Some Questions

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by 5rznshwy, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. 5rznshwy

    5rznshwy Guest

    Long time lurker here. I had a couple questions since I'm doing some research for a parent of child.

    This child currently has an IEP program laid out for them where they go to class one hour a day and they are also in the 6th grade. The issue that's arising however is that the child can barely make it 30 minutes before they get in trouble and are forced to leave. So much so, the last time they got in trouble, they were suspended almost 2 weeks which to a child of this status, is basically a reward. Also, today, they made it less than 10 minutes before they DEMANDED to come back home. We've also attempted different means such as night school.

    We honestly feel that the school system is doing and trying all the things they can to adjust to the needs of the child, but we can't seem to get the child do their part; after much of these ordeals the child lets us know "it's really not a big deal" and asks us "why are you all complaining about this?" So, we always end up at this point where the child goes, gets in trouble, sits around the house for days, goes back to school, promptly makes trouble, and then we repeat the whole cycle again.

    So, my first questions are these: Does anybody have experience with a situation like this and if so, what are some things you have to done work through it?

    My next question concerns support for children of this stature in different states. The parent feels that where they are now simply does not have enough in the way of support for their child. What we've often wondered is where support is better at. Thus, I wanted to ask, are there are any states in particular that have better support systems in place than the other? Or is the level of assistance about the same across the board in the US?
  2. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Wow - so much wrong with this situation I don't even know where to begin.

    Children with disabilities are entitled to "free and appropriate public education in least restrictive environment" (FAPE in LRE). There is not a chance in Hades that this child is receiving any kind of an education in 1 hour a day of school, especially given that he/she is being sent home early it sounds like more often than not.

    Secondly, a child with an IEP cannot be suspended more than 10 days per school year. Every day the child is sent home early should also be considered a suspended day - though I supposed the school district (school district) could argue that he/she hasn't hit 10 days since he/she is only going an hour a day, but.... it's still beyond ridiculous. In essence, a change of placement has occurred with- that 10th day of suspension and an IEP team mtg should have been held.

    What type of classroom is the child in? Reg. ed, Special Education? I think that obviously the current placement is not working and the school district should be looking at a more appropriate setting, whatever that may entail, up to and including residential placement if no other option works.

    Does the child have an aide? What is the plan for increasing hours of education? What is the plan for compensatory education - at some point, this child is going to have to catch up on lost education.

    I think the parents need to run, not walk, to a really good Special Education advocate and/or attorney. This sounds like a losing proposition for the child and I'm not seeing any chance for him/her to recover lost educational time under this plan.

    I also have to say, it sounds like the kid is a master manipulator, and it's time for the adults/staff/educators to stop letting him/her run the show.

    Just my opinion.
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    What kind of diagnoses does this child have?
    What kinds of evaluations have been done?

    If you don't know WHY the child is this way, it is much more difficult to come up with an effective plan - and usually more difficult to get appropriate services.
  4. 5rznshwy

    5rznshwy Guest

    To answer some of the asked questions:

    1) What diagnosis does the child have?

    The child has been diagnosed with ODD, ADHD, Mood Disorder, and Asperger's.

    2) What evaluations have been completed?

    An IQ test has been completed, but more will be done in the coming weeks.

    3) What type of classroom is the child in?

    The child is in a Special Education class and is categorized as ED for emotionally disturbed.

    4) Is an aide available?
    One is available in the class, but not a personal one.

    5) What plan is there for increasing hours of education?

    Basically by ear. There is no set time period, but if the child behaves well long enough, the time at school will increase subsequently.

    You would likely be right. But the question is what can we do when neither threats nor positivity encourage the child to behave better in the classroom?
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    If neither threats nor positive interventions have any impact, then there would seem to be only two possibilities:
    1) there are other issues at play - either missing dxes, or things that have happened in the past at school, or how he feels about the current placement... something is going on
    2) sometimes, the only thing that works is to change the setting... different school, different approach, etc.

    Asperger's is the overriding diagnosis here. ADHD... exists to some extent in Aspies anyway, and cannot be, given as a formal diagnosis (may be given for school reasons, or to provide more definition and guidance on what flavor of Aspie this child is) if the child has the Asperger's diagnosis.

    Mood disorder - may be primary, or secondary. For example, secondary depression and/or secondary anxiety are the result of the environments and experiences the child has been in and/or is in now. In which case, you have to solve the underlying issues in order to affect the mood disorder.

    ODD... is a really odd diagnosis. There really isn't anything much that works for ODD - no interventions, accommodations, medications. But, many of us have found that the behaviours that are part of ODD usually have a cause.

    Has he ever been evaluated by an Occupational Therapist (OT) for sensory and motor skills issues?
    Sensory issues are HUGE - and very common in Aspie kids.
    Often results in overload... which results in behavior issues.

    Who gave the Aspie diagnosis? How comprehensive was that evaluation?
  6. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    This parent needs an advocate, or probably an attorney. Yesterday.

    Has the child had an FBA and a BIP?
  7. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Has the child had a neuro/psychological evaluation? It sure sounds like there has not been a complete evaluation done and therefore there is no way to set appropriate goals. How old is the child, by the way? That makes a big difference. DDD
  8. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Like DDD, I would like to know the age of the child as my advice would be very different for a 6 year old or a 16 year old.
  9. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    JJJ- the child is in 6th grade.

    Again, I have to say the parents need an advocate/attorney like yesterday. Increasing educational time when the child behaves better? No - it's just not going to happen if the child is in charge (which is what is happening with this "plan") and this child is going to end up with- zero education and/or vocational/life skills.

    One hour a day "education"? That's not an education by any stretch of the imagination - the kid is simply falling farther and farther behind. How on earth will he/she ever catch up?

    Current placement/staffing - an obvious no. Just because a child "demands" to go home after 10 minutes - well, I mean, really - who is running the show?

    There certainly should have been more testing done before the initiation of the IEP and it should have included screening for LDs, etc., and I think most importantly would be an FBA. What are the kid's triggers? What strategies can be tried for managing the behaviors before resorting to in essence a suspension?

    I get frustrated when professionals cave in to manipulative behaviors. Without a doubt, it's *incredibly* difficult to work through them. It takes consistency and a really firm management plan, with zero wiggle room for staff. And staff has to be firmly committed to not allowing this 6th grader to rule the classroom. Staff needs a plan first, preferably developed by a behavior specialist. They need support from admin to implement the plan, they definitely need solid training on managing this child's very special needs, and they need the appropriate setting to do it in.

    There is no magic pill or strategy that is going to change things around. The child is not going to just wake up one morning and decide it's time to get with the program. It's going to be an extra difficult challenge since you're going to have to break really bad habits that the staff and child have fallen into, with the added challenge that behaviors usually get worse before they get better when you implement behavior management plans. This child needs to have professionals who really know their stuff when it comes to dealing with behaviors, and who won't get sucked into his/her manipulative baloney.

    Again - I really think the parents need an advocate/attorney to help them stop this right *now* and get the child into an appropriate program/placement. I'm betting the school district is perfectly happy with- this 1 hour a day junk - and shame on them.
  10. 5rznshwy

    5rznshwy Guest

    More answers:

    1) How old is the child?


    2) Has the child been evaluated for sensory & motor issues?


    3) Who gave the Aspie diagnosis and how comprehensive was the evaluation?

    The diagnosis was given when the child was sent to a childrens behavioral health facility; the child usually ends up at the facility when their behavior simply gets too out of hand too often. Also, it's unknown how comprehensive the evaluation was when it was given.

    4) Has the child had a BIP and FBA?

    Yes. I need to educate myself more on these, but what I inferred from the parent was that these were done to set some base goals for the child, such as less destructive self expression.

    5) Has the child had a neuro/pysch evaluation?


    6) Does the child have an advocate?

    Yes. The parent says the advocate is usually on hand at IEP meetings. Should they be involved elsewhere to?
  11. 5rznshwy

    5rznshwy Guest

    What are the most pertinent things we need done for this child?

    There's so many problems and so much going on with this child that to be honest, I'm really not sure what questions I need to be asking here....
  12. buddy

    buddy New Member

    To answer your my humble opinion most pressing is :
    1. Get a really strong legal advocate. He is being deprived of fape and has illegally been removed /suspended too many times
    2. Write and send by registered mail, a formal request for an independent functional behavior analysis. Since the school has run out of options and their level of expertise is not enough an outside evaluator needs to come in at the district's expense. They can present a list of.choices but by law really cant demand only that list....they can only set a requirement on the type of professional (so people don't pick some alternative healer or some silly thing...usually a psychologist who specializes in behavior.) And.they can set limits on cost which must be reasonable to what anyone would pay privately (so, if they do this come here for any questions.....the ed.advocate should be pushing this)

    I.agree that the aspergers diagnosis is.probably trumping the other issues (with those others symptoms being common to that diagnosis) and my personal opinion based on experience personally and professionally is that kids on the autism spectrum do not do well in classes for kids with emotionally disorders as a primary diagnosis. The methods for behavior management rarely include the sensory accommodations often needed and the kids have a neurologically based view that is generally about what works for them. Traditional behavior plans for.ed.students do not usually include research based , effective autism strategies like social stories, visual supports, rigid schedules, and specific.autism teaching strategies. It works better for an autism specialist to work with these kids.

    Consider another setting which specializes in autism....maybe a level 4 setting at least until he can develop skills to be back in general education.

    On the home front ....
    Get a private neuropsychology evaluation and an occupational therapy evaluation and a speech.lang evaluation (esp looking for processing and social language issues that may be too subtle to pick up on without testing....these kids cover up using behavior without even knowing why

    It makes sense that any child would appear manipulative and become more so when the adults are not able to develop a positive plan which identifies what skills he is needing to develop in order to stay there.

    These parents should get their pick of options because this program seems to.violate the law all over the place.

    Read the book Lost in Schools (may be slightly different title ) by Ross Greene based on the explosive child model. It.helps outline a strategy for working on issues like these.

    Keep us updated. As you can see we truly care