Seriously Sick of this Saga
- Thread starter Steely
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- aggressive child
To be honest, I had no problem with his night-day cycle. He did most of his sleeping while I was awake; I did most of my sleeping while he was awake. It gave me some time to myself. To be honest, the only time I truly relaxed was when he was sleeping; as it got closer to the time he would wake up, my tension increased dramatically. (I wasn't working outside the home because I was afraid to leave him alone.)
Just checked the Wiki page on hikikomori. Interesting that it has been identified and has a name. I can assure you it isn't a Japanese phenomenon. The number of teens we found through the internet in the US and Canada who live or lived like this amazed me. Most we met began to move on when they were around 20 or so.
Is it surprising that they want to control something in their lives? Their lives are so out of their control that they can't leave the house even though they want to. The household is their life. We all try to control what we can when we have control over so very little.
I was fortunate that I didn't need to. My son was fortuate that I didn't want to. He would have been devestated had I tried to banish him to his bedroom.
Steely
Active Member
WOW Sara!!! You just completely made my day with your knowledge and experience with your son. Thank you for sharing that. I had no idea!
I know difficult child has agorophobia due to many issues, some of which is compounded by being borderline AS - and it obviously now has moved into an actual fear of being alone in his room. He is anxious and becomes upset if he has to be outside of the living area now.
Wow, it just helps so much to know someone else has gone through this. Sara, what finally motivated your child to break out of this himself? I feel like if I do not help him, he will not do it.
I have to say the couch thing cannot be waited on because I need my space too. I am going to help him transition, one day at a time, and maybe try and have a little more empathy than I formerly did.
He is supposed to start these classes next week. I am really worried! How he is suddenly going to transition from living on the couch to functioning in an outside world.
I just have so many, many conflicting emotions about this. Fears of his future, anger that he is so horrible to me, empathy that he is so sad and lonely..............the list goes on and on. I am glad you guys can understand. I just want this fixed. And I want someone else besides me to feel a responsibility to help him transition into a functional adult.
When you guys talk about services - what do you mean? He has already qualified for Texas rehab services, but the best they can do is provide things like vocational training and stuff. Are there other services that could help partner with him like a mentor or coach, and help him transition through these difficult teen years? To date I have found no social services like this in Texas.
I know difficult child has agorophobia due to many issues, some of which is compounded by being borderline AS - and it obviously now has moved into an actual fear of being alone in his room. He is anxious and becomes upset if he has to be outside of the living area now.
Wow, it just helps so much to know someone else has gone through this. Sara, what finally motivated your child to break out of this himself? I feel like if I do not help him, he will not do it.
I have to say the couch thing cannot be waited on because I need my space too. I am going to help him transition, one day at a time, and maybe try and have a little more empathy than I formerly did.
He is supposed to start these classes next week. I am really worried! How he is suddenly going to transition from living on the couch to functioning in an outside world.
I just have so many, many conflicting emotions about this. Fears of his future, anger that he is so horrible to me, empathy that he is so sad and lonely..............the list goes on and on. I am glad you guys can understand. I just want this fixed. And I want someone else besides me to feel a responsibility to help him transition into a functional adult.
When you guys talk about services - what do you mean? He has already qualified for Texas rehab services, but the best they can do is provide things like vocational training and stuff. Are there other services that could help partner with him like a mentor or coach, and help him transition through these difficult teen years? To date I have found no social services like this in Texas.
I believe that what happened with my son is that his brain healed and matured. The magic year seems to be the 20th. He never lost his longing for a real life. I did everything in my power to make sure that while he was sick he didn't screw up in a way that was going to affect the rest of his life.
Your son may not be able to go to those classes at this time. If you remember, my son had to drop out of school in mid 10th grade and was never able to go back beyond an attempt that lasted two weeks in the beginning of 11th grade. At one point he tried the community college route and did last half a semester but an overzealous Environment instructor had him convinced the world was going to self destruct and sent his anxiety level through the roof making him unable to leave the house again. Eventually he got well enough that he was able to go to the community college and take the GED test (just the test, no classes) in two (IIRC) sessions. (I am amazed at how well he educated himself during those all night sessions on the internet.) It was still a good year before he was well enough to think about trying a school again. Even then, he only last nine months until he had to come home and regroup for a few months. This time he's been gone a year on the 19th. He now has a life beyond what either of us had thought possible after these past few years. He is now, we decided this past month, about as normal as everyone else is. Not perfect but normal. Perfect isn't normal. And normal doesn't mean there may not be bad spots down the road.
The answer for us was patience while he healed and matured, while he takes those baby steps he has to take. Anxiety is a b****. Pushing him was only going to make the anxiety worse and if the anxiety worsened, he stopped moving forward. I had to allow him to do it on his time schedule, just like learning to walk when he was a baby.
Your son may not be able to go to those classes at this time. If you remember, my son had to drop out of school in mid 10th grade and was never able to go back beyond an attempt that lasted two weeks in the beginning of 11th grade. At one point he tried the community college route and did last half a semester but an overzealous Environment instructor had him convinced the world was going to self destruct and sent his anxiety level through the roof making him unable to leave the house again. Eventually he got well enough that he was able to go to the community college and take the GED test (just the test, no classes) in two (IIRC) sessions. (I am amazed at how well he educated himself during those all night sessions on the internet.) It was still a good year before he was well enough to think about trying a school again. Even then, he only last nine months until he had to come home and regroup for a few months. This time he's been gone a year on the 19th. He now has a life beyond what either of us had thought possible after these past few years. He is now, we decided this past month, about as normal as everyone else is. Not perfect but normal. Perfect isn't normal. And normal doesn't mean there may not be bad spots down the road.
The answer for us was patience while he healed and matured, while he takes those baby steps he has to take. Anxiety is a b****. Pushing him was only going to make the anxiety worse and if the anxiety worsened, he stopped moving forward. I had to allow him to do it on his time schedule, just like learning to walk when he was a baby.
Thinking more about this, my son was a lot like the kids we met on line. It seemed like one day -- most were 20 or so -- they just decided they were going to go have a life. Some just went out and got jobs, some moved to new areas to start over. It was knowing those kids that gave us hope when the times were worse.
Fran
Former desparate mom
I agree with Sara. My experience with kids who suffer with disorders like ours is that nothing is a one step fix. Putting him out of the house will not teach him a lesson or help him into adulthood. If he is anything like my child, he would be curled up in a fetal position under a bridge.
One medicine doesn't turn the tide,
One therapy doesn't bring an immense light bulb going on.
It's trying to look at the world from their shoes and understanding why they think like they think. Because I'm the parent and I have the sacred responsibility to help this child to adulthood I have to work on helping difficult child find his way out of the dark box they pull themselves into when they feel a need to protect themselves.
I understand that you are all alone with an aggressive, scary adolescent. I understand that you want some supports. You need a safe place and a circle of adults who will come when you are in need. Neighbors,church members, family members or something like that. Calling police is always an option.
Have you connected with any of those organizations for parents of children with mental illness? There may be a chance of making connections for services. I asked everyone I came across for information.
I had a heck of a time in Texas trying to find services through the public system. I have found it easier in NC. Wish I could give you more suggestions. We are on the waiting list for adult supportive living list(it wasn't even a great fit but it was the best I could go with)for 7 yrs. HS counselor suggested it and they check every year to see if we are still interested.
Have you looked into the group PLAN in Richardson. My difficult child was under their umbrella for a year. It may be an option in terms of him living outside the house.
One medicine doesn't turn the tide,
One therapy doesn't bring an immense light bulb going on.
It's trying to look at the world from their shoes and understanding why they think like they think. Because I'm the parent and I have the sacred responsibility to help this child to adulthood I have to work on helping difficult child find his way out of the dark box they pull themselves into when they feel a need to protect themselves.
I understand that you are all alone with an aggressive, scary adolescent. I understand that you want some supports. You need a safe place and a circle of adults who will come when you are in need. Neighbors,church members, family members or something like that. Calling police is always an option.
Have you connected with any of those organizations for parents of children with mental illness? There may be a chance of making connections for services. I asked everyone I came across for information.
I had a heck of a time in Texas trying to find services through the public system. I have found it easier in NC. Wish I could give you more suggestions. We are on the waiting list for adult supportive living list(it wasn't even a great fit but it was the best I could go with)for 7 yrs. HS counselor suggested it and they check every year to see if we are still interested.
Have you looked into the group PLAN in Richardson. My difficult child was under their umbrella for a year. It may be an option in terms of him living outside the house.
I had very little support. My husband was gone, first 10-12 hours a day at work, then he worked out of town, then he split. I had my aunt and my best friend who stood by us through thick or thin and two other friends who would call from time to time. By that time we had given up on the doctors because they had made things worse if not actually caused the problems with medication mismanagement. The criminal justice system simply was not an option: my son had a neurobiological disorder and the system had nothing to offer. And I would never have called the police simply because there are too many instances where police shoot young men and full grown boys who they perceive to be violent. Most of the time I had faith that this ill child would somehow grow to be a normal adult. I wanted him alive and without a police record.
Big Bad Kitty
lolcat
Given your new found enlightenment, I certainly hope that you and difficult child can work together to find something that is workable to both of you.
Continued hugs and prayers!
Continued hugs and prayers!
Steely
Active Member
Kitty, not sure what I would call it - maybe enlightment, or maybe just confusion.
It has hard to one minute feel like you cannot take one more bleeping thing, and want your verbally abusive kid out - immediately. And then the next minute totally understand their illness and want to help them. I only hope I can blend the two feelings into one workable life philosophy.
Fran, I think you are right, difficult child would be curled up in the fetal position if I kicked him out. He would probably lose his mind, and become even sicker.
Somehow I have to find the patience, balance, and strength to not tolerate the abuse, and yet, try and help him. It is truly 2, equally challenging situations, his agoraphobia and his verbal assault, being smooshed into one that makes this all so hard for me. One minute with his mouth, he should be out on his own - then the next minute you see this debilitated soul sitting in your living room more lost than the alley cat.
Sigh..................
It has hard to one minute feel like you cannot take one more bleeping thing, and want your verbally abusive kid out - immediately. And then the next minute totally understand their illness and want to help them. I only hope I can blend the two feelings into one workable life philosophy.
Fran, I think you are right, difficult child would be curled up in the fetal position if I kicked him out. He would probably lose his mind, and become even sicker.
Somehow I have to find the patience, balance, and strength to not tolerate the abuse, and yet, try and help him. It is truly 2, equally challenging situations, his agoraphobia and his verbal assault, being smooshed into one that makes this all so hard for me. One minute with his mouth, he should be out on his own - then the next minute you see this debilitated soul sitting in your living room more lost than the alley cat.
Sigh..................
Im new here. Your problem sounded so much like my own that I know how horrible it feels to be in that position. My son has ADHD Conduct disorder - I am a single parent. He's been through the gammut of doctors have been taken off of all medication and at this point life is hell at my house. He has constantly daily rantings, sprews obscenities at me slams doors, breaks things, etc. Since he's gone off of his medications, I've gone on Effexor because of the stress creating such anxiety in my life. Hold on the best you can and remember that the problems today aren't necessarily forever. Or so they say
meowbunny
New Member
Kicking a child out who truly isn't ready to make it in this world is hard. I'm actually glad you decided to try another route.
However, you need to feel safe. Somehow, your son needs to get the message he cannot treat you the way he has. If this means he loses his things, so be it. You do not deserve to be verbally abused in your own home by anyone, let alone your child. You also should not have to be afraid of what will come after the verbal abuse. I don't know how you'll do it, but something really does have to be done about his behavior. Maybe make it that if he really wants to live in the living room, he has to show you respect? If he starts yelling or abusing you in other manners, then he is back to his room for the next hour? Put it in writing and have both of you sign the contract?
I'm sorry any of us are going through things like this with our older children. My daughter is nowhere near ready to live on her own. At the same time, the two of us living together is becoming a hell for both of us. She wants freedom, I want responsibility. The two goals aren't working so well. Hope yours goes better.
(((((HUGS)))))
However, you need to feel safe. Somehow, your son needs to get the message he cannot treat you the way he has. If this means he loses his things, so be it. You do not deserve to be verbally abused in your own home by anyone, let alone your child. You also should not have to be afraid of what will come after the verbal abuse. I don't know how you'll do it, but something really does have to be done about his behavior. Maybe make it that if he really wants to live in the living room, he has to show you respect? If he starts yelling or abusing you in other manners, then he is back to his room for the next hour? Put it in writing and have both of you sign the contract?
I'm sorry any of us are going through things like this with our older children. My daughter is nowhere near ready to live on her own. At the same time, the two of us living together is becoming a hell for both of us. She wants freedom, I want responsibility. The two goals aren't working so well. Hope yours goes better.
(((((HUGS)))))
totoro
Mom? What's a difficult child?
husband and I were just talking about this this morning, he asked why could I make it and he looked at K and thought there is NO WAY she was ever going to make it?
I thought about it... I said, Well I had been through a lot more by her age, sexual and physical abuse... loss.
No parents around to guide me. Already Adopted.
I thought maybe I was forced to? Maybe when push comes to shove, you just do?
Maybe she would? He said, No way...
I said I don't No...
But I was, so scared, when I was allowed, I would cling to my Mom when I was allowed... I would rage and feel so depressed when I was allowed... I had so many fears and nightmares.... I would rip my hair out, and just cry.
I said maybe if she wasn't medicated... she would. She would not be cognitively dulled... and she would???
Maybe she is more severe than me???
I don't know, maybe we do enable our kids, to avoid what we went through. There is a big difference
between some of the Mental Illness traits and the Autistic traits... some of the lower functioning traits of Autism can never be helped and they can become able to function on there own.
But some of the lower functioning traits that Mental Illness can be worked on and they can work through it... CBT can help as well as medications.
I for one know that staying in the house just gets easier and more comfortable.
It isn't mean to try and help him get out and on his own. Maybe not kick him out just yet... But get him ready and prepared...
I have days were I don't want to leave the house. But I need to... I need to get out and breath and live.
Your son does also.
We have to do this with K also... She doesn't want to leave the house today... I can't let her draw into herself... it becomes to comforting.
She wont even talk on the phone some days. Wouldn't talk to her Papa today, it is his Birthday...
I hope you guys figure something out that doesn't have to extreme...
Maybe Baby steps are needed for both of you to start this proccess.
I thought about it... I said, Well I had been through a lot more by her age, sexual and physical abuse... loss.
No parents around to guide me. Already Adopted.
I thought maybe I was forced to? Maybe when push comes to shove, you just do?
Maybe she would? He said, No way...
I said I don't No...
But I was, so scared, when I was allowed, I would cling to my Mom when I was allowed... I would rage and feel so depressed when I was allowed... I had so many fears and nightmares.... I would rip my hair out, and just cry.
I said maybe if she wasn't medicated... she would. She would not be cognitively dulled... and she would???
Maybe she is more severe than me???
I don't know, maybe we do enable our kids, to avoid what we went through. There is a big difference
between some of the Mental Illness traits and the Autistic traits... some of the lower functioning traits of Autism can never be helped and they can become able to function on there own.
But some of the lower functioning traits that Mental Illness can be worked on and they can work through it... CBT can help as well as medications.
I for one know that staying in the house just gets easier and more comfortable.
It isn't mean to try and help him get out and on his own. Maybe not kick him out just yet... But get him ready and prepared...
I have days were I don't want to leave the house. But I need to... I need to get out and breath and live.
Your son does also.
We have to do this with K also... She doesn't want to leave the house today... I can't let her draw into herself... it becomes to comforting.
She wont even talk on the phone some days. Wouldn't talk to her Papa today, it is his Birthday...
I hope you guys figure something out that doesn't have to extreme...
Maybe Baby steps are needed for both of you to start this proccess.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Sara, I loved your posts. What a caring mom you are! I was thinking that he's probably in the living room because he's afraid to be alone. I don't know about the verbal abuse. I also feel this young man probably couldn't make it on his own, which is why I suggested getting social services involved. My daughter was very capable of living on her own and had always had a job--in spite of her drug use. This really IS different. Sara, I think you and I are pretty much on the same page as far as the police. The only time I ever called the police was when my daughter pulled a knife on herself...and I hadn't really WANTED the police. I called 9-1-1 and asked for an ambulance, but they sent the cops. I'm really not a big fan of sending a minor child who has mental health or neurological issues to juvy hall as I don't think it helps one iota. But, hey, I've been accused of being too passive and soft...I never spanked either.
I have new respect for you and your gallant struggle with your son...lol. Thanks for posting here--I think you are a wise and brave woman with a wise and brave son.
Note to others: Not all adult children will make it because they are forced to do it. Some are too disabled to live alone, even as adults. It's not pleasant to think about, but there are some kids who will get hastily married (like me) or go to jail just to have a roof over their head and a meal. I think when you decide to kick a child out of the house you really do have to make it a very individual decision, and Sara's posts brought me back to earth (I tend to think about my daughter who DID make it). Sometimes, in my opinion, it's best to make sure social services has an eye on your child and a possible placement before saying he can't live at home anymore. Of course, if ANY young adult is a serious physical threat to others...sadly that plan can't always be put into place...I would have no advice under those circumstances.
I have new respect for you and your gallant struggle with your son...lol. Thanks for posting here--I think you are a wise and brave woman with a wise and brave son.
Note to others: Not all adult children will make it because they are forced to do it. Some are too disabled to live alone, even as adults. It's not pleasant to think about, but there are some kids who will get hastily married (like me) or go to jail just to have a roof over their head and a meal. I think when you decide to kick a child out of the house you really do have to make it a very individual decision, and Sara's posts brought me back to earth (I tend to think about my daughter who DID make it). Sometimes, in my opinion, it's best to make sure social services has an eye on your child and a possible placement before saying he can't live at home anymore. Of course, if ANY young adult is a serious physical threat to others...sadly that plan can't always be put into place...I would have no advice under those circumstances.
It definately has to be an individual decision. Make no mistake, my son was abusive towards me -- verbally, psychologically and, yes, physically. But I knew my son well enough to know that something was causing him to act outside his true nature, that he was ill, not evil. I knew my son was a good and compassionate person who loved and respected me and regretted the behavior that was caused by his malfunctioning brain. Had those things not been true, I may have chosen an entirely different path.
(Thanks, MWM. For everything!)
(Thanks, MWM. For everything!)
Fran
Former desparate mom
I liken putting a young man with the difficulties mine has out of the house in the same category as if he had Down's. Different disability but equally crippling. This doesn't mean that some day I won't but for now I can not justify it.
Maybe some young adults will sink or swim as many of you parents who were difficult child's seem to have done but it's not appropriate for someone with this sort of disability. in my humble opinion of course.
Maybe some young adults will sink or swim as many of you parents who were difficult child's seem to have done but it's not appropriate for someone with this sort of disability. in my humble opinion of course.
totoro
Mom? What's a difficult child?
I don't know... This post has me thinking so much about my little one... Could I ever do that to her??? It is so easy to sit here and be an armchair quarter back... Yeah sure I did it... But I sure as heck do not want her going through what I did.
I honestly don't know if I could do that to her... I read what Sara and Fran post and and think... I guess it would depend on her level by then. I think WW knows her child and can be the only one to make that decision... She has to do what is best for the both of them.
I hate to even think about any of this... it is so sad.
I honestly don't know if I could do that to her... I read what Sara and Fran post and and think... I guess it would depend on her level by then. I think WW knows her child and can be the only one to make that decision... She has to do what is best for the both of them.
I hate to even think about any of this... it is so sad.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
I think it totally depends on the child and the situation. Its so easy to tell a parent what to do from behind a computer screen but it is so hard to do when you are that parent. If it was easy to just put adult kids out I wouldnt have two still living at home!
They both drive me insane but for different reasons. I think Billy is slowly getting to the point where he could live alone if he could get a job that would pay enough and he could afford a car to learn to drive. Thats all that is stopping him right now. He may never be as socially aware as most people his age but thats ok. He reminds me so much of that character in The 40 Year Old Virgin.
Cory, on the other hand, wants out badly. He would make it but he has so many problems right now that he has buried himself. He also doesnt want to admit it to himself but I think he is somewhat scared to leave us. He is at that point where he has figured out that he has really messed his life up. We want to put him out about 5 times a week but then we know he would just mess up more so we dont. Another 5 times a week he shows he is trying so it about balances out. Sigh.
They both drive me insane but for different reasons. I think Billy is slowly getting to the point where he could live alone if he could get a job that would pay enough and he could afford a car to learn to drive. Thats all that is stopping him right now. He may never be as socially aware as most people his age but thats ok. He reminds me so much of that character in The 40 Year Old Virgin.
Cory, on the other hand, wants out badly. He would make it but he has so many problems right now that he has buried himself. He also doesnt want to admit it to himself but I think he is somewhat scared to leave us. He is at that point where he has figured out that he has really messed his life up. We want to put him out about 5 times a week but then we know he would just mess up more so we dont. Another 5 times a week he shows he is trying so it about balances out. Sigh.
