Should I force him?

[SuZir]

Hi!

I'm one of those deviant Europeans of the board Quite a bit north from you and in much less family orientated culture (one of those blond, cold-blooded bast**ds of the north ), but I do understand your dilemma. Part of which is, that if you would 'get rid' of your problem kid, it only would mean that rest of your family members would be burden with him. And I'm sure that is not an extra stress you would like to put for example on your other child.

Can you talk with your son? Actually have meaningful conversations or are those likely to end up to yelling and frustration for both parties? Have you discussed about what his dreams and plans are and does he have any? How about his social interaction? Does he have friends, does he spend time with them and what are they doing? Without you telling the country you are from, I of course can't be sure, but I will guess that finding a job will not be something you can demand from your son like our US board members tend to do. My neck of woods is not in the same situation like some of the Mediterranean countries, but even here "have a job in on month time" would be undoable even for the most PCist kid without skills and education. In some countries, like for example Spain, it would be undoable for a kid with relevant education and work experience (like for example for registered nurse or even a MD.) Things are bad right now.

But it would be important to get your son moving. Does he express interest or initiative for anything? If not, I would try to force him to have psychiatric evaluation. That could be a sign of depression. If not, try to come up with something else to get him moving. Kid of someone I know, who was in the bit of similar situation to yours, is currently in New Zealand in work and travel program and thriving and making plans for what to do after this gap year. But surviving that takes some initiative. There are also many other types of volunteering programs that could be helpful for a kid who seems to be stuck. Some are expensive, but some are more affordable. Also summer is coming and there will be seasonal work around Europe available. Much of it being physical and hard for your back, but can also be a great adventure to a kid who is bit stuck. Surviving in foreign country without your family and coming up ways to solve everyday issues in foreign culture can give a great boost to selof-confidence and motivation.

 

[GuideMe]

Hello "A Dad", welcome to the forum. I hear what you are saying. I understand the guilt and hypocrisy you are fighting against, with in yourself and until you make that right, you can't even begin to deal with your sons issues. I get it, I really get it. I don't have a lot of time, but I will offer what I can, and then get back later when I do have the time.

I am a true believer in Karma. I do believe we have to live out our own Karma, when Karma says so and for how long Karma says so. I think you might feel the same way. I believe the only way it can end sooner is if we make right what we did wrong in the past. But first, you must figure out if it was even wrong. Was it really wrong that you were waiting (even if you knew it or not) to find a reason to really live which was your lovely wife who you must adore? I don't think so, but maybe it is. Is it wrong not to become your own man before 27? Yes, in a way. It depends. I really don't remember if you made your parents life hard or didn't help them around the house. I am going to assume you didn't. Anyway, I think you know where this is going. I think it is so true that we live out what we gave out until will find the lesson, repent for it and then fix it. It's the cycle of life. You need to fix this within yourself first. I get the mountain your up against because if you REALLY address this, it's going to change everything that you ever knew or believed about yourself and about life. I think that is what is holding you back and that's what you don't want to face at the end of the day, not disciplining or going at with your son. You know you can't make your son do anything because you know it goes much deeper than making him do something, so it's pointless. You know this whether you are aware of it or not, its definitely in your subconscious, though, that is for certain.

I don't know which way to point you or where to start. All I have is a guess, which is, I think you should have gotten your life together for yourself and not your wife or anyone else. I think, that's where the problem may lye , but again, I really don't know. I thought really hard about it and that's all I could really come up with. I tried. But you know yourself and your life better than anyone else and since you stated that you are struggling with the hypocrisy and the idea of Karma of it all, maybe seek out some spiritual assistance, seriously, it may help and I hope it does.

 

[A dad]

Can you talk with your son? Actually have meaningful conversations or are those likely to end up to yelling and frustration for both parties? Have you discussed about what his dreams and plans are and does he have any? How about his social interaction? Does he have friends, does he spend time with them and what are they doing? Without you telling the country you are from, I of course can't be sure, but I will guess that finding a job will not be something you can demand from your son like our US board members tend to do. My neck of woods is not in the same situation like some of the Mediterranean countries, but even here "have a job in on month time" would be undoable even for the most PCist kid without skills and education. In some countries, like for example Spain, it would be undoable for a kid with relevant education and work experience (like for example for registered nurse or even a MD.) Things are bad right now.

Its true that times are different now when I started growing up I found and was able to find a job in a week, true it was not a good job or one where you can have a career but I was 27 and it was just the begining. I wonder now if I decided to grow up now and I was 27 could I find any job if I have no higher education or work experience or both. There are less jobs now and the later you wait without developing any skills the lower are your chances to find a job in anything. This is a thing I am very afraid that my son the longer he waits the less chance he has in finding a job. Now it is his choice not to grow up but at some point I am afraid that society will not let him. Also I am aware that when I was young supporting yourself was way easier, yeah it was better in that way at least. But things have changed and its harder.

I don't know which way to point you or where to start. All I have is a guess, which is, I think you should have gotten your life together for yourself and not your wife or anyone else. I think, that's where the problem may lye , but again, I really don't know. I thought really hard about it and that's all I could really come up with. I tried. But you know yourself and your life better than anyone else and since you stated that you are struggling with the hypocrisy and the idea of Karma of it all, maybe seek out some spiritual assistance, seriously, it may help and I hope it doe

Yes it was not for me and after the girl I grew up for left me I just went with the flow and continued with my life I build because that is what I was left with. I never valued independence a lot or better said never needed for many of my needs to be fulfilled to grow up or better said until I wanted to fulfill some needs higher then the ones on Maslow's hierarchy of needs that where not fulfilled and I needed to grow up to do that. Over the years I analyzed myself a lot.

 

[Marcie Mac]

I don't believe boys reach a level of emotional maturity till their mid to late 20's, Mine have always had an offer of a roof over their head, and food. No cars, no money given to you to party (in saying that he was known to help himself to my money at times). I have never been a big proponent of tossing kids to the curb to sink or swim - leaving home at 17 myself, going 3,000 miles and having no one, I am just thankful I had a little common sense and the universe was looking out for me. Since the apple didn't fall far from the tree in my case, I thought it best to let him live at home, keep the bs to a minimum (I seem to have a higher tolerance than most for it), and hope I could be of an influence till his emotional and chronological age caught up. I can't really pinpoint when he "got it" - maybe seeing most of his friends were moving on up and having jobs and were not able to party in the day, he was tired of not having money, he realized he really needed a GED after all, rapping was not going to make him rich LOL He went thru a lot of part time jobs along the way to make money here and there, but finally found one that didn't have a "boss" attached to it that he absolutely loves to do (building computers, designing web sites, computer repair - (and he is all self taught) and he was around 27 when all this happened.

Both of my boys still live at home - it seems to be the only part of my Italian heritage I didn't reject (being female) but it is really really expensive to live in Los Angeles. Youngest did move out for a year, and came back and has plans to move to San Diego with a friend sometime this summer.

Marcie

 

[InsaneCdn]

I don't believe boys reach a level of emotional maturity till their mid to late 20's

There's a fair body of research that shows that nobody really gets close to maturity until somewhere between 25 and 30. Some aspects of immaturity show up in young men, and different aspects in young women... although nothing is cast in stone.

 

[A dad]

We show immaturity even at 50 . Do any of you ever noticed how many immature moments we had during our lives? It makes you wonder if we are ever gonna be truly mature.

 

[BusynMember]

I'm silly very goofy at 61.

Goofy doesn't mean immaturity.

I personally am used to U.S. norms and would be mortified if my kids were still at home. After all, we can't live forever and then they are on their own. they need to be prepared.

But you have to take your culture into account. Here, it is not socially acceptable really for grown kids to live with Dad or Mom too long. Women may laugh at the idea of a ,say 24 year old living off Dad and Mom and not date the homebound adult (at least responsibility women). I can't imagine allowing anyone over 22, and that 22 year old would have to be working full time and paying rent, to live at home. But I live by the norms in the United States and very much find pride in personal independence. All of my kids are out on their own and doing well. Only my eighteen year old, who is in college, is in any way dependent on us financially.

I am very proud of my adult children. They can stand on their own. You don't have to be at full maturity to be able to reach toward independence and not ask your parents to support you.

Anyhow, good luck, whatever you decide is ok Not knowing where you live, and, like most Americans, knowing very little about cultures in Italy or Greece or anywhere outside of North America, I don't really know what you mean by laid-back. I do know that some countries governments will pay you stipends for kids at home or kids in college. We don't get money here so unless one is rich, which most of us are not, it is important for our over eighteens to get ready to support themselves.

We also get little in retirement from the government so many of us have to save our pennies for when we do retire. Not everyone has been able to save, has a pension, or anything more than the small social security we get after retirement at age sixty-six. And, trust me, most of our grown kids do not come home to take care of us in our old age. Some do by choice, but it is not considered a bad thing if you do not or can not. Often our grown kids live very far from us, since our country is so big.

In the U.S., we really do have to stand on our own two feet. And all of my kids are doing that for which I am grateful.If your culture/country is different then you think about your options that YOU have and do what makes sense in YOUR circumstances.

 

[Marcie Mac]

Just to clarify A Dad, both my sons work - one works for a attorneys who work with the state and is in IT, and youngest owns his own computer business, plus works for an attorney in IT department part time. Both are self supporting and both contribute to the household (one more in a monetary way than the other) and hold more of a roommate status rather than kid status. Both of them really like the area, but apartment buildings are not allowed as the city planning didn't want any type of a transient population. Houses are available for rent but are exorbitant rent wise. Not to mention there are very very few young adults who both of them went to school with who do not live with their parents - usually just when they marry. There were a lot of suggestions over the years for the youngest and he tried out jobs like people try on clothes. Seems once he mastered it, he was no longer interested. Computers is the only thing that held his interest.

At the end of the day, you know your son best and there is something out there that he will gravitate to - eventually LOL

<arcoe

 

[A dad]

Ubdate:My youngest is now working abroad renovating a apartment and he is almost working there for 2 months now he got the job trough a connection of my oldest and from the scarce talking to him I understood that he enjoys the job as he has lots of fun with his coworkers and he says its the bottom jobs of cleaning and scraping and carrying the debris as he is never yelled by his boss for doing a bad job. Now I do know what his plans are when he will come back but its a huge improvement and I feel relieved even if he says he plans on doing this as long as his body can take it.

 

[pasajes4]

Good for him.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Physical work is sometimes good for "our" kids... but it seems it has to be their choice.