Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by klmno, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I applied for CS 6 mos ago and went to an appointment (required) 4 mos ago to tell them and show them exactly the same things I had to provide when I applied- yet they say if you don't go to the appointment, they won't put the case thru. OK. This afternoon I called to give them my new address for my filing CS and for them to contact me because I know they need to establish the amount for me to pay while difficult child is in Department of Juvenile Justice. And while on the phone, I asked the status of my claim against difficult child's father. Nothing. They have done N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

    That was the calmest I ever tried to be while speaking my mind to someone but I have to tell you, it really rubs me the wrong way that this man can just walk away for 15 1/2 years while I support this child and they don't care. They don't care that it's me that has shown up in court, hired attnys paid restitution for difficult child (although some is still owed, the majority of about $5000 total is paid), and after losing my home, career, etc and diligently paying his CS which was calculated as me making min wage even though I was unemployed and filing BK while he was in Department of Juvenile Justice last year, they immediately file against me again this year and although they now will file again against difficult child's father, they NEVER have gone after him to actually pay. He's breaking the law- why don't they care about that? I say that because I know they at least send it to the state he's in when it's Department of Juvenile Justice that files instead of "just the custodial parent" so I am sure he's been made aware and has refused to step forward for a parentage test or CS court or anything else. That is illegal isn't it?
  2. Jena

    Jena New Member

    ummm yea it's illegal for him not to pay child support as long as you have a support order open still. infact here in new york they garnish tax return checks, suspend licenses, etc. how much are you back owed at this point if you dont' mind me asking? has he ever paid at all? and you have every right to be ******.

    i went down the same exact road with easy child many years ago, yet had to let it go for various reasons just wasn't the right thing to do for her pursue the child support.
  3. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    well that's the problem- they aren't doing enough to actually get him in a courtroom to have cs ordered. They are apparently notifying him that he needs to go or contact dss and he does neither. If he diputes paternity he can request and take a test, but he won't go that far. Thay send him a letter, he ignores it, they don't pursue it. That's when it's Department of Juvenile Justice filing- when it's my claim they apparently don't even bother notifying the state he's in much less send him the letter. Me on the other hand- they would threaten everything under the sun if I didn't pay for difficult child's support while he's in Department of Juvenile Justice. And yes, they know where he is. He's been under his state's dss for over 20 years now because he did this sort of koi for his daughter who was about 13yo when difficult child was conceived- and dss carefully warned me about it all which is why I left the state to have difficult child.
  4. Jena

    Jena New Member

    ok i think i get it now. so did you prove paternity years ago or no? I did yet than due to him threatening me to see easy child who he didnt' wanna c just wanted me to let him off the hook i did on all counts thru court.

    what are the guildelines in your state for this sort of thing? the laws I mean. I know new york's yet i dont' there. it seems to me even if you hadnt' proven paternity you can file to have it done, if that's what you want to do in order to get the back owed child support.
  5. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I don't know how it is in other states but here, if there is no valid court order in place, there is no such thing as back child support! When we divorced, my ex dragged his feet over the paperwork as long as he could possibly stretch it out and when he finally did sign the papers, child support started THAT day, not when he left! He paid nothing from January through July of that year and it was just fine with them!

    And here, it's a well known fact that if you're not receiving any kind of State aid, they could care less if you ever got the child support or not! I was working full time when we separated, supporting our son on my little paycheck. Even when the court order was in place and he still didn't pay, the most the local child support office would do is write letters to him which he ignored. But if you are receiving any kind of State aid at all to help you raise your children, it usually becomes a whole different story! I don't know about unemployment but here, if you get any kind of welfare, food stamps, housing assistance or any other kind of goverment aid, they will go after those "daddies" to get their money back! That happened to my niece whose ex never paid a dime in support for either one of their kids - until she applied for and was approved for food stamps! When faced with the choice of either paying his child support or going to jail, he finally decided he'd better get a real job and start paying. Not that he was one bit concerned about the kids, he just didn't want to go to jail!
  6. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    k, there are companies out there who will go chase him down and get the court stuff done for you. They will take a % of whatever the back amount due is, the big first check, and then that is it. They don't collect from YOU, only from him. A lot of parents don't want to because they don't want to give a big % of the $$ to anyone, and because the child support enforcement people will tell them they do the same thing for free. The problem is that the enforcement people don't really do much of anything for ANYONE other than send letters. In some states they do even less than that (as you have seen). in my humble opinion it would be better to have one of these people take it to court on contingency and take 40% or even 50% of the first few thousand dollars you are awarded than to keep waiting for the state to do nothing and to continue to get nothing.

    I do know a woman who did her own enforcement via the courts in Cincy. She took photos of her ex driving a brand new pickup with his boss's company name on the side, even tracked ownership of the vehicle to him via the VIN and the registration bureau. Then she went to the judge with the photos, the registration info, and got the court to order copies of his bank statements and his boss's company records. He was the father of 4 of her kids including one who was incredibly sick with diabetes with hundreds of thousands of dollars of unpaid support while he earned 100K a year under the table, kept assets hidden IN HER CHILDREN'S NAMES like his house and car. yes, the judge already went after his wife for hiding assets so the man put their home and car in her sick child's name. The child for whom he refused to keep health insurance as ordered by the court, or to pay any of the medical bills or anything else.

    She ended up selling his lovely expensive new home out from under him as conservator of her children's assets by court order. The court ordered the sale and the $$ put into a trust that he could not touch. This judge was on a big tirade against deadbeat parents and did what few judges will do - which is truly enforce the laws. The judge even socked the guys employer with big fines AND turned the records over to both the state income tax dept and the IRS.

    The judge did recommend to many of the parents who were not getting the support that they were ordered that they use the private agencies as long as the fees were all paid by the back amount ordered and NOT paid by the custodial parent.

    I wish a whole lot more could be done in our system to make sure that kids all get the support that is appropriate. Some abuse the system, but most of the abuse is done to the kids and custodial parents.

    I do believe there is a special place in Hades for those who do not pay child support.
  7. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    BINGO! His daughter was in that state and her mother had to have state assistance while raising her so the state "claimed" they went after him but honestly, sending a cop to the door to knock so the person can look out the window and see who it is then walk out the back door isn't very effective. (He told me himself this is how he dodged them for YEARS). So, being that it's this state's Department of Juvenile Justice, they will do minimally less than that- the state assistance isn't costing them as much as it would if difficult child lived in that state but since there are state "agreements' they might put on a show of an effort. But me- oh they told me years ago that unless I hired a private investigator to somehow force him into court, I could probably forget it. Fine- but this state could force it and it really irks me that they don't. I'm not surprised though- this state used to have a law on the books for YEARS that if a child was born out of wedlock and one of the parents was not a resident of this state, they would NOT pursue any legal actions, including CS, against that parent.

    Many times- with stuff like this as well as with the attitudes towards MH issues and MH providers seeming so ignorant, too- I really can't believe that we still aren't in a society like the 1950's.
  8. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I'm not surprised...I had similar battles here trying to get the county to enforce the support order. They could care less because I wasn't on any kind of county aid and Useless Boy was in a different county. Even though he was working, and I informed the county of his home and work info, they still dragged their feet. I remember calling one day to give them his new work address, so they could send yet another wage garnishment letter, and they said the address wasn't enough, they needed the phone number, too. I lost my temper (big surprise) and hollered at the worker, "This is how you get the number. You dial 1-415-555-1212, and when the operator comes on, you ask for Palo Alto, and THEN you ask for...and why the H am I doing your work for you? You're the District Attorney's office, it's your JOB to enforce court orders!"

    That helped for about six months, until Useless Boy changed jobs again. Sigh.
  9. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Thanks, Susie. Maybe I'll see if I can find someone who'd pursue it for a % of the CS. I am not asking for back CS.

    in my humble opinion, there's a place in hades for ANY person who's sane who refuses to acknowledge that they conceived their own flesh and blood child. I couldn't turn my back on any child, much less one that I conceived or took responsibility for thru adoption. That doesn't mean I don't have my moments with difficult child-- but the day will never come when I don't want to make sure he's alive, know what's going on in his life, etc.
  10. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    It's really shameful how child support is handled in a lot of areas. In my case, even after the court order was entered and they finally started taking the CS out of his paycheck, he still didn't pay the other things he was supposed to. Our divorce decree stated that he was to pay half of all our sons medical and dental expenses that weren't covered by insurance. Of course, as the custodial parent, I had to pay these expenses up front and then it was left up to me to have to collect it from him. And of course, he never paid a dime of it, even after our son had lots of necessary dental work done. The child support office would do nothing until he owed at least $500, and after he reached $500 in arrears, they would send him another useless letter that he ignored. And if my son ever needed medical care, the form I had to sign giving permission for him to be treated also stated that by signing, I was agreeing that I was personally responsible for the bill! I always wrote a little disclaimer next to my signature saying I was responsible for only HALF, then I'd write his name and address and say that he was responsible for the other half.

    I don't understand either how anyone could choose NOT to be responsible for a child that they brought in to this world and have no interest in their welfare. My nieces ex never paid one dime towards their oldest sons support until he was four years old, and then he only did it because he had to or he'd go to jail. He never sees him and he only saw the younger one once, right after he was born - he's 21 months old now. In their case, the kids are much better off for NOT having him in their lives but they still need his financial support. And this jerk has a third child too, an eight year old girl that he fathered before he hooked up with my niece, and he's never supported her either!
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2010
  11. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Donna, some people I know will take the court order to the doctor's and have it added to file and bill him his half directly. Doesn't always work, but might not hurt to try.
    Only reason I managed to get support ordered was because MS went after him for it when we lived there and went on assistance and his home state issued the actual order. Took a while to get it properly enforced, mostly because he either didn't have a job, worked under the table, had too much taken out already for previous orders, and because our state is almost a year behind in paperwork backlog. It's not much, but I hate that I count on it sometimes because it can be intermittent.
  12. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I can tell you as an employer in this state, they do a darn good job of getting the money from dead beat parents. In this state employers are required to report all new hires on a state website (including sss#, etc). That way the state knows about the hire before they even see the quarterly unemployment report we file (which includes the earnings and sss# of all our employees)! Now, it still takes some time to process the paperwork at the state level, but I can't tell you how many guys I have garnished for back child support. I do believe some states place more priorities on child support judgements than others. Too bad bio doesn't live here....

  13. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    They dss worker who originally worked with me when I had to start paying last year while difficult child was in Department of Juvenile Justice told me that when another state is involved, it all boils down to how much the dss worker assigned to the case in this state stays on the other state to keep pursuing it. The state does go after those parents who aren't paying while the state is putting out money to help take care of the child- but when it's another state putting out the money and the child doesn't live in the state where the non-custodial parent lives, it is much easier for to push those cases to the back burner and keep pulling the cases that are costing that particular state up to the front of the line.

    LDM- that method works fine for catching people who work legitimate jobs. But those who work under the table or wheel & deal to make a living don't have that kind of paper trail. This is another reason I'd be a sitting duck if I tried to sneak out of paying (which I wouldn't) but he can keep walking and never be held accountable.

    I am going to ask DSS if they will allow me to pay a little lower amount than the calculation chart suggests though, since I am just starting over and have to establish a home for difficult child while paying CS for him to live in Department of Juvenile Justice at the same time and mainly because I paid $150 more each month last year while being unemployed than I would have paid if they'd calculated it as me being unemployed, even though the court and DSS both knew I didn't have a job. I figure I have nothing to lose by asking.
  14. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    And another thing- why am I paying 100% of the CS while difficult child is in Department of Juvenile Justice just because people are too lax about going after difficult child's father? They file against him too and then make hhim prove he's not the parent when Department of Juvenile Justice and dss are involved so they should be calculating my amount based on two parents contributing, not just one, in my humble opinion.
  15. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    K, that's what I was going to ask you! Why are you being held responsible for 100% of the amount and why are they not going after his father to pay half? They just do whatever is easier for them!
  16. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    My oldests father was court ordered to pay child support even though I lived in VA, got my temporary custody order in VA, and he had moved to FL. I think I made the move to do that faster than white on rice...lol. He left one week and I was sitting in a court room the next week to protect myself in case he got a wild hair and tried to come back. He had already tried to steal Billy one time and I wasnt letting that happen again.

    Now, Bill was only ordered to pay based on the fact that he didnt have a job at the time. Judge gave him the measily amount of $62 bucks for the first two months and then was ordered to have found something - anything - and it would increase to $126. Big whoop! Supposedly they assumed he would find a better job along the way and the order would go up. Well, Bill never did find a job, never even paid the $62 for the first two months much less the $126. I do believe that one time he was found and had to pay one payment to get out of jail.

    He remarried after he finally consented to divorcing me in 1986. We were married in Nov 1980. We split up in 1982...early. Billy was born in April of 81. I kicked him out in Feb 82.

    He had 4 more kids with his second wife. They ran from CS the entire time. She worked and he didnt. They tried living in cults to hide him. He worked for his parents who owned their own multi- million dollar business and they paid them under the table so he wouldnt have to pay child support. Some grandparents huh?

    Finally, he ended up divorcing his second wife and she had me subpeona'd to write a notarized statement about what he had done to me and how he had never paid child support. They finally got him. Last I heard, my child support case is showing up on his record. Maybe, just maybe, we might get around to getting paid after he pays out his 4 kids from her...lol. Who knows.
  17. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    DJ- since his ex helped him dodge his legal requirement to pay you CS before she even qualified to get it from him, I think your portion should get paid out of hers now- not after the CS gets paid for the younger kids. I seriouslly doubt either state would make difficult child's father pay entire amount of CS for difficult child before paying what he owes on his daughter first because that order was in effect first.

    But that story sounds pretty familiar. difficult child's father had a second wife who he had just split from when I met him. She had covered him like that for 10 years to keep him from getting caught for not paying CS on his daughter (from first wife). I think he intentionally got me pregnant because he was trying to set me up to support him and hide him thinking I'd do it if he convinced me he'd be around for the baby that way. Of course I didn't know about all the previous CS issues and so forth until after I was pregnant and he told me and said I'd have to pay off the CS he owed on the daughter if I wanted him around for this baby. Well, you see how well that manipulative tactic worked with me. It is beyond me why any woman would cover a man from paying his CS- if he is eluding police to prevent paying it for the first child, he'll do it to get out of paying it for subsequent children. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. And he claimed that the daughter wasn't his but refused to take the test as long as he could, too, until they finally caught up with him and forced him. That's another typical thing dead beat dads do that I can't believe people fall for- if it was going to make a difference in how they treated the baby or took care of it, they would be beating down the door to find out if the baby is biologically theirs. If they are claiming it's not but run from taking the test, then they will never care about that baby, either way.
  18. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Florida big on ordering support because until federal titles a state gets so much per dollar of ordered and collected support towards their state's social security, ergo FL tends to order higher support and collect more often. Florida also pays the oldest child first and orders the most for the oldest (I'm doing this go-round since all 3 of my ex's support cases are in Florida and it's where I'm from, too). Florida does NOT take into account younger children when determining support. Mine will get her money after the older two get theirs, even though I'm the only one he's ever married! When they grab tax returns for back support it's the same way, FL distributes to the eldest first, if there's any left it goes to the next one, etc etc etc.
    I don't know if this only applies to child under 18 or not, but I know once a child is on their own they can sue the other parent for the full amount still owed to them.
  19. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I'm hoping my son can sue and go after his father when he turns 18yo, assuming he'll still want to. I'd be happy if difficult child got enough from him to pay for a chunk of education and any remaining restitution difficult child might owe at that time. I don't care if I see a dime if he'd at least be forced to do that much- half whatever the courts have made me responsible for that difficult child racked up, half of what Department of Juvenile Justice expects thru CS, and a chunk of difficult child's higher education which still would be less than if he'd paid CS for 18 years to me. I'm just way more than tired of feeling like everyone's doormat when it comes to paying for difficult child things and people, including difficult child, acting like I'm a money-tree.
  20. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    A friend of mine taught her daughter about using her as a money tree by cashing out her entire check and sitting her down with it and having her sort the money to the bills in order of importance. Once those were out of the way, she counted how much was left, and it wasn't much. Handling the actual cash and bills really helped her understand better why her mommy couldn't just run out and buy everything and that just because there's still checks in the checkbook doesn't mean there's money in the bank. Her daughter was in 4th grade when they did this, might be worth a go, sometimes having it so tangible does make it a lot more real to them.