and give the girl and her dad credence for their reaction. Not a good idea. While it's important to teach our kids to try and see others' perspectives, it's equally important to teach them to trust themselves when they know they've done nothing wrong. Others' reactions to us often have nothing to do with us and more to do with others.

 

[donna723]

Of course the father's response was waaaay over the top and inappropriate but I'm wondering if the girl might have embellished the story a lot when she told him about it? Not that that would excuse his actions. But no way is what difficult child did harassment. And if it bothered her, she could have said something to him, asked him to stop, or even moved, but it doesn't sound like she did any of these things.

 

[DammitJanet]

I am assuming the girl was your sons approximate age right? Not a whole lot younger or older right? I would also bet she made it sound more icky than it actually was because that is just what girls do when running to daddy...at least if they want daddy to get involved. If she hadnt wanted daddy involved she wouldnt have even told him about it. It could be she is somewhat a difficult child too. Or have had something else happen to her in the past. We dont know.

Maybe difficult child needs to not sit at tables with other kids in close vicinity to him for awhile. And what on earth was a girl doing with a cell phone in a library? I thought that was a quiet zone? Or maybe I just havent been in a library in a very long time...lol.

I really feel for you because I dont know how you are going to break through to him. Having suffered through a form of a Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) in 2008, I know a little bit what it is like but I got most of my function back. During the time I was on the Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) unit, it was really awful and no one could barely understand me. I was half the person I am today. Honestly if I was myself, they would not have been able to handle me at all.

 

[buddy]

I am NOT defending jerk dad, but we don't know what triggered his hyper-response or his daughter or him. Perhaps she has been sexually assaulted or stalked and both of them are terrified of anything that reminds them of paying too much attention to her. There is usually a story behind an overreaction.

Really I agree with all of you. My mind went all over the place. The librarian said that Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker really tried to explain to the dad and he just kept yelling and I think she was really scared. The librarian said she herself was really scared. Why she didn't tell him she was gonna call the police? And I have talked to difficult child about how that was "unexpected" (that's the word they use at school when he does something someone gets upset about even if it is not mean) and the reason he was near her was because it was the computer he was assigned to (they sign up and get on to the one that the next person leaves). I felt too she (yes she was just 15-16ish they said) probably did get overly dramatic because she had no idea he was autistic. And if she had some trauma or something, WHY in hell would they ever let her be in a major metro public library ALONE??? THAT I would never do.

For sure we are using it to help difficult child continue to learn boundaries, about other's perceptions etc. I said, well how do you think she felt? He said,
"well she didn't say anything" I said, well what did her face say...remember you have to look at what the face and body says too. He said "well I was looking at her face and my face was talking to her face so she should have known what I meant". He said he did not mean to hurt her, he was just playing. It had to be pretty subtle because both the Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker and the librarian could see him.

I did call Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker to make sure she was okay and to tell her that the librarian said she thought she did a good job of being strong at the time, even if she felt scared after. She said there is nothing anyone could have said to him. He was comitted to his position and couldn't admit he was wrong at that point.

We talked about better places to go to read etc. but he really likes to do some computer time too so I will just make sure that Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) folks are closer so they can see how people around him are reacting too, just in case they are missing something.

Nothing is simple. It just makes me worry for the future. I still worry he is going to provoke someone unwittingly and get beat up or killed.

 

[InsaneCdn]

And if she had some trauma or something, WHY in hell would they ever let her be in a major metro public library ALONE??? THAT I would never do.

Purely speculation, of course... but maybe she's having to work through things, like being independent, and doing "normal" things. Maybe this was the first time post-trauma that she was in this situation?

We don't know the other side of the story.

But I do know that there's lots of stories out there where, if people knew the "rest" of the story (as in, all people involved knew all sides of the story), then the whole scene makes sense.... but too often, all we have to go on is one side.

 

[buddy]

I guess I am overly protective, but trauma or no...no niece, nephew or kid of mine would be at the library alone, in a group or with a buddy fine but alone?? this is a place when it is cold that lots of folks use as a refuge. Librarian actually said, wow, a kid like yours is the last thing we have to worry about in this place. She said it is a good library but it is a PUBLIC library and in her opinion with the incidents they have had, it is not a safe place for kids to be alone. I still feel her reactions to his imitating her could be very justifiable, I just question the wisdom of a child/teen being alone in a huge metro public library at night. I would really hope if she has her own special needs, her dad would be even more willing to listen. Anyhow, anyone has a right to be worried about a teen boy (he looks about 11 at most but...) who is acting weird to a girl, and my difficult child needs more work, for sure. Just thought how he handled it was scary. Makes my mind go to bad places for difficult child some day.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Buddy -

YOUR reaction is... normal.
We all get there.
Even with my almost-easy child, there are days......

Typically, this "stuff" happens when we're already not in the best shape.
Don't ask me why. If I knew, I could probably make a mint selling some solution to the problem.
But it does - consistently.

Your difficult child has not stalled out - he is still making progress. Therefore... you do not know what the future may hold, but you can't predict utter disaster, either.

Go take a nice bubble-bath tonight, maybe with a nice cuppa to go with.

(p.s. - we're urban, but not "american" urban if you know what I mean... even the dt library would be safe for a 15yo girl at 9 pm as long as she waits inside to be picked up... so, I don't quite picture the same setting as yours when I wrote my post above)