Sites on Bullying and Emotional Abuse

[Copabanana]

"It's not your performance; it's your heart that matters."

Our mother's failed at this.

how we have learned from whatever it was, and know now how to handle it better.

They failed this, too.

That we are perfect, are here on purpose.

This, too.

That we are prized possessions, and that we deserve every good thing and more, forever.

This, too.

Joel Osteen went on to say that if we have been taught not to believe in ourselves, not to like ourselves, we project those emotions onto others and validate what was a wrong belief in the first place.

He said, understand that you do that and stop that.

This is what our mothers did. They could never stop it. Maybe my Mom did some, but it could be because of the distance between us. Nothing really cost her as long as we communicated by phone.

I am thinking about my earlier post. Was it on this thread? Where I answered my sister. Her bullying.

And I am wondering, if I could really do that, speak out in the here and now. I wonder if I would have been afraid. And that is what the stumbling block is. At least part of it.

The stunned part.
The disbelief.
And the fear.

How to overcome all three, in the exact moment it happens.....

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I will not tolerate this disrespect. You will not roll your eyes about me in my space. You can choose to leave my apartment now if you want to continue with that eye rolling behavior. What you say or do with your husband in your space is your business. What you do in my space, is mine.

Yes. To know it and name it correctly. Disrespect. Which brings up the whole issue of the nature of the relationship, and of intent.

Or we could say (Copa this is the flavor of my sister, too!) so, we could say: "Did you know eye rolling is an expression of ridicule requiring an innocent ally, your new husband in this case, to choose sides? That you are tricking him into complicity in your contemptuous, inexcusable actions? Why are you doing that, here in my home at a luncheon given to honor all of us? Why are you such a difficult sister, always insisting there has to be a bag man? Someone always and forever insisting that everything be cheapened, be made ugly? I believed you had grown beyond these uglinesses. I did not invite you here, to my home, so you could play pointless games like a two year old brat with no morals and no manners. Next time, we will arrange to meet for lunch somewhere in the red light district; then we will both know, right from the start, that our intentions in coming together are to play cheap, evil tricks validated by recruiting our innocent husbands through the eye rolling ploy. Rather than the fine luncheon I honored you with today, we will order from the concession machine in the motel lobby. Something poisoned, something quick and dirty and as uselessly cheap as your intentions toward me."

So...your sister is always angry with you, too.

What are they angry about I wonder, Copa.

Yes and I would add too, "How dare you turn your husband, this innocent bystander who will learn your toxicity all too soon on his own, into your ally in that same, ugly game you are forever insisting we play! How dare you require this innocent's complicity in depersonalizing and degrading me! Will you never grow up? You were raised better than to do what you're doing."

"Husband, it was very nice to meet you. Know that I wish you both well, but I ask you to leave, now. Here is your wife's purse. Thank you for coming. I went to a great deal of effort to honor this event, and had hoped for friendship and even, love between us. I am sorry my sister has behaved so boorishly."

"Thank you again, for coming."

Because we know that the husbands will find out for themselves what they've married into. Remember my posting that, on the day the photographer was here to take the four generation picture of my mom, my sister, her daughter, and her grand...my sister snapped at her husband to just go sit on the sofa.

And he did it.

And he stayed right there, too.

Except that, I was cooking? And I went to turn around and there he was, right behind me, watching what I was doing. Not in a bad way. I just hadn't known he had the chutzpa to get up from the sofa when my sister told him to sit there, like a dog or something.

And that too turned into how hard D H and I worked to make dinner.

And how my sister would have it catered.

Cedar

I very much liked your description of the feel of your sister, Copa.

That is the feel of my sister, too.

How truly extraordinary the sister would prefer the typical tourist tour of a city like San Francisco when you lived there, and knew all the great things to see.

Remember my posting about the new husband's pocket notebook, where he had listed all the things we might do in nearby Dallas. And my sister refused.

Huh.

Wonder what the husband's really think.

Well, we already know what they come to think. That is why the sister's are forever getting divorced.

I wanted to add too that professors especially are prone to arrogance, because they hold the power of the grade. It has nothing to do with them. If they are great teachers, they are not arrogant. This is true.

Arrogance pretty much rules out greatness.

I have seen that in nurses, and in doctors, too.

The good ones are never arrogant.

They are pleased, and fully engaged. Sort of like Joel said, this morning: "Glory to glory, they move through the day."

I added the last part.

:O)

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I posted a series of sites on shame and self betrayal for us on a new thread, Copa.

That way, those who come here in the future can find them easily.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

How to overcome all three, in the exact moment it happens.....

I think that as we heal the initial toxicities, we will not be vulnerable to new ones. We will not experience an atomic bomb explosion of old, useless shame. We will have rehearsed and rewritten the traumas into something reflecting our changed awarenesses.

And we will be whole, and healed, and strong...and like every coward, like every bully everywhere, those who so freely attack us now, secure in the knowledge that we will not attack them, will not attack in future. And if they do, we will recognize it for what it is and lower the boom and it will be great.

We will freely channel our inner Donald.

***

It all ties in to that toxic shame we were hurt into.

Heal that (which we are) and everything will be different.

D H is so quick to see and address any slight you would not even believe it.

That is how we will be, too.

I am believing M is the same. Where we suffer in silence because we are frantically trying to trace what we did to cause someone to react as they have, M and D H are like, "WITCH, PLEASE."

:O)

Cedar

Sisters are such a big influence on how we see ourselves.

How crummy we got bad ones.

 

[Copabanana]

D H is so quick to see and address any slight you would not even believe it.

That is how we will be, too.

I am believing M is the same. Where we suffer in silence because we are frantically trying to trace what we did to cause someone to react as they have, M and D H are like, "WITCH, PLEASE."

Yes and no. M is very, very kind and conciliatory. If he can be flexible, and concede at no cost to himself, he will do it.

I really hate his generosity. Because after all, he does not have much now. So his impulse has been, that I be generous. And I do not want to be. He is learning now. That I have to take a hard line. Because everybody wants everything.

M sees no benefit in confrontation unless somebody is acting badly towards him and then he is unmerciful and goes for the jugular. Like Donald. He will attack two times harder. Especially me. He will not tolerate being treated with disrespect. Not for one second.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I really hate his generosity. Because after all, he does not have much now. So his impulse has been, that I be generous. And I do not want to be. He is learning now. That I have to take a hard line. Because everybody wants everything.

That is true. I am the generous one who has nothing, in D H and my relationship. D H says "You need to learn everybody wants everything they can get from you in this world. They do not respect you for it. You will not respect them, for having put you in that position in the first place, and then, for having taken your stuff that you need, and worked to have, and budgeted to keep. You need to do something about that."

Good for you for standing up, Copa. I am like, just barely standing up but not really. I actually would send money to my sister when she told a sad enough story. And that was when we had two little kids and she had none.

But then, pretty much everyone gives my sister money. It's an extraordinary thing, really. I think it's a game to her.

M sees no benefit in confrontation unless somebody is acting badly towards him and then he is unmerciful and goes for the jugular. Like Donald. He will attack two times harder. Especially me. He will not tolerate being treated with disrespect. Not for one second.

Well, that is how we will be, too. I think part of my problem is that I don't think anyone should be attacked. D H says everyone does, who does not treat us with respect.

He strikes back really hard at me too, Copa.

You believe it?!?

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

My quote machine is not working again.

"Glory to glory they move through the day." That is how I am at work.

My sister picks docile men that she can control. This husband is like a lap dog. Yes, Honey. OK, Honey. I cannot see him as even reacting to when she demeans him. It is really something to behold.

Or maybe it is he is really allied against me.

The one exception was when he was present in my mother's house, with me and my attorney. It was to decide on a distribution of stuff. My sister was on the phone to him.

He said to her, your sister, really seems like this is hurtful to her. I think we need to bring this to an end.

 

[Copabanana]

He strikes back really hard at me too, Copa.

You believe it?!?

Yes, I live it.

Except as the months go by there is less and less of this.

He sticks his tongue out at me, so I am less afraid and defensive. That helps. So that I do not see everything through the lens that I am at fault and responsible. How he was able to see this, I do not know.

Then, I am less on him. Like this job he is doing. I swear, if he is earning $1 an hour with how low he bid, I would be surprised. And still mistreated and degraded. In the past I would have gotten upset. Which he would feel to be demeaning and disrespecting and controlling and undermining of him.

Now I keep my mouth shut and stay in a supporting role.

The one thing I said was yesterday. This stupid Argentine guy got a really phenomenal price on his floor. Like eighty cents a sq foot to install a custom tile floor. Delicate tile. Beautiful, custom work. And unbeknownst to M his helper did not fasten some baseboards well. And the Argentine withheld $250 of the final payment so that M would be forced to redo the defective work.
This insulted M because he does the work from pride. He will work for nothing to do the job correctly. He does not need to be strong armed.

So I said, instead of withholding the money he should give you a two thousand dollar tip. He got work that was worth 15k to 20k for 2k. Does he not see that?

And M said. That has to come from the client's own will to do the right thing. That he was going to talk to him. Because he does not like the flavor of this right now. (I think he is referring to being held to do the work...by the withholding of money.) Because actually M is the type of person to basically do the work...and let the man keep the money. To show who he is. That he cannot be controlled or diminished.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

And M said. That has to come from the client's own will to do the right thing. That he was going to talk to him. Because he does not like the flavor of this right now. (I think he is referring to being held to do the work...by the withholding of money. Because actually M is the type of person to basically do the work...and let the man keep the money. To show who he is. That he cannot be controlled or diminished.

That is how son is, too.

"Glory to glory they move through the day." That is how I am at work.

Soon now, you will be moving through whatever you will do next in that way, Copa.

My sister picks docile men that she can control. This husband is like a lap dog. Yes, Honey. OK, Honey. I cannot see him as even reacting to when she demeans him. It is really something to behold.

Our sisters are similar in this, too. Remember my posting about my sister telling him to just sit there on the sofa? And he did it!

And oh yes, Copa. He will have been very strictly aligned against you.

She will have seen to it.

I think the husbands are uncomfortable in that role, as they begin to see the differences between what they were told and who we are.

He sticks his tongue out at me, so I am less afraid and defensive. That helps. So that I do not see everything through the lens that I am at fault and responsible. How he was able to see this, I do not know.

D H never tells me until later what he knew, all along.

It's extremely disconcerting.

:O)

It is interesting to unravel the why behind our fear of vulnerability. It is amazing, to find the depths, the willingness to wait it through with and for us and for our sakes, in the men we love.

Humbling.

It's like falling in love for the first time.

Which, I suppose, is what it is.

Then, I am less on him. Like this job he is doing. I swear, if he is earning $1 an hour with how low he bid, I would be surprised. And still mistreated and degraded. In the past I would have gotten upset. Which he would feel to be demeaning and disrespecting and controlling and undermining of him.

In the past, I had been through so many changes having to do with son's trade. It is only recently, as the shame piece is falling apart for me, that I have been able to see that what he does is extraordinary. He knows what he's doing. He does it well. He is as likely to tell the employer to stick his job as not. He will not stay for the money.

Ever.

He will stay to learn, or to teach, or to complete a job that is his. He sends pictures of pieces he is especially proud of.

But. In response to all that lovely information you posted for me?

Son instructs me that if I am willing to send $50,000 he will do it.

He says that is what it costs to begin as a contractor. That it is not just the licensing, but the cost of doing business until you are in business, and establish a reputation, and begin making money.

He must know what he is talking about. Though certainly neither you nor I thought about it that way, I think he was offended.

*** That is okay. I am his mom. ***

That is how I saw it Copa, before I saw how son saw.

He was offended.

I will apologize to him, Copa. I thought I was the one who should be offended when I read his response. Now, I see the arrogance in responding as I did. Now, writing it out for you, I can see where he might have felt I was disparaging him.

Now? I see it so clearly, Copa. I'm embarrassed.

I just sent him the same things I posted here about the book I was reviewing for my Book Club tonight. Like nothing happened.

I will apologize to him after I complete this post.

How cool I could see it this way, Copa. I was really quite miffed that he was not pleased. I thought he was being cranky about the $50,000. I was all set to wonder whether buying the information he needed would be enabling or not. I was like, oh, you difficult child, you.

For heaven's sake.

Now I keep my mouth shut and stay in a supporting role.

That is what I will do with my son. No wonder he doesn't talk to me sometimes.

This insulted M because he does the work from pride. He will work for nothing to do the job correctly. He does not need to be strong armed.

That is how son is, too. I will keep my mouth quiet too. Even in my thoughts, I will stop thinking he should be something better. He is a good man.

I could only see that he threw himself away because he didn't go to school; because he hadn't become who I wanted my son to be.

I'm ashamed of myself for thinking that way about my own child. Talk about arrogance!

It must be difficult to be my son.

I always blame him for everything, and never have seen my part in it, before.

Huh.

I will think about that. About how to not think about him like that.

Thank you, Copa. This new insight regarding my thinking will help me in my relationship to my son. And probably in my whole life. I really do need to stop seeing him as a little boy or an adolescent. What a sad thing, to know your mom does not respect you as a man. Well, and the sneaky truth is that I am not seeing the good things in the man he is, but only the things I don't like about how he has managed himself in his life.

This is so horribly true a thing, Copa. Someone told me once that a mutual friend of hers and my son had named their son after mine. I was flabbergasted.

Thank you, Copa.

How embarrassing for me. I must be like my mom in that way, in that contemptuous way that I see him. I am horrified at myself.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

Well, Cedar. For a few seconds I felt ashamed that I had given you that information.

And then I said, wait a minute, here.

First, by providing the info we did only what a friend would do. Neutrally provide information. Your son is free to disregard or use, as he decides.

Second, it does not take 50k to set up in business. He is in business already. The cost to get a license will be around couple hundred dollars including the fees and materials.

If he chooses to not pursue it, it is on him. Having a license will not increase his current business expenses. Your son knows that. M wanted to get a license. He has minus zero in funds.

Third, what happened with the info is your son was busted. He was using as an excuse (to himself) the cost of the course.

Fourth, I believe your son sometime down the road, will decide to get his license, and will avail himself of the information.

Fifth, there was learning in this exchange for both of you. You laid out beautifully the learning for you. For your son, I bet he was absolutely floored by your apology; your willingness to see your part, and to empower him; your willingness to cede to him; to honor him, his feelings and competence. His knowing for himself.

Sixth, you did nothing wrong by providing the information. Because by doing this neutral, helpful thing, it propelled the conversation between you powerfully, creating the opportunity for him to define himself and his limits...and for you to listen and to respond. This is a wonderful thing.

In this past week, this is what I have been trying to get across. Cedar, thank you for honoring me with your listening.

The disrespect and judgment I have held for my child, I really want to explore more....

Good job, Cedar.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Well, Cedar. For a few seconds I felt ashamed that I had given you that information.

Oh, no, Copa. To have done that for me was such a fine thing for you to have done. It was my presentation that was wrong. I was like, all cheerful, encouraging mommy: This is how you can become someone we both approve of because we both know you are not happy being the who that you are. Son did respond right away. He said not to worry, that I take everything too seriously and that he wasn't offended.

Fifth, there was learning in this exchange for both of you. You laid out beautifully the learning for you. For your son, I bet he was absolutely floored by your apology; your willingness to see your part, and to empower him; your willingness to cede to him; to honor him, his feelings and competence. His knowing for himself.

Yes!

:O)

Sixth, you did nothing wrong by providing the information. Because by doing this neutral, helpful thing, it propelled the conversation between you powerfully, creating the opportunity for him to define himself and his limits...and for you to listen and to respond. This is a wonderful thing.

Yes.

An amazing thing, Copa.

I felt so badly about myself yesterday. But today, I feel such gratitude to have seen that way I was thinking about my own child. I told him, in my apology, that we love him so much, and that we are doing the best we know.

You are exactly right, Copa. This is huge. It could not possibly have happened in a better way; not for son, and not for me. It was like, painful quickly and gratitude quickly. Plus, I was able not to concentrate on beating myself up for the wrongness in the way I suddenly was able to see that I have been seeing him. I did not desert myself. I was able to know and name the value of the good thing I had seen, and not get stuck in how bad it was to have seen in the ways I had been seeing.

And I knew it when it was happening, Copa and Serenity. I could see myself comforting myself and accepting the truth that, though I had not been perfect again, I was being a good enough mom.

Because I was grateful for having seen it, I could be flexible, could let the goodness of what was learned be the good thing that kept me afloat, instead of falling into contempt for myself.

I really am getting better, and I am so...well, yep. Grateful is the word.

Thankful.

Thankful, and I am not the contemptuous mother, after all.

So many incredible things happened because you took your own time and kindly helped me for his sake, Copa.

Another miracle, then. Truly, they are happening all around us, all the time.

And I never once saw it coming.

Didn't feel much like a miracle while it was happening, though.

Ew.

In this past week, this is what I have been trying to get across. Cedar, thank you for honoring me with your listening.

I just couldn't see it, Copa.

I always do listen, when you post. I have to filter everything, and I can only see how I see until BOOM.

Another layer.

I am so pleased, Copa.

Thank you.

This will change everything, for me and for him.

I do think he was pleased, to realize that I thought enough of him to care whether he would think I was right or wrong in my presentation.

:O)

The disrespect and judgment I have held for my child, I really want to explore more....

You have been exploring it, Copa. You have been trying to tell me, too. I just could not see it.

Now I do.

HA!

Good job, Cedar.

Thank you very much, Copa.



I am proud and happy for myself, too.

It only hurt me for a little while.