Semi-ugly night going on

[Andy]

difficult child asked for icecream for dessert. We do not have any. Yes, there is chocolate chip mint icecream. O.K. You take it out of the freezer and I will make you an ice cream cone.

Well, one nasty thing led to another another and he was told to go to his room. Didn't go. "Mom, I need to talk to you." "No, you need to spend 10 minutes in your own room and then we will talk." Spends 15 minutes refusing, finally goes to his room. Out in 2 minutes, "Mom, it has been 10 minutes of missing you." "Get back to your room - you need to follow orders 1st and then we will talk." "But I have missed you for more than 10 minutes." "I need to talk to you so that I can go to sleep." "Go to your room - I will be there in 10 minutes." He slaps himself hard in the face and walks toward his room, "If I am still alive in 10 minutes." Now he is calling out, "Spank me, just come spank me".

Do any of your difficult children try to set their own punishments? I have no idea where he is getting this from (maybe mimiking behavoir witnessed in psychiatric hospital?) He thinks if I spank him than it will all be o.k. and over and done with.

I think this is another way for him to manipulate the situation into his terms. If I can't get out of a discipline, I will try to convince mom to punish me - If I say it is o.k. to do something like spanking, than she just may and I don't have to deal with her discipline (which includes thinking about what I am doing.)

What a wasted evening - and no ice cream! Oh Well!

It's been 10 minutes, I better go deal with the next step of this behavior. He is so tired that I think he will fall to sleep very soon - hope he feels better in the morning.

 

[Christy]

Sorry your evening is a tough one. My son will often bring me things and say I don't deserve this when he is calming downafter a meltdown. I guess that's his idea of a punishment.

You can still have ice cream-LOL

 

[Andy]

Thank you Christy - I called tonight Semi-ugly because I did a pretty good job keeping my cool (though still have a long way to go in that dept atleast I didn't totally loose it). And things started about 2 hours ago.

Went to difficult child after the 10 minutes - he stated he felt bad. "Why is that?" "The ice cream" "Yep, you did not listen to me. Everytime you disobey me or a teacher or the baseball coach or any rule, you WILL feel bad" Atleast I wish he would. It would sure make life easier. I don't think he felt bad because he didn't obey me, he felt bad because I set a limit and kept him focused on it. I didn't let him switch the subject.

I am going to work on making him follow the rules before a change in action can be made (he can not be allowed to side step a discipline by changing the setting). It seemed to work tonight.

 

[KTMom91]

Sending hugs...now have a nice big bowl of mint chip!

 

[gcvmom]

My difficult child's have done the begging-for-their-own-brand-of-punishment thing, too. Saying stuff like "slap me" or "hit me" or whatever. And I don't hit them. Haven't spanked anyone in years. They even say it to eachother, like it will somehow "even" the score or rectify whatever wrong has been done. I have no idea where they get this from either. But maybe you're right about them trying to manipulate the situation? So they don't have to think about it? I don't know -- it is weird.

 

[smallworld]

I don't read "spank me" or "hit me" as manipulation. I see it as an indication of how bad difficult children feel about themselves.

 

[Andy]

It's usually heard in the attidtude, "O.K., let's end this. Spank me - that is what you want to do - just get it over with." A snooty "I will tell you what to do" attitude. He does not want to face an unknown situation. He wants to know ahead of time what will happen. He has no idea what I am going to do so he will try to get things to go his way.

Once in awhile there will be an indication that he really does feel bad and wants a punishment. However, even then, I do not want difficult child to look at spanking or hitting as an end to the situation without having to think about what just happened and wonder if he would like to go through that again. He has to receive the right discipline.

I would like him to face up to his responsibilities.

Smallworld, you are correct. We do need to keep how they are feeling in mind. I think when we can recognize a situation for being, "I am tired or hungry", "I am hurting" or "I want my way now" it helps in what we need to do in dealing with the behavior. The differences can be so sublte and difficult to read sometimes. I usually try to watch for what lead up to this point to make that determination.

 

[nvts]

Adrianne! I'm sorry, but I was laughing as you described what's been going on here forever!

difficult child 1 does the identicaal thing. He's even told me why he does it.

Spanking is fast, doesn't really hurt and he gets out of his room and into the ice cream faster!

Punishment (go to your room, clean up your toys, sit on the naughty step, etc) takes time and there's nothing to do. If you spank then at least I can scream and yell and release the frustration.

I just tell him "I'll take that under advisement, but you still have to go to your room for 10 minutes and when the 10 minutes is up, I'll let you know if I've decided that this warrents a spanking" (honestly, I think the last time I "spanked" the child he was about 3!).

That REALLY flips him out! mooo-ha-ha-ha!

Great job keeping a level head!

Beth

 

[Andy]

I always say having smart kids does not make life any easier, in fact it is more difficult as they can see more ways out of a situation than is needed.

That is what I like about this board. Not only does everyone feel what you are going through (lots of been there done that) but they also recognize a "It is funny as long as I am not going though it" moment.

Our difficult child's really are so smart - they are just frustrated because no one is falling into what they think would make a perfect world. You know if we did everything their way life would be so awesome - Double icecream whenever you want it - heaven on earth - ect.

 

['Chelle]

My sister told me she once asked kids - "which punishment would you rather a 15 minute time out or a spanking" thinking they'd take the time out. They picked the spanking and then she said darned if I didn't have to do it, but I couldn't bring myself to spank them hard LOL. She asked them why and they said because a spanking takes 30 seconds and overwith and otherwise they'd have to spend all that time in time out. For her and I, spanking our kids meant one or two swats on the rear with an open hand. Probably hurt our hands more than them. I can understand their logic in this. LOL

Sorry you had one of those nights.

 

[Andy]

Spanking may end things quicker once they decide it is time to end this nonsense but why can't they figure out that if they would have done their 2 - 5 minute task when told 2 hours ago none of us would be in this spot. They just wasted 2 hours spent being yelled yet to get that task done.

Maybe filed under, "Icky negative attention but atleast it is attention." Rather have mum scream at me than no attention at all.

 

[Sara PA]

Another thought is that if he already has anxiety, he would want to put an end to his punishment -- and your anger -- as quickly as possible. He would believe that if he's in his room for ten minutes, that means you are angry -- and rejecting him -- for ten minutes. That's an unbearable thought for an anxious child. If you spank him, you'll stop being angry -- and rejecting him -- in 30 seconds.

That's certainly not the way we operate as parents but that doesn't mean that's not the way a child thinks we do.

 

[Andy]

Sara, I think you are correct in that! That is a great insight!

 

[susiestar]

Adrianne,

Have you used a timer for the 10 minutes? One he can see, or hear go off?

We ended much of these battles a few years ago by buying a photographer's darkroom timer at a garage sale. it even glowed in the dark! I put it on the wall where I could jsut reach it and would set the time. It would count down, then give a loud, very loud, buzz.

It ended the how much longers, seeing it be reset was not pleasant for a while, but it did get through that he spent 1 min, then 3 then 7 then the 10. So he spent21 imns instead of 10. He no longer could say we would forget when his time was up - boy was it loud, it couldn't be forgotten if the power went off (NO clue where that fear came up, but he did worrya bout this) because it had a backup battery AND glowed in the dark, and he couldn't argue with me - I told him to talk to the timer.

Just a thought.

Hugs,

Susie

 

[Andy]

Susie, We usually use the timer on the microwave but getting a more visually detailed one is a good idea. I would put it where both of us can see it (the kids always accuse me of increasing the time - this way he would know I have not tampered).