school pushed too hard

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Jena

New Member
to be honest i truly feel a mod should be making some type of correction here to others in a majority of responses i'm receiving lately.

Your all quite nasty, the tone is not necessary and i know it isn't me my husband sat and read thru some because i said to him is it me the brain damage what? lol

he said no their being quite aggressive. bs? do you really think that type of language should be used in a forum for stressed out parents?

I"m not even going to respond to your response, it's pointless. I've been on the fence about leaving here for a bit now yet after just receiving this response i can't keep up anymore.

i do not lie about my life, my daughter's school, things i've had to fight for, what my husband and i have done for her. it's all very true as is the last day her experience and accomplishments that day.

i'm sorry yet in all honesty i think you should look at your language, nastiness tone etc. and think who is being the difficult child here? in every post someone responds to there shouldnt' be such a degree of this going on at all. there's no need.

take care, please don't even bother. i'm not coming back into this thread again. i can figure out how to handle my daughter's school issues.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Jena, You say your not coming back to this thread but I have no doubt you will.

I am going to attempt to be kind here but also explain what I feel is going on.

Over the past many months many of the posters on this board have noticed that many of your posts either dont make sense or they are contradictory to each other. Some of them contain information that is very hard to be believable. In some cases, you have probably made a huge mistake in merging your life between here and Facebook if you werent posting the same things here and there. In my experience, that does seem a bit strange but to each her own I suppose.

I think you can see why people would have questions about the veracity of your posts considering you post over and over about a topic and then nothing ever comes from it. If you think this is exactly nasty, well, I would expect your difficult child has spouted a bit more nastiness around your house than you get from us here...lol.

Most of us here are here to help a parent in need of help and when we are spending time responding to 4 or 5 pages to your issues that may or may not even be true, then it really begins to feel to us as a betrayal of our limited resources.

best of luck in whatever you decide to do.
 

hearts and roses

Mind Reader
Just throwing my .02¢ in.

I think that given all the challenges Jen has faced within the past two years (marriage, easy child leaving, difficult child's food phobia, health issues/testing that finally culminated in an MS diagnosis), it is easy to become *possibly* overprotective in regards to her difficult child returning to school - her difficult child is, despite her current remission, still in a fragile state...and it's *possible* that sometimes in the heat of typing it all out and repeating oneself, easy to sound confusing or send mixed information.

I don't think there is any one of us who has never been in a situation where we feel so completely overwhelmed we sometimes don't make sense to others. Reading a post is NOT the same as speaking face to face, as we all know all too well.

This is supposed to be a place of support - even if it means keeping your mouth closed at times. Not one of us will always agree with another's choice of parenting styles or approach with her/his family situation.

It is one thing to save someone from themself, it is another to be critical to the point of being emotionally abusive. IOW, if you don't have anything nice or supportive to say, perhaps you shouldn't say anything at all.

I've seen some past and present members get beaten up here because someone is trying to make a point or force another to see their point of view. It is not the right approach and we all know it because most of us have tried that with our own spouses and/or children. Rephrasing what you're trying to say in the form of a suggestion may be more helpful in getting your point across.

I'm not a moderator and of course, who am I? so you can ignore me. But I felt that I needed to get that off my chest.
 

Mattsmom277

Active Member
I would think that many apologies for tones etc would be forthcoming if clarity to confusion was forthcoming. When facts sometimes blatantly contradict each other, there are times that miscommunication is less likely seeming than simply possibly untrue or exaggerated. I think this is increasing over time due to the number of occurances and the lack of clarity after the fact to correct perhaps what are misconceptions.

I do know members here prove time and again how much caring and effort and thought they put into supporting one another. I also truly believe nobody, especially long term members, want to feel they have to be more blunt as their frustration and confusion grows. It is not a good feeling for the poster or the member whose authenticity might be questioned.

I know over 12 years here that at times some posts get out of control or some members rub each other the wrong way etc and things have to get cooled down. I do believe that when it is consistent confusion and conflicting information from one person over time, it is probably best to at some point clear the air one way or another. I believe that the people here are good people and for the most part are more than able to apologize when in the wrong. If confusion was cleared up and seemed in hindsight to be reasonable as to how it all occurred to begin with, I would hope members would be open with apologizing for their upsets or tones etc. On the other hand, if no explanation for inconsistincies over time are never forthcoming, it would be very interesting and telling in itself.
 

Jena

New Member
Janet your right and personally i think your an awesome person, great grandma and give your all all the time, as i do think of many others here....

yet this i will say in closing, confusing posts. this one wasnt. judging what my child did or didn't have is BS you are correct. telling another member you sound like a difficult child.....wow how funny is that? now in all honesty did any of us think of our kids got this way thru magic? no, we all know the deal they were either adopted as many of our great parents out there did and saved a child, literally, or our ex's had issues as did mine, or we ourselves have junk as do I.


In a place of support, one should always and yes i'll say it again use words such as "i have learned", or "from my experience", these are terms that are non threatening, not shoving your opinion down someone else's throat, and are very not only validating, yet reassuring to the poster whomever they are and in all honesty alot of new members as well as those of us who have been here are taxed when entering in.

I will not continue to post, and hear remarks such as "that's BS", a real laughable one, or i think your trying to "get attention", or the famous "i doubt that happened". I mean clearly we are all adults here, so why not act like one? We talk about our children's behaviors, yet i see alot of those behaviors exhibited here time and time again and yup its' going to happen because guess what we all have junk ourselves. Yet at no time should anyone use wording that way. it's just ridiculous and my concern isn't for me, i can go find another group to go to, it's for new members coming on board seeing junk like this.

If it were me i'd say oh no can't go there too much caddy woman junk going on. Afterall we are all woman, yet be kind, think before posting, take your time and think what point do i want to get across in my response? What's my goal here? I too do know i tend to repeat myself, and ya know what i'm not giong to apologize for that part of that is my ms, and part of it is me.

On another note, I do not have to make sure i post the same junk on facebook as I do here. This is an anonymous, supposed to be place for support, and i do not post on facebook alot anyway updates.

My life really has been this hard, I really am not medicated for those of you who have made comments in the past with all you have you should be medicated. I could def. use some anxiety relief and will get some soon. Yet this is me, i'm tough as nails, super strong as many of you are and I do what I gotta do to keep me strong and healthy.

So, anyway that's that. I yet again spoke my peace. I will say a thank you to all the great members and in all honesty it is the majority of you who have supported me, given medication info, advice insight support the past several years. Yet I really dont' feel it necessary to have to defend myself, listen to nasty junk, etc. i have clearly enough on my plate. So, that's it, i'll probably go thru cd withdrawal for a while, a shame i had to leave her due to the nastiness i've recvd. yet i gotta eliminate stress from my life and if this is creating me stress than i gotta be done with it.

anyone ofcourse who does want to talk via facebook and i am friends with several of you already please feel free to email and we'll exchange personal emails.

be well and be good to yourselves and above all think before posting truly you'l only benefit you and whatever new member comes along. as i'm sure i will try to be more concise in whatever lucky support group gets me next :)
 

susiestar

Roll With It
I am sorry you have interpersonal communication problems with people here. I know you have a high stress life. But so often you say something and then it is "oh I meant that" and then we are supposed to be all fine with it. But if someone writes something and you feel it has a "tone", and honestly most of the time I read the posts over and over and cannot figure out what that "tone" is that upsets you and I TRY to find it so that I can try to understand things from your point of view, well then you are pretty aggressive about telling them off.

We understand raw emotions and tender feelings, but I don't think ANY of us are used to your communication style. You often use words in ways that many of us, from many parts of the country and other countries, do NOT understand and then get angry with US if we question things. You usually have a "tone" in your posts that is frantic and very dramatic and makes things sound like emergencies, and you will ask and ask for ideas and suggestions. But few suggestions are commented on except to tell us how wrong they are and how wrong we are and how we don't know what we are talking about because someone else has told you something else. I am sorry if we haven't used your phrases of "in my experience" and "what I have learned is". every single language class and communication class I ahve EVER taken has said that to use those frequently is condescending. Why would someone post a different way to do something if they hadn't learned or experienced that it worked better for them? This is like prefacing each sentence or paragraph wtih "I said" or "I think" - why would you write it if you didn't think it or put it in quotes without someone else's name if you didn't say it? These are things that MOST of us learn in jr high or high school or later in life. IN MY EXPERIENCE - FROM WHAT I HAVE LEARNED - people get upset and think that I am either lecturing them or being condescending when I start putting those phrases before everything I say.

You seem to want us to be patient and lenient and never get upset with the way you speak to us and you feel very free to tell us off in some pretty tactless ways for saying anything that contradicts you.

Going back over the threads about your daughter's food phobia there were more than one person who was kind, understanding and tried to help. I know one mom gave you advice because her child had been there done that, but she is NOT NOT NOT the only one who supported you and helped. If you will remember, I spent a LOT of time replyiing to posts, sending private messages, looking up info and programs and letting you vent to me. I am quite offended by your assertion that only one person here was understanding and helpful. I couldn't tell you what medications to try because I hadn't been there done that with that problem, but I did ALL I could to support you and to help.

Your comments that we are all nasty and judging, well, be careful when you point fingers - one points to your target and three point back at you.

Sadly, I DO believe that it has taken you so long to get any help from the school. You want people to jump through hoops to help you, with few thanks and a lot of criticism over how what is said/done is not enough or not done in a way you like. Yet you consistently refuse to do what is needed to get a bureaucracy to do what you want. There are steps to follow and ways to do things that ARE hoops and maybe shouldn't need to be there, but provide you wtih the proof that you did meet the requirements to get the types of help your child needs. You systematically attack any suggestion that you do what is asked to meet what the school or bureaucracy NEEDS to justify the accommodations that would help your child. Over and over people here suggested you ask the ladies over on the Sp ed forum about ways to help get the iep, about the procedural steps that are required to obtain one. I remember it CLEARLY from when you were here before. Over and over you told us how we were wrong, how your way was the best way and we didn't know what we were talking about.

Just as you did on threads about your daughter moving out, getting into trouble, difficult child not sleeping, and even the problems with the dogs. What I find offensive is that if you just wanted to vent and be given sympathy, ALL you had to do was say that - "This is just a vent because I am so overwhelmed and frustrated I cannot cope". Instead, even if you said the post was a vent, you ASKED for ideas/suggestions/help. Then you attacked us for giving them if they were not what you wanted to hear.

You likely did not expect this from me. I have tried to be very careful in my posts to you. I have held my tongue a LOT of times. Gone back and edited and re-edited my posts before I submitted them. And still NOTHING I say is worth doing and largely not even worth commenting on. So regardless of if you stay or not, I am done. I simply have too much that needs my attention to keep attempting to respond in a way that is supportive. ESp when you blow off the hours I spent trying to find ways to help back when your difficult child was so very ill.I am truly, deeply hurt and offended by your comment that only ONE person here was helpful and gave you info that helped. A LOT of us did what we could and we don't deserve this.

I wish you well and hope that at some point you, your daughters, your husband and your dogs can have a calm and happy life. But I am through. You know very well I have been there when YOU needed me, ignored a LOT and chalked it up to venting, but I have had it. I do wish you and yours a happy life.
 
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i have seen nothing BUT an outpouring of patience and support for you from a bunch of anonymous strangers who wanted nothing more than to help.

and in return?

PM's (and now public) messages chastising "grown women" for that support when you dont like the tone, the question of the advice. *I* actually almost didnt come back here for that very reason, after you PM'd me when after my first reply to tell me to "tone it down because it was intimidating to people and bluntness wasnt appreciated", except it dawned on me that *I*need the support, ** DO take the advice and suggestions offer me, and *i* think this board is great, along with the knowledgeable people here on it.

for the record, some things are not a matter of opinion, they actually are a matter of law and in no place on the planet does the timeline for an IEP drag over a year.

you know what they say about keep on doing what you are doing....

hows it working for you?
 

klmno

Active Member
I think that was very well said, Susie. And for what it's worth, based on my personal, albeit layman's experience, Jen, you have accused many people here of doing things you do yourself. Also, it comes across to me that the way of thinking is distortional in a VERY codependent/dysfunctional way. However, no matter how kindly this suggestion is made, in an effort for you to perhaps see it and get help for that particular problem so maybe you can better help yourself and others in your family, you get very angry, verbally hostile, defensive, etc. But I have come to the conclusion that you are so caught up in dysfunctional thinking that you view these efforts by others as them "attacking" you and so you justify your defensive and hostile responses as "just". I don't think we can help you here. I think we all have tried.

The last post by you on this thread honestly comes across to me like you think you have been doing us a favor or that we should feel flattered that you have been posting all this stuff on this board.

Now, I have just said what is my opinion, based on my experience, and why I wouldn't bother with making any more suggestions- because they are never taken and only make you mad. Yet for some reason, you don't seem to mind the thought that your husband, difficult child, older daughter, and even dogs, have distorted thinking and need to work on this problem.

Personally- speaking for myself only- I don't know whether or not to be offended or laugh after reading that thread you wanted to start in the WC saying those of us here should think thru what we write in our posts more.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
lol your all kinda funny lately.... thinking i make stuff up it's not real etc. what is up with all of you??

Jen, am I being funny too? Please go back and read my posts to you (including the ones that got deleted by mods - I am NOT happy about that!).

The problem as I see it, is multiple - you post about problems, expressing them in extremely strong and emotional terms and, frankly, too negative at times. I stepped in at the beginning of this thread and tried to put in some perspective, because from what you described I felt that this school visit had a lot of good points, and to expect more at that moment was perhaps unrealistic. I DO think the school counsellor here did a great job. However, I do accept that I do not know your daughter. But then - the school counsellor can only work with her own knowledge base, and that clearly does not come from a point of personal knowledge of your daughter. How could it? SHe hasn't been to school this year, and SHOULD have had an IEP. Given all your efforts, your struggle to get an IEP for so long, it is criminal that there isn't one. By now I'd be calling in the media.

it is all very real, my life. from the hospitalizations, to the school issues to all of it. sorry it's unbelievable yet my life truly doesnt' allow me time to come in here and make stuff up... that would just be odd also. I would never think anyone would do that and that would probably have a name for itself in a form of a diagnosis lol.

Jena, there IS a name for it - Munchausen's by Internet. A variant on Factitious Disorder. Sadly, I have known a few people with some form of Factitious Disorder, and it can be very problematic. Interestingly, one obvious facet I recall from these people was the tendency to be VERY reactive, to attack at the slightest hint of scepticism. I remember my head reeling at times from the apparent unprovoked attacks, simply because I uttered the phrase "Wow! That's incredible!" meaning, "That is astonishing!" But it was taken as me not believing them when at that stage I had not 'wised up'. Your often hostile response at times (and I am sorry to have to mention it, you do this even with minimal to no provocation) sadly fits this. Of course it may be pure coincidence - if your life really is like this, it would make some people more inclined to be reactive and to feel paranoid.

Other hallmarks of Factitious Disorder include a sort of censorship of information; nobody may make contact with anybody else in the person's life. All knowledge about the condition in that person's life has to come via that person (or the person with Factitious Disorder). Information about the past is very tightly controlled - a problem with the Internet because we can always go back and check posts. We could go back years. This means that any lies told would be there to be cross-checked, if anyone had the time or inclination.

Another interesting hallmark of Factitious Disorder - Incredible self-centredness, often hidden beneth a mask of heroism.The focus is often on 'people love me, people say I am doing so well, how much they admire me' which can rapidly and unpredictably swing to 'everybody is mean to me; I'm going to take my bat and ball and go home.' One woman I knew used to tell me that the specialist we shared loved her more than he loved me.

As I have said on this site, I am a writer. I am qualified to write medical articles and often do. I have just written an article on Factitious Disorder, if anyone is interested. I personally find the topic fascinating, thanks to my past deep experience with it, having had to work as a counsellor with people with this condition.

So in answer to your comment - sadly, there are people who do this, and perhaps that is one more reason why some people (not all) are reacting to what they perceive to be your apparent inconsistencies and reactivity.

Why should this matter? Because it is becoming increasingly apparent that when a Munchausen's by Internet person invades a support forum, it risks destroying that forum. Opinions are often polarised (despite your observations that EVERYONE is sceptical and 'being mean') and this can drive a permanent wedge between members, especially when this IS a soft place to land. In the real world as well, this sort of behaviour can and does destroy support networks. Again, I have seen this happen. I had to leave one network because I had become the focus of hostility for one woman I believe to have been a Munchausen's by proxy case. I never expressed my scepticism to anybody at all, but I'm sure she knew. Or was attacking before I could 'blow the whistle'. She began attacking the entire support network, I believed in her attempt to get at me. Sadly, my departure did not save the group. It still exists, but is a shadow of its former self. All the hard work I put in when I ran the group, has gone. Her single-minded hostility had to destroy, sadly.

One last thought for us all - yes, this is a soft place to land. But if you jump off the top of the Empire State Building, NOWHERE is a soft place to land! There has to be some common sense prevail.

And to the moderators - lock threads by all means, but PLEASE do not delete threads unless there is in them something totally offensive and inappropriate to the site. I do not see any of this discussion, or the previous one on Watercooler, as inappropriate. Because in there with some of the expressed scepticism, was some very useful and directed support and advice. I found the repeated request by Jena to remove the Watercooler thread, to be a concern and also indicative of a realisation of perhaps having said too much. As a writer, I know how often we reveal a lot about ourselves especially when we write from the heart and write impulsively. But it does often make the best reading!

So, Jena, whatever you decide to do, wherever you go, whether you stay or not - I wish the best for you and your family. A healthy, happy future. You can be a part of making this happen - it is what we all individually are trying to do for ourselves, and this site helps us support one another to do that.

Marg
 

Mattsmom277

Active Member
I too feel that I spent hours sending very personal board messages and off board messages from the perspective of a person with MS who you asked particular questions of regarding your "diagnosis". I often did not ask for clarity even when contradictory statements were made, I merely did my best to answer as scientifically and based in medicine and personal experience as I could to help respond to your inquires. When I finally became frustrated and felt a bit "had" in some ways (rightly or wrongly, I was experiencing it) I did begin to point out contradictions and failed to even once have something "cleared up" despite nothing but kindness and effort expended to be that soft place to land that this board is supposed to be.
I too experienced you at times not even acknowledging lengthy detailed and educated responses to medical questions , and in some cases despite the obvious scientific proven content I'd provide, it would be ignored beecause someones wife or twice removed cousin said XYZ (which is not at all the entire picture to base an educated medical decision on) and basically I'd wasted my time providing proper information to help you make INFORMED choices in treatments etc.
I was then called out publicly in apparent attempt to try to embarass me because my S/O and I reached out in a less than hour conversation with your husband to offer my S/O's support as a fellow spouse of a MS'er, given that it is a entire family affected. Your husband seemed thankful for the dialogue, asked a few limited questions and again expressed thanks, and when he never reached out again that was fine, nor did we, the offer was out there for me to provide private contact info for S/O if your husband ever wanted to talk or ask questions guy-to-guy etc. At that stage you refused to ever respond to me rather than being appreciative of the ignored yet educated information I provided or for my S/O caring enough to offer to lend a ear to a family member. My S/O would give a limb to find another S/O or husband to talk to privately. He has his hands full and has been a gem for me and my children but that does not mean he is not greatly effected in all areas of his life due to my disease. That one would take offense and publicly attempt to twist the situation to embarass someone for something they didn't do wrong to begin with obviously makes one wonder what was threatening in that exactly and why the need to go on the offensive to a long term member like myself that was only ever going ahead in conversations based on your input to me about what was happening to you physically etc.
I have never seen people be so upset by a ongoing issue with a member as I've seen develop lately on this board and even then so many are expressing interest in listening if there is a logical explanation for inconsistincies etc. Yet eventually people cannot stand quiet and pour their hearts into support to someone who a) never takes any advice anyhow b) doesn't acknowledge the efforts of those trying to be there for them c) gets upset when people are confused and ask for clarification about things that don't add up rather than explain it beyond a typical "oh I didn't mean that". Something more substantive becomes in order for clarity when the same problems arise over time.
I have rarely seen members leave here for good due to upset about other members responses, and in the few cases that I do recall in the past 12 years, it is usually always a build up of frustration and after many many months of attempts to be supportive but to make sense of a particular members posts.
I hate to see people leave a supportive place, but if this place can't offer the brand of support that comes from honesty, transparency, and a two way informative dialogue, perhaps there is a better place for you where people don't mind saying only what one wants to hear and never asks for clarification to ensure their support and advice is meaningful. I for one enjoy this place and have stuck it out for 12 years BECAUSE people here bend over backwards and go far beyond patience often to remain a soft place to land, while also refusing to be a place to simply spits back sentimental based non helpful feel good messages only. That may be threatening to some. To each their own. I'm sure there is a forum that will be glad to only say what others want to hear, but I can't see that ever happening on this wonderful site as this site is about actual help, not placating others. I hope you find your version of a soft place to land and I have no doubt this place will be a soft to place land for many in the future.
As others have said, I do wish you well regardless of whether you choose to believe that or choose to take offense to the same bluntness you have commented on having admired in other posters in the past and have advocated using yourself. I told you once the saying on the board of take what you want and leave the rest is a good one. For you. For other members. In general a good life motto. If you do choose to remain I hope you do so with a more open mind to the outpouring from good people with good intentions and genuine desire to help others in mind. I know for a fact that I have witnessed dozens of members show you nothing but caring and wisdom and support and I too hope you don't believe only one person has bent over backwards to try to be there for you. Because that is not the case.
 

tiredmommy

Well-Known Member
I think, since Jena has stated she is leaving the board on a seperate thread, that it is time to lock this.
 
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