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SD has run away...
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<blockquote data-quote="LostSF" data-source="post: 368794"><p>Thanks everyone for your good wishes and suggestions. Here's my replies.</p><p></p><p>1) I've thought about putting a description of the basic issues in my signature as others have done, but I'm not sure what to say. SD has never been tested or seen a psychiatrist, only a couple of counsellors (who both didn't suggest anything in terms of a mental health disorder)</p><p></p><p>I have suggested to wife that SD may have a conduct disorder based on what I have read, but wife says no, she doesn't. wife works in social services and deals with children regularly, and says that she's worked with children who have conduct disorders and other mental health issues and that SD isn't one of them (because she no longer loses control, goes into rages, break things, etc.... although she did when she was younger).</p><p></p><p>But I feel that her current behaviour (constant lying, manipulating, showing no empathy for anyone else, cutting herself (which she no longer does, but was doing last year) and some other reckless behaviours) suggests that there is some kind of mental health issue, but at the end of the day its wife's decision.</p><p></p><p>So I'm just not sure what to say in my signature... any suggestions?</p><p></p><p>2) We've been doing the "rules/consequences" approach for a few months now. There were consequences before, but we're trying to make them more consistent and predictable for SD. But it's difficult. She just finished being grounded for 2 weeks (no going out with friends, no cell phone, no Internet) because she lied to wife. She also just finished a multi-month grounding from the Internet, because she shared personal contact info (including our address) with strangers and was using it in other inappropriate ways. Both of these groundings ended last Monday -- so she lasted a week.</p><p></p><p>And while she was grounded and in the last week, she continued to tell lies. Nothing major, but lies nonetheless.</p><p></p><p>Under the rules, that would mean she would be grounded again, but here's the problem: she has made it very clear she has no intention of ever stopping with the lies. No matter what consequences there are, she says she's not going to stop.</p><p></p><p>So what are we supposed to do -- ground her forever? If we stuck with the rules we set up for her, that's what would happen -- she would be grounded for months on end, and I have no doubt now that she would be sneaking out whenever she could. We went through all this with the Internet - even though she wasn't allowed on it for many months, she refused to accept responsibility for her behaviour and to commit to changing.</p><p></p><p>SD would rather live with the consequences and then try and find ways to cheat the system (like going on the Internet at school) than to learn from her mistakes and change her behaviour.</p><p></p><p>If we ground her for leaving the house, she WILL sneak out/run away again. I can almost guarantee it. And this time she may not tell anyone where's she's gone.</p><p></p><p>I'm just hoping we can find some way to avoid the "she runs away, we call the cops, she laughs it off and refuses to change and things just get worse and worse" cycle that I'm seeing ahead of us. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING seems to really work with SD when it comes to consequences, and I'm certain that having the cops bring her home, getting a criminal record, etc. wouldn't phase her either. She just doesn't care.</p><p></p><p>3) I understand that giving her control here is a mistake... but I just feel that tightening the reins is a mistake too. If we do that, I'm pretty sure she will either end up a) running away and not telling us where she is, or b) going to live with her (abusive) dad full-time. Either is a fate we don't want her to have, and so I'm hoping we can find another way.</p><p></p><p>I think the idea of writing the rules and consequences out are a good one. But I think it's going to be important to make sure she agrees to the rules, and maybe even suggests the consequence (assuming it's a reasonable one). I've heard of this working well with the "family contract" approach, and maybe if she feels like she's part of the process she'll be more likely to follow the rules. (I hope?)</p><p></p><p>The one problem I do have with this approach is that you can't make a rule for everything, and if you limit yourself to 5 or even 10, there's a lot of possible behaviours that won't be on the list. So I'm curious about what people who use this approach do when their child breaks a rule that isn't on the list?</p><p></p><p></p><p>4) As for my role as SD, I think I'm doing pretty much as you've suggested JJJ. I did for a while (over a year ago) try and play a role in the discipline, but a therapist suggested that wasn't appropriate so we stopped. So now wife does all the discipline, and I just sit in the background, offering suggestions and opinions. But SD even resents me doing that, and even though wife and I have such discussions in private, SD can tell by the way wife talks that she's spoken to me and is sharing my opinions as well as her own. I've suggested that I take even more of a back seat, but wife really values my opinion (she has some anger issues of her own, and I help keep her responses balanced). So even though SD benefits from my opinions and suggestions (in terms of more reasonable responses), she still resents it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>5) We have signed SD up for a three week counsellor-in-training program through the city. She seems excited about doing it, and we're happy because it will keep her busy for almost half the summer while wife is at work. We would have loved to have signed her up for some kind of overnight camp, but money is tight right now as I am laid off. We had hoped between the program, her two week grounding at the start of the summer and wife taking a week off of work that we would be able to keep her out of trouble. So much for that. :-(</p><p></p><p></p><p>6) I will suggest to wife that she share the rules and consequences with SW's dad, but we both know that in the end he'll just do whatever he wants. He dismisses every concern wife has ever shared with him about the kids, and because he is a chronic liar and manipulator himself he doesn't view those behaviours as concerns in the kids. He's made it very clear that he is much more concerned about himself than he is about the welfare of his kids, so it's been very difficult to get him to agree to any common rules between the two households.</p><p></p><p>But I'll suggest it, if for no other reason than we can say "well, we tried" if he choses to not use the same rules in his house.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So I know the general opinion here is that we need to keep the rules/consequences in place, including for running away (i.e., ground her for doing so). But deep down I know that if we go into a battle of wills with this child, one way or the other we're going to lose. Because I'm only her SD (and am not very close to her), I would survive if she chose to live with her Dad, or even if she chose to run away. But my wife is another matter, and it broke my heart to have to hold her last night while she sobbed about her daughter. It's definitely not the first time I've had to do that and I know it's not the last, but I know if SD leaves for good it's going to break wife's heart and that in turn will break mine.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="LostSF, post: 368794"] Thanks everyone for your good wishes and suggestions. Here's my replies. 1) I've thought about putting a description of the basic issues in my signature as others have done, but I'm not sure what to say. SD has never been tested or seen a psychiatrist, only a couple of counsellors (who both didn't suggest anything in terms of a mental health disorder) I have suggested to wife that SD may have a conduct disorder based on what I have read, but wife says no, she doesn't. wife works in social services and deals with children regularly, and says that she's worked with children who have conduct disorders and other mental health issues and that SD isn't one of them (because she no longer loses control, goes into rages, break things, etc.... although she did when she was younger). But I feel that her current behaviour (constant lying, manipulating, showing no empathy for anyone else, cutting herself (which she no longer does, but was doing last year) and some other reckless behaviours) suggests that there is some kind of mental health issue, but at the end of the day its wife's decision. So I'm just not sure what to say in my signature... any suggestions? 2) We've been doing the "rules/consequences" approach for a few months now. There were consequences before, but we're trying to make them more consistent and predictable for SD. But it's difficult. She just finished being grounded for 2 weeks (no going out with friends, no cell phone, no Internet) because she lied to wife. She also just finished a multi-month grounding from the Internet, because she shared personal contact info (including our address) with strangers and was using it in other inappropriate ways. Both of these groundings ended last Monday -- so she lasted a week. And while she was grounded and in the last week, she continued to tell lies. Nothing major, but lies nonetheless. Under the rules, that would mean she would be grounded again, but here's the problem: she has made it very clear she has no intention of ever stopping with the lies. No matter what consequences there are, she says she's not going to stop. So what are we supposed to do -- ground her forever? If we stuck with the rules we set up for her, that's what would happen -- she would be grounded for months on end, and I have no doubt now that she would be sneaking out whenever she could. We went through all this with the Internet - even though she wasn't allowed on it for many months, she refused to accept responsibility for her behaviour and to commit to changing. SD would rather live with the consequences and then try and find ways to cheat the system (like going on the Internet at school) than to learn from her mistakes and change her behaviour. If we ground her for leaving the house, she WILL sneak out/run away again. I can almost guarantee it. And this time she may not tell anyone where's she's gone. I'm just hoping we can find some way to avoid the "she runs away, we call the cops, she laughs it off and refuses to change and things just get worse and worse" cycle that I'm seeing ahead of us. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING seems to really work with SD when it comes to consequences, and I'm certain that having the cops bring her home, getting a criminal record, etc. wouldn't phase her either. She just doesn't care. 3) I understand that giving her control here is a mistake... but I just feel that tightening the reins is a mistake too. If we do that, I'm pretty sure she will either end up a) running away and not telling us where she is, or b) going to live with her (abusive) dad full-time. Either is a fate we don't want her to have, and so I'm hoping we can find another way. I think the idea of writing the rules and consequences out are a good one. But I think it's going to be important to make sure she agrees to the rules, and maybe even suggests the consequence (assuming it's a reasonable one). I've heard of this working well with the "family contract" approach, and maybe if she feels like she's part of the process she'll be more likely to follow the rules. (I hope?) The one problem I do have with this approach is that you can't make a rule for everything, and if you limit yourself to 5 or even 10, there's a lot of possible behaviours that won't be on the list. So I'm curious about what people who use this approach do when their child breaks a rule that isn't on the list? 4) As for my role as SD, I think I'm doing pretty much as you've suggested JJJ. I did for a while (over a year ago) try and play a role in the discipline, but a therapist suggested that wasn't appropriate so we stopped. So now wife does all the discipline, and I just sit in the background, offering suggestions and opinions. But SD even resents me doing that, and even though wife and I have such discussions in private, SD can tell by the way wife talks that she's spoken to me and is sharing my opinions as well as her own. I've suggested that I take even more of a back seat, but wife really values my opinion (she has some anger issues of her own, and I help keep her responses balanced). So even though SD benefits from my opinions and suggestions (in terms of more reasonable responses), she still resents it. 5) We have signed SD up for a three week counsellor-in-training program through the city. She seems excited about doing it, and we're happy because it will keep her busy for almost half the summer while wife is at work. We would have loved to have signed her up for some kind of overnight camp, but money is tight right now as I am laid off. We had hoped between the program, her two week grounding at the start of the summer and wife taking a week off of work that we would be able to keep her out of trouble. So much for that. :-( 6) I will suggest to wife that she share the rules and consequences with SW's dad, but we both know that in the end he'll just do whatever he wants. He dismisses every concern wife has ever shared with him about the kids, and because he is a chronic liar and manipulator himself he doesn't view those behaviours as concerns in the kids. He's made it very clear that he is much more concerned about himself than he is about the welfare of his kids, so it's been very difficult to get him to agree to any common rules between the two households. But I'll suggest it, if for no other reason than we can say "well, we tried" if he choses to not use the same rules in his house. So I know the general opinion here is that we need to keep the rules/consequences in place, including for running away (i.e., ground her for doing so). But deep down I know that if we go into a battle of wills with this child, one way or the other we're going to lose. Because I'm only her SD (and am not very close to her), I would survive if she chose to live with her Dad, or even if she chose to run away. But my wife is another matter, and it broke my heart to have to hold her last night while she sobbed about her daughter. It's definitely not the first time I've had to do that and I know it's not the last, but I know if SD leaves for good it's going to break wife's heart and that in turn will break mine. [/QUOTE]
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