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So, how do you know if you're dealing with a sociopath?
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<blockquote data-quote="welcometowitsend" data-source="post: 531568" data-attributes="member: 14356"><p>Thank you all for your replies. You are all very right - he is not manipulative enough to be a sociopath.</p><p></p><p>MWM - Thanks for the link - it was very interesting. Many of those characteristics seem to describe difficult child very well. </p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Disregard for right and wrong - right now he doesn't seem to care - if it feels good or keeps girlfriend happy then it's right.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Persistent lying or deceit - If his mouth is moving then he is lying - he even has girls he is flirting with on the side that girlfriend doesn't know about - and he is supposedly in love with her.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Using charm or wit to manipulate others - he can be very charming, funny and is smart and super polite. His teachers for the most part love him as do his friends. Although he is polite beyond normal and it puts some people off (like girlfriend's father - he commented on it the other day).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Recurring difficulties with the law - This one does not apply - hope it never does. Except for that one incident when we called the police on him he hasn't had any problems.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Repeatedly violating the rights of others - I think the only rights he violates are those of his family members. He is very careful to respect his friends - and he has lots of friends.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Child abuse or neglect - nope</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Intimidation of others - only immediate family</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Aggressive or violent behaviour - only immediate family</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lack of remorse about harming others - he has zero remorse for anything he has done to his family - not sure about other people.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Impulsive behaviour - yes - he is self indulgent and lacks self control to regulate himself and have balance in his life.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Agitation - Yes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Poor or abusive relationships - only in the last 6 months with husband and I.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Irresponsible work behaviour - Isn't really interested in getting a job right now but takes zero responsibility for chores or help around our house or girlfriend's when he is living there.</li> </ul><p>Those were symptoms for antisocial personality disorder - but I would think if he was antisocial he would be antisocial all the way around, right? - I'm just looking for some answers. </p><p></p><p>I also looked into the asperger's symptoms again and while he did have some trouble with transitions when he was younger and had some issues with social cues when he was small that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. He has quite a lot of friends, his teachers like him, he gets jokes and sarcasm and uses it well. He does have a large vocabulary but that was because we read a lot when he was younger - and he likes to look smart and make other people feel dumb by using big words that he understands and they don't - it's a bit of an ego trip for him. And he has always had issues with fine motor skills but gross motor skills seem to be ok - he's a great skier, learned to ride a bike early, but his handwriting is terrible (but so is mine and my husbands and my daughter's). When he was younger he definitely had a tendency to bore me to tears with conversations about things like the characters from Lord of the Rings or a video game he was into - does that qualify for one-sided obsessive interests? I should clarify about the flat affect - I don't think it's necessarily an asperger's thing but possibly more of a depression or he just doesn't care about participating in the situation so he shuts down. He's not like this with his friends - he's very animated, laughing, smiling, joking around. So he does have some aspergers stuff - not sure if it's just overlapping symptoms from the Tourette's or if he has both. </p><p></p><p>Something else my sister suggested was depression - it does run in our family. She said often depression in males surfaces as aggression and anger - which he seems to have a lot of towards us. Funny because initially the anger was all geared toward husband and now 3 weeks later husband is no longer the horrible abusive father and his aggression is all directed at me. It doesn't seem to be directed towards anyone else although girlfriend's dad says he won't talk to him anymore because he tried to address some issues with difficult child. I guess if difficult child feels like you're not in his corner then he's done with you. </p><p></p><p>He definitely seems to have some cognitive distortion in his thinking. I home schooled him until grade 9 and I wonder if the reason I didn't see distorted thinking was because I was the biggest influence on his thinking. Now that he has this new group of friends (his friends last year were ok) they are his biggest influence. These are kids whose parents don't particularly care what their kids are doing, where they are going or when they come home. So, this is difficult child's new thinking. </p><p></p><p>I looked up the conduct disorder - he doesn't meet that criteria at all. With the exception of his very recent behaviour I only saw him get violent one other time when he was about 7 years old and he got really violent. Kind of scared me - this other kid was teasing, teasing, teasing him and difficult child lost it and just beat him up and even started choking him. I had had enough (the other kids mom wasn't doing anything about it and my words weren't working so we had decided to leave). I think difficult child thought that was unfair that he had to leave because of this other kid and when the other kid did one more thing difficult child went off. I'm not sure what he would have been like if he'd been in school. </p><p></p><p>It is just that so much of his reasoning and rationale just don't make any sense to me - or anyone else that hear's it for that matter. He'll say things like "I'm not riding my bike home because you refuse to pick me up." Or it's not his fault he skipped on Tuesday because he didn't get his homework done on the weekend so he had to skip school to do it. Well, he wasn't doing anything all weekend. Or, it's ok that I stole $5 from the pledges for the 30 hour famine because I had $55 in pledges and I only needed $50 to participate. And he didn't participate because he cares about the charity - he participated because all the kids got to stay up all night, hang out with friends, go midnight bowling and see a movie at 2 in the morning. </p><p></p><p>Maybe the counsellor we are seeing will have some insight. Sorry for going on and on......</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="welcometowitsend, post: 531568, member: 14356"] Thank you all for your replies. You are all very right - he is not manipulative enough to be a sociopath. MWM - Thanks for the link - it was very interesting. Many of those characteristics seem to describe difficult child very well. [LIST] [*]Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder [*]Disregard for right and wrong - right now he doesn't seem to care - if it feels good or keeps girlfriend happy then it's right. [*]Persistent lying or deceit - If his mouth is moving then he is lying - he even has girls he is flirting with on the side that girlfriend doesn't know about - and he is supposedly in love with her. [*]Using charm or wit to manipulate others - he can be very charming, funny and is smart and super polite. His teachers for the most part love him as do his friends. Although he is polite beyond normal and it puts some people off (like girlfriend's father - he commented on it the other day). [*]Recurring difficulties with the law - This one does not apply - hope it never does. Except for that one incident when we called the police on him he hasn't had any problems. [*]Repeatedly violating the rights of others - I think the only rights he violates are those of his family members. He is very careful to respect his friends - and he has lots of friends. [*]Child abuse or neglect - nope [*]Intimidation of others - only immediate family [*]Aggressive or violent behaviour - only immediate family [*]Lack of remorse about harming others - he has zero remorse for anything he has done to his family - not sure about other people. [*]Impulsive behaviour - yes - he is self indulgent and lacks self control to regulate himself and have balance in his life. [*]Agitation - Yes [*]Poor or abusive relationships - only in the last 6 months with husband and I. [*]Irresponsible work behaviour - Isn't really interested in getting a job right now but takes zero responsibility for chores or help around our house or girlfriend's when he is living there. [/LIST] Those were symptoms for antisocial personality disorder - but I would think if he was antisocial he would be antisocial all the way around, right? - I'm just looking for some answers. I also looked into the asperger's symptoms again and while he did have some trouble with transitions when he was younger and had some issues with social cues when he was small that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. He has quite a lot of friends, his teachers like him, he gets jokes and sarcasm and uses it well. He does have a large vocabulary but that was because we read a lot when he was younger - and he likes to look smart and make other people feel dumb by using big words that he understands and they don't - it's a bit of an ego trip for him. And he has always had issues with fine motor skills but gross motor skills seem to be ok - he's a great skier, learned to ride a bike early, but his handwriting is terrible (but so is mine and my husbands and my daughter's). When he was younger he definitely had a tendency to bore me to tears with conversations about things like the characters from Lord of the Rings or a video game he was into - does that qualify for one-sided obsessive interests? I should clarify about the flat affect - I don't think it's necessarily an asperger's thing but possibly more of a depression or he just doesn't care about participating in the situation so he shuts down. He's not like this with his friends - he's very animated, laughing, smiling, joking around. So he does have some aspergers stuff - not sure if it's just overlapping symptoms from the Tourette's or if he has both. Something else my sister suggested was depression - it does run in our family. She said often depression in males surfaces as aggression and anger - which he seems to have a lot of towards us. Funny because initially the anger was all geared toward husband and now 3 weeks later husband is no longer the horrible abusive father and his aggression is all directed at me. It doesn't seem to be directed towards anyone else although girlfriend's dad says he won't talk to him anymore because he tried to address some issues with difficult child. I guess if difficult child feels like you're not in his corner then he's done with you. He definitely seems to have some cognitive distortion in his thinking. I home schooled him until grade 9 and I wonder if the reason I didn't see distorted thinking was because I was the biggest influence on his thinking. Now that he has this new group of friends (his friends last year were ok) they are his biggest influence. These are kids whose parents don't particularly care what their kids are doing, where they are going or when they come home. So, this is difficult child's new thinking. I looked up the conduct disorder - he doesn't meet that criteria at all. With the exception of his very recent behaviour I only saw him get violent one other time when he was about 7 years old and he got really violent. Kind of scared me - this other kid was teasing, teasing, teasing him and difficult child lost it and just beat him up and even started choking him. I had had enough (the other kids mom wasn't doing anything about it and my words weren't working so we had decided to leave). I think difficult child thought that was unfair that he had to leave because of this other kid and when the other kid did one more thing difficult child went off. I'm not sure what he would have been like if he'd been in school. It is just that so much of his reasoning and rationale just don't make any sense to me - or anyone else that hear's it for that matter. He'll say things like "I'm not riding my bike home because you refuse to pick me up." Or it's not his fault he skipped on Tuesday because he didn't get his homework done on the weekend so he had to skip school to do it. Well, he wasn't doing anything all weekend. Or, it's ok that I stole $5 from the pledges for the 30 hour famine because I had $55 in pledges and I only needed $50 to participate. And he didn't participate because he cares about the charity - he participated because all the kids got to stay up all night, hang out with friends, go midnight bowling and see a movie at 2 in the morning. Maybe the counsellor we are seeing will have some insight. Sorry for going on and on...... [/QUOTE]
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So, how do you know if you're dealing with a sociopath?
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