Seriously Sick of this Saga
- Thread starter Steely
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- aggressive child
Steely
Active Member
Terry, thanks, yes, I am doing so much better because of every single one of you and you empathy and understanding. :smile: You just have no idea how your compassion changed the color of my world.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!
:bow:
By your compassion changing my world, I was able to extend that to my son, who is doing so much better today - that it is almost unbelievable. I got him out today to spend a gift card he got for Cmas, and although he was agitated with the social aspect, he made it through. He bought some things for his room with his gift card, to hook up his computer and speakers differently - and now he is currently jamming out to his music - IN HIS ROOM - for the first time in months!!! Yes!
Now my next question is whether you guys think having him take a 5 day a week class for his GED that offers tutoring, and vocational training is better than a class 2 times a week that is only a GED focused class. I am torn on pushing him too hard with the 5 day a week thing - but yet - it seems he may need the structure that being out doing something 5 days a week would offer. I just don't know what is feasible, and what he is truly capable of being successful in. God knows the 5 day a week thing would be ideal in every sense - unless it stressed him to the point of backsliding even further.
Thanks again - you guys are my lifeline.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!
:bow:
By your compassion changing my world, I was able to extend that to my son, who is doing so much better today - that it is almost unbelievable. I got him out today to spend a gift card he got for Cmas, and although he was agitated with the social aspect, he made it through. He bought some things for his room with his gift card, to hook up his computer and speakers differently - and now he is currently jamming out to his music - IN HIS ROOM - for the first time in months!!! Yes!
Now my next question is whether you guys think having him take a 5 day a week class for his GED that offers tutoring, and vocational training is better than a class 2 times a week that is only a GED focused class. I am torn on pushing him too hard with the 5 day a week thing - but yet - it seems he may need the structure that being out doing something 5 days a week would offer. I just don't know what is feasible, and what he is truly capable of being successful in. God knows the 5 day a week thing would be ideal in every sense - unless it stressed him to the point of backsliding even further.
Thanks again - you guys are my lifeline.
Big Bad Kitty
lolcat
Is it something you pay for? DO you lose the money if he tries it for say a week and learns that he can't hack it?
What does he say? If he thinks he can't do it, I would not push him. If he thinks he can. I'd try it.
With enlightenment often comes some initial confusion. Hopefully you can work your way through it. As far as your safety goes, you CAN call the law if he is being abusive, if for no other reason than to get him to stop FOR THE MOMENT. It would not mean having him removed from the home permanently. Just know you can do that should the need arise.
(((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))
What does he say? If he thinks he can't do it, I would not push him. If he thinks he can. I'd try it.
With enlightenment often comes some initial confusion. Hopefully you can work your way through it. As far as your safety goes, you CAN call the law if he is being abusive, if for no other reason than to get him to stop FOR THE MOMENT. It would not mean having him removed from the home permanently. Just know you can do that should the need arise.
(((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))
I think a seventeen year old has a better idea of what he can do than those of us on the board. Your job isn't to push but to support him in his attempts to get out.
Trust me, if he didn't have to stay home all day or go everywhere with his mother, he wouldn't be doing it. We really aren't their first choice of companionship at that age.
Trust me, if he didn't have to stay home all day or go everywhere with his mother, he wouldn't be doing it. We really aren't their first choice of companionship at that age.
Fran
Former desparate mom
Talking to him and getting his input may help. He has to do something, what does he think he can handle?
Remind him that nothing is written in stone. If it doesn't work, it's not a disaster. It just means you both sit back, reassess and then move forward in another direction.
I'm glad you had a good day. It makes a difference when you have a glimmer of hope.
Remind him that nothing is written in stone. If it doesn't work, it's not a disaster. It just means you both sit back, reassess and then move forward in another direction.
I'm glad you had a good day. It makes a difference when you have a glimmer of hope.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Agree again, Sara.
Honestly, I think lots of us tend to think our kids are "bad" when they are sick. I read stuff like "he's emotionally abusing me" and wonder if he's doing it because he's mean and rotten or if he's sick, and I usually think it's because the child is sick. Maybe (like I said) I'm a softie, but I think that this atypical behavior is usually due to severe mental illness or substance abuse. I'm tougher on the substance abuse because enabling a user can be worse than offering a warm and fuzzy place to use (in my opinion). But if somebody is mentally ill or has Aspergers/autism and obviously has no idea how to live in the real world (and maybe never WILL have that ability) then it's cruel in my opinion to throw them out with nowhere for them to go. in my opinion some are too quick to call the police when it won't help because the kids are very sick--I can see calling if it will lead to placement or psychiatric or neurological support, but not if it will lead to a police record or jail. I really think we have to look at our children's disabilities before we make decisions. Calling the police for a drug abuser may work whereas calling the police on an out-of-control autistic child most likely won't work. It's true that the "real" world won't care about our children's disabilities. That's why, in some cases, our kids really are not equipped to live independently in the "real" world. That's why assisted living apartments and group homes exist--for those adults who need a bit of help with the real world. Some grow up much later and some have disabilities that inhibit them from ever being able to live a totally dependent life and, in my opinion, that isn't the end of the world. To me, untreated mental illness and autism is the end of the world--and those of us who try to force our kids to act like they don't have these problems. Sometimes we have to alter what we want for our children. The child in question here, although seventeen, sounds very atypical and unready to live alone. Will he ever be able to? Time will tell. Depends on what's wrong and if he gets the proper help--even then NOBODY knows. When we give advice, we should remember that all kids are different. I forget myself sometimes. Shame on me (and I'm serious).
Honestly, I think lots of us tend to think our kids are "bad" when they are sick. I read stuff like "he's emotionally abusing me" and wonder if he's doing it because he's mean and rotten or if he's sick, and I usually think it's because the child is sick. Maybe (like I said) I'm a softie, but I think that this atypical behavior is usually due to severe mental illness or substance abuse. I'm tougher on the substance abuse because enabling a user can be worse than offering a warm and fuzzy place to use (in my opinion). But if somebody is mentally ill or has Aspergers/autism and obviously has no idea how to live in the real world (and maybe never WILL have that ability) then it's cruel in my opinion to throw them out with nowhere for them to go. in my opinion some are too quick to call the police when it won't help because the kids are very sick--I can see calling if it will lead to placement or psychiatric or neurological support, but not if it will lead to a police record or jail. I really think we have to look at our children's disabilities before we make decisions. Calling the police for a drug abuser may work whereas calling the police on an out-of-control autistic child most likely won't work. It's true that the "real" world won't care about our children's disabilities. That's why, in some cases, our kids really are not equipped to live independently in the "real" world. That's why assisted living apartments and group homes exist--for those adults who need a bit of help with the real world. Some grow up much later and some have disabilities that inhibit them from ever being able to live a totally dependent life and, in my opinion, that isn't the end of the world. To me, untreated mental illness and autism is the end of the world--and those of us who try to force our kids to act like they don't have these problems. Sometimes we have to alter what we want for our children. The child in question here, although seventeen, sounds very atypical and unready to live alone. Will he ever be able to? Time will tell. Depends on what's wrong and if he gets the proper help--even then NOBODY knows. When we give advice, we should remember that all kids are different. I forget myself sometimes. Shame on me (and I'm serious).
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I truly have no idea. My guess is all are different. Maybe he'd have to go to a more institutionalized setting. I'm fortunate that my son is very passive, but I'd call social services to find out any/all options for your son. And I'd pester then until I got answers.
Fran
Former desparate mom
WW, I only know about adult living situations. The one's I looked into have to have clients stable but are prepared for instability. Their client population has a lot of fluctuations. I don't know about group homes though.
If your son is interested, it may help.
Again, I recommend you network with other parents who struggle with difficult teens to mine the services and institutions that may be available in your area. I never found one stop shopping in regards to services.
If your son is interested, it may help.
Again, I recommend you network with other parents who struggle with difficult teens to mine the services and institutions that may be available in your area. I never found one stop shopping in regards to services.
I think there is a range of assisted living facilities. It may take some serious work to find some place that will work for him.
This thread has brought so many thoughts to my head. I AM a parent who called the police on my son. We tried everything else we could think of or find. The first call ended up with a wonderful Sheriff's Deputy talking to him and us, and it kept him from seriously hurting himself.
The second time was because I truly could NOT cope anymore and could NOT access the right services until a court ordered them. I tried (as those of you who were here then know) everything. My family truly thought I was a monster at first. I mean my parents. They came to see (very quickly) that if he had knocked me out he probably would have then killed his sister. It was his plan. We found it in writing in his room.
We have great Sheriff's Deputies, and a great Sheriff. We live outside the city limits. When we called the police while we lived with my parents, the officer who responded was also awesome. We called then because he did not come home from school and was not with anyone we could contact - he disappeared for 7 hours.
Texas law enforcement is VERY different. We are blessed here, and we know it. The first calls were not recorded anywhere, and my son had no record. He still has not been formally charged, and we never did get the help that the courts could have ordered. I truly think that the terror caused by several court appearances adn 4 weeks of not knowing if he would be going back to the same place after school or going to some facility or other is part of what he needed.
It made me SICK to have to do it. But I had other children to protect. I also had a father who stepped in and talked my mother into taking my son on. He will be with them until they say otherwise.
I do not believe your son can become emancipated if he does not have a way to support himself. And the skills to handle his life.
Does he have an interest in any part of the vocational program? IF so, or if he will be exposed to the different courses offered, I would really give the 5 day program a shot. Here in OK Vocational school is free if the child is of age to be enrolled in school. (My son is finishing the college prep stuff this year-his junior- and then will do a 2 year vocational program. The state will pick up the tab for the 2nd year, some program they are offering.) It might be worth looking into.
I think if he had some friends in a vocational program then maybe he could be moved into an appointment with them, with some assists.
IF it comes down to cutting off the electricity, look into mini-storage units with electricity. We found that they were about $20 a month more, but were climate controlled. I was thinking that you could put a freezer, hot plate, whatever YOU needed in there. NOT that youcould move him there,!!!!! (Though a friend of my bro's lives in a mini-storage place. NOT the most well adjusted soul, but a very nice guy none the less).
The agoraphobia should open some doors for services, I would think. I hope that you can find some help for him. And stop the verbal abuse.
I will say that if the abuse becomes physical you may NEED to call the police. As it is, have you checked the domestic violence/women's shelters for help? Just because he is a kid (teen) doesn't mean you can't both get help. And they are free. Ifound the counsellor I saw at DV was very helpful, and she knew of programs that no one else knew of. If nothing else, maybe you can get info from them.
Hugs,
Susie
ps. Glad he used his gift card for something that helped him spend time in his room.
This thread has brought so many thoughts to my head. I AM a parent who called the police on my son. We tried everything else we could think of or find. The first call ended up with a wonderful Sheriff's Deputy talking to him and us, and it kept him from seriously hurting himself.
The second time was because I truly could NOT cope anymore and could NOT access the right services until a court ordered them. I tried (as those of you who were here then know) everything. My family truly thought I was a monster at first. I mean my parents. They came to see (very quickly) that if he had knocked me out he probably would have then killed his sister. It was his plan. We found it in writing in his room.
We have great Sheriff's Deputies, and a great Sheriff. We live outside the city limits. When we called the police while we lived with my parents, the officer who responded was also awesome. We called then because he did not come home from school and was not with anyone we could contact - he disappeared for 7 hours.
Texas law enforcement is VERY different. We are blessed here, and we know it. The first calls were not recorded anywhere, and my son had no record. He still has not been formally charged, and we never did get the help that the courts could have ordered. I truly think that the terror caused by several court appearances adn 4 weeks of not knowing if he would be going back to the same place after school or going to some facility or other is part of what he needed.
It made me SICK to have to do it. But I had other children to protect. I also had a father who stepped in and talked my mother into taking my son on. He will be with them until they say otherwise.
I do not believe your son can become emancipated if he does not have a way to support himself. And the skills to handle his life.
Does he have an interest in any part of the vocational program? IF so, or if he will be exposed to the different courses offered, I would really give the 5 day program a shot. Here in OK Vocational school is free if the child is of age to be enrolled in school. (My son is finishing the college prep stuff this year-his junior- and then will do a 2 year vocational program. The state will pick up the tab for the 2nd year, some program they are offering.) It might be worth looking into.
I think if he had some friends in a vocational program then maybe he could be moved into an appointment with them, with some assists.
IF it comes down to cutting off the electricity, look into mini-storage units with electricity. We found that they were about $20 a month more, but were climate controlled. I was thinking that you could put a freezer, hot plate, whatever YOU needed in there. NOT that youcould move him there,!!!!! (Though a friend of my bro's lives in a mini-storage place. NOT the most well adjusted soul, but a very nice guy none the less).
The agoraphobia should open some doors for services, I would think. I hope that you can find some help for him. And stop the verbal abuse.
I will say that if the abuse becomes physical you may NEED to call the police. As it is, have you checked the domestic violence/women's shelters for help? Just because he is a kid (teen) doesn't mean you can't both get help. And they are free. Ifound the counsellor I saw at DV was very helpful, and she knew of programs that no one else knew of. If nothing else, maybe you can get info from them.
Hugs,
Susie
ps. Glad he used his gift card for something that helped him spend time in his room.
Marguerite
Active Member
Sara, what you describe sounds like a stage of development foisted on him by a range of issues, including his own diagnosis. You sound like you supported him well but you still had boundaries you were able to work with (as was he).
The problem becomes badly dysfunctional when the parent feels totally out of control and nothing positive (even in terms of long-term progress) seems likely to be happening. My suggestion to shut off household power if necessary, is one to use (if necessary) as a way of raising awareness to the need to fit in with other people's needs. I have used the threat but never had to carry it out. But then, it hasn't been quite that extreme for us. Getting there, at times. What I was trying to say - if you DO feel a desperate need to bring about change, you can't even attempt to force changes unless you have the power to do so (such as the power to remove the power). If you can tolerate it or feel you have some sense of direction, then of course you don't do anything so drastic. But you should never threaten to take steps you cannot actually carry out.
Sara, you sound like you handed your son's situation well and positively. Thanks for your insight into this. If you read more about hikikomori, you will see some parallels for sure, but there seem to be subtle shades of extremity and peculiarly Japanese social overlay that make is different. I became interested when I saw a documentary and then recognised a young exchange student we'd met (we get a lot of Japanese exchange students in Australia, they literally come by the planeload). We've billeted them before, as part of a group billet. This has involved us sharing as families on how we've managed (or not). The young man we met was on the edge of it. I suspect his parents had made him come to Australia as a last-ditch attempt to get him involved with Life. He did not seem agorophobic, but he was completely socially withdrawn and would refuse to make eye contact or even look at anything around him. He did not seem autistic, however. He simply - endured, until he could get back home. He never spoke, not even in Japanese. The other students all said this was a very recent development. He was 15.
Getting back to this thread - I also agree with MWM - this 17 y o does sound very spectrum-ish. In which case, you can't apply the usual "17 year olds should be doing THIS" because the calendar just doesn't seem to apply. He sounds like he would not cooperate with assessment - although today's news is very positive, it sounds like there is plenty of wiggle room after all.
Marg
The problem becomes badly dysfunctional when the parent feels totally out of control and nothing positive (even in terms of long-term progress) seems likely to be happening. My suggestion to shut off household power if necessary, is one to use (if necessary) as a way of raising awareness to the need to fit in with other people's needs. I have used the threat but never had to carry it out. But then, it hasn't been quite that extreme for us. Getting there, at times. What I was trying to say - if you DO feel a desperate need to bring about change, you can't even attempt to force changes unless you have the power to do so (such as the power to remove the power). If you can tolerate it or feel you have some sense of direction, then of course you don't do anything so drastic. But you should never threaten to take steps you cannot actually carry out.
Sara, you sound like you handed your son's situation well and positively. Thanks for your insight into this. If you read more about hikikomori, you will see some parallels for sure, but there seem to be subtle shades of extremity and peculiarly Japanese social overlay that make is different. I became interested when I saw a documentary and then recognised a young exchange student we'd met (we get a lot of Japanese exchange students in Australia, they literally come by the planeload). We've billeted them before, as part of a group billet. This has involved us sharing as families on how we've managed (or not). The young man we met was on the edge of it. I suspect his parents had made him come to Australia as a last-ditch attempt to get him involved with Life. He did not seem agorophobic, but he was completely socially withdrawn and would refuse to make eye contact or even look at anything around him. He did not seem autistic, however. He simply - endured, until he could get back home. He never spoke, not even in Japanese. The other students all said this was a very recent development. He was 15.
Getting back to this thread - I also agree with MWM - this 17 y o does sound very spectrum-ish. In which case, you can't apply the usual "17 year olds should be doing THIS" because the calendar just doesn't seem to apply. He sounds like he would not cooperate with assessment - although today's news is very positive, it sounds like there is plenty of wiggle room after all.
Marg
mrscatinthehat
Seussical
sorry i missed out on this. Just sending hugs for whatever path you need to continue on.
Beth
Beth
wakeupcall
Well-Known Member
Who was it that said, "If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got." ? This seems to apply. I have always tried to remember that quote because it can be SO true. It seems there HAS to be something to change.
wakeupcall
Well-Known Member
Reading this thread could almost make me cry....and my difficult child is ony 12. I can see this happening to us in a few years, but I too think difficult child is mentally ill and couldn't most likely ever live out on his own. He DOES have the maturity now of about an 8 year old and I keep wondering if he's going to catch up....ever. He's VERY dependent on us...husband cuts his meat into bitesize pieces, reminds him to wash his hair in the shower, I fold his clothes out of the dryer and keep them in MY room because all he does is trash his drawers, etc. I know he'll outgrow some of this, but it sounds like to me that your son wants to be in the thick of things and if he's in his room he might just miss out on something, thus moving into the living room. My difficult child is exactly the same even at his age. He is up my nose all the time....it's exhausting. I stumble over him trying to cook dinner. Although your son has the appearance of a grown man, he isn't. Patience is very difficult sometimes. Be strong, and remember YOU are a warrior mom!!
