Something is Up

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Hound dog, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    It's just nagging the hades outta me. (and trust me, I'm working hard at keeping my mind off it)

    We've done several......ok......many drive bys on the apartment of katies. Blinds are always in the exact same position. Kids are never outside even on pretty days. Several drive bys at not long after dark and there are no lights on in the apartment. Now we aren't always deliberately driving by.....she lives off the main street where all the stores in town are, the movie theater ect, so we have other reasons to be driving by. And since the blinds thing....I've made it a point to look at her apartment as we pass. Having lived in the complex myself for 3-4 yrs, makes picking out her apartment much easier to do, and no leaves on the trees so we don't get a blocked view.

    easy child has attempted to give kayla her books twice. Each time on a sat. Each time the front blinds were up halfway. Katie and M have no control over those kids. If they'd been inside and those blinds open, we'd have at least seen their heads pop up in a window.

    Yet sils little sis reports alex was in school friday.

    Extreme doubt they were able to move. (and no they can't switch apartments except to move to a larger apart & they're in the largest) They were running out of both cash and FS by mid month at this place. No way could they pay rent/deposit and utility deposit for somewhere else. Plus I've been calling katie's house phone. It hasn't been disconnected. It just tells me her message box is full. Which tells me she didn't have internet shut off either, because with her it's all or nothing. Trust me, the kid is lazy. And as for the moving.......she wouldn't be able to afford to pay rent and utilites somewhere else, no landlord would accept her probably because she doesn't have a job, just alex's check. That's what happened last time.......she got into a trailer and was without utilities by the next month. I don't think she's quite dumb enough to do it again. And there is no vehicle in which to move their stuff.

    The odds of them being gone every time we drive by regardless of the time of day..........uh, no.

    So........those things keep popping up in my head. Along with the fact we haven't heard a peep out of her since the thursday before the party. Regardless of what her sisters said, she most likely would've responded to me. I've said much worse to her than what I said the last time in the past (many times) and it's never stopped her from talking to me. (probably because I'm the one that buys most of the stuff for the kids)

    Then I think, well maybe she did make M move for fear she'd be arrested along with him, and he got snarky on her. DV shelter maybe? Possible. But she'd probably have access to computers there and could contact us. And......she knows we'd back her in that situation, regardless. And she's not stupid, she could claim to have been terrified of him and that's why she never did we'd "forgive" her negligence. Know what I mean?? So not really thinking dv but it is possible.

    Then I dare think, what if the officer took the paper evidence to the prosecutor but he didn't think it was enough and turned it over to cps. Cps starts to investigate. Now I dunno if they'd have rights to take into evidence any computers found on the property or not. But I do know cps and the cops make a practice of questioning kids at school before parents have a chance to drill a "story" into them. And the kids might have spilled the beans........most especially alex who couldn't keep his mouth shut if his life depended on it, he just doesn't get it socially. They rely on kayla to keep him in check. (this I know for a fact, we've all seen him blurt and her react and him shut up)

    So I'm wondering if perhaps cps questioned the kids first, got some disturbing info, maybe sent cops to the apartment......and somewhere along the line got enough evidence to arrest katie and M. I don't believe for a second katie "sold" that computer or even threw it out. And neither of them are bright enough to be able to wipe a hard drive.......M told me he has several hard drives at his old foster mothers because he couldn't wipe them. (and that thought just popped up and I find it disturbing, wish I had the woman's number) My gut tells me if they got their hands on the laptop and console computer they'd have plenty of evidence. Even if you delete something it's still there, you just have to know how to retrieve it.

    But if alex is in foster care.......I'd think he'd probably mention it. Yet if he's sad or upset about it, maybe not. But it would explain why the apartment seems empty yet alex is in school.

    easy child asked how they could be in foster care and we not know it. And I told her all katie has to say is she doesn't want them coming to stay with least until she completely loses her parental rights.

    Dunno what it is, but I've got that strong Momma "something is definitely up" thing going on. I'm hoping it means the cops and or cps are doing their jobs. I just don't have enough faith in the system to really get my hopes up that that is what has happened.

    Just sort of thinking out loud in type......putting it out there to see if I can make some sense out of what we've been seeing ect.:sigh:
  2. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    (((((hugs))))) Not knowing is the hardest part. Your instincts are always right when it comes to this kind of stuff. I hope and pray that they somehow got enough info to start an investigation and talked to the kids before the parents know and then they got some real answers. I just hope for the best outcome for the kids. This likely means no katie in their lives to have custody, at the very least, because she will tkae out losing M on the kids - at least on Kayla.
  3. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Oh Lisa, so sorry. Such a stress not knowing. You may feel like you are rambling but what you say makes so much sense and I really do believe that the gut connection thing is to be listened to. I have worked hard on that, I think a doctor yesterday thought I was thinking of too many "what ifs" yesterday, but my what ifs have come true for the last two years and so I told him that and my standard response is that, it would be great if none of this will come to pass, I am counting on it going the right way. But I have learned that if I dont throw it out there, and share my concerns with everyone I can then I will regret it and be stuck wondering what if I had done better by him? Know what I mean?? You are right to go through your thoughts and check things out. Thinking of you.... Buddy
  4. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    :hugs: I don't have any advice, Lisa. But - I'm here. And you know to go with your gut...
  5. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    You're probably right - something IS up.

    How do the kids get home from school? Can you follow a school bus or soemthing...?
  6. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    How about calling a community police officer and asking for a well check? Say you're concerned, M can be abusive, haven't heard from
    K in days, blinds
    always open, full vmailbox etc?

    Grasping at straws-could be a good fishing expedition...
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Well check could be a possibility if you make is sound good enough. I had one done for my mom years ago when I was talking to her on the phone then the phone went dead and I couldnt get the phone to answer again. I lived over an hour away and was at work so I called her local police dept to go and do a welfare check. She was so embarrassed when they showed up and all it was was that she had dropped the phone without hanging it up but oh

    Maybe you could tell the cops she was supposed to call you to set up a ride to take one of the kids for an appointment and she never did and you have called her over and over, went to her house and no one seems to be at the house. Can they check on her?
  8. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I'm going to message Nichole's bff, the one who is moving into the 3 bdrms from the 2 bdrms. The girl is literally like another one of my kids. There are pics of katie and the grands on my fb page.....since she knows for certain what everyone else in the family looks like (including grands) it will be easy for her to figure out who katie and the kids are and what they look like. All the 3 bdrm apartments are right together set up right across from each other. Actually, they're so close she wouldn't have to make much effort to watch the apartment even at this time of the year. And she can ask the manager without it getting back to katie and connecting me to it.

    I still need to get out to the school and sign up to read to the classes. Seems I've had stuff pop up that I've had to do every time I've tried to go out there. IF I spot school personnel that I know fairly well I might be able to get them to check the kids attendance records for me. Of course I'll have to try to find someone that I've not dealt with in an IEP meeting. lol ugh (they still run from me)

    She may push me to the well child check, but I'm leery of doing it. I'd rather use sneakier methods that don't point their finger at me. Know what I mean?? And heck all they do here is have the kids come to the door and count them, look them over and leave.

    I'll be going by the apartment twice today to take Travis to and from school so I'll get both a daytime view and an after dark view.

    Just is very strange. And DV shelter would actually just get her an OP and send her back home once he was served. Ours is tiny and can't house woman for long, they have to process them quickly.

    If katie and M are in jail (one can sincerely least that M is) there is no one to bail them out. No one. Biomom couldn't if she wanted to, she's back at the homeless shelter in St Louis. And katie knows not to call me for that because I won't bail anyone out of jail for any reason.

    easy child also asked if they were arrested wouldn't I be contacted since I made the report. And I said not necessarily, probably not. Because if they found more, or got info from the kids, that's most likely what they'd use.....and they wouldn't really need me.

    Which is why I'm hoping that what I gave police about M was enough to get them to question the kids, and that it started a domino effect. I'm also hoping since I informed them of M's record (which is bad as in what he was charged with) and the open cps file in Mo gave them even much more info to work with. They have a thick file with cps in Mo.

    But being out of the "loop" hoovers. Knowing that Alex was in school friday is enough to keep the panic from setting in though.
  9. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Hmm. Don't CPS/DSS contact family if parents are taken into custody? I though they tried family first, before placing children out of the home. So, if Katie and M were arrested, I would think you would have heard something that way. Does your local court have their docket information online? If one or both of them has been arrested and arraigned, the court records will show the case information. I recently helped a friend who hadn't heard from her son in awhile, I looked online and found out he'd been sentenced for shoplifting, and was serving 30 days in jail.

    Only other thing I can think of is the school. Could you go there under the guise of dropping something off for Kayla or Alex, and actually see them somehow?

    The not knowing would be driving me nuts. Something definitely sounds "off" with that apartment.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Maybe Katie arranged for someone else to "look after" the kids, and she and M took off?
    So that is all "under the radar"?
    They can come back and get the kids at Xmas break, and nobody will know they are gone until school starts again?

    I really HOPE not, but...
  11. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    CPS won't contact family members if the parents don't want them contacted. At least not until the state officially removes their parental rights. It worked that way with my cousin and her twins. My aunt reported her, which ticked her off. Nothing came of it. Later down the road the female twin let the cat out of the bag to the school nurse who reported to both police and cps. Kids were placed into foster care, my cousin and her 2nd husband were arrested. Aunt wasn't notified because cousin told officials a major bogus story of how horrible she was. A very extended family member notified her because she's a foster parent and saw them at the childrens home, then took them into her foster home until a better placement could be found. Cousin was having a major hissy over any family having the twins. (probably because she wanted no one to know the horrors of what actually had been going on) Twins went into the foster home friend of the very extended family. About a year into it when the state finally officially removed cousins parental rights......and by this time aunt was fighting for her grandparents rights (she'd practically raised those kids up until age 5) .......state asked her if she wanted custody. She tried it for about 6 months, but the kids really needed major help after the abuse and were missing the foster family they'd been with, so she asked FM to take them back and she just did the grandma role. Foster parents adopted them a year later. Very happy ending to a very painful horrific story. Both twins turned out to be awesome pcs and successful adults.

    I'd like to see a similar thing play out for katie's kids.

    If cps or the police started investigating she'd assume correctly that we had a hand in it, and she'd throw a fit about them coming to family. If for no other reason than we'd really know the truth about what has been happening behind closed doors.
  12. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I'm surprised too because I always assumed that once cps took the kids, the bio parents had no say in where they went. And in your case, you had already contacted police and filled them in so if Katie had told them some big story about how awful you were, they probably wouldn't believe her. I would think that they would have called you first, as a relative, if the children had been taken by cps. Going on the assumption that Katie and M have been arrested, three siblings would be very hard to place together in the foster care system, especially children with issues, and if they have been taken, they may have been split up. Do you have any way of finding out if Kayla and Evan are still enrolled in the school? Know anyone at the school well enough that they might be willing to tip you off to the whereabouts of the kids? If you know when the school bus picks up and drops off the kids from the apartment complex, you might be parked somewhere near enough to see if they get on or off the bus?

    I really hope that the police have been following up on M, that it's finally caught up with him, and that they have arrested him. And if they arrested him, they may very well have arrested Katie too for failing to protect her children from whatever it was that he was doing. I think I mentioned this before but we had a case in our extended family (sister in law's family)where the father was using their two small daughters to make kiddie porn videos. The father received a very long prison sentence. Their mother tried to claim that she knew nothing about it but no one believed that and she was sentenced to eight years in prison for failing to protect her children from what their father was doing. And both of them are now registered sex offenders!
  13. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Technically donna, I'm not related to either katie or her children, biologically speaking of course. Would easily explain why I wouldn't get called. Regardless if she said anything or not.....It may happen eventually, but would also explain the delay.

    easy child, well katie only has her cell number (on purpose) and her house is like a tin box that blocks her cell. So a call could've been missed.

    Nichole is in another county all together......and I'm not sure katie would even know her number.

    Only Alex has a slim chance of knowing one of the aunts last names via sister in law's sis being in his class........but if he doesn't know that she is sister in law's lil sis......then I doubt he knows it. It's a hard german name, most adults have trouble with it. And I wouldn't be surprised if they don't know Nichole's either. Because I mean.....there was never a reason for it to come up. This is not a case of these kids growing up around family and just knowing these things sort of by absorption. They only got here last year.

    I tried katie twice yesterday. She unplugged the phone or shut it off. Message came on instantly instead of taking several rings. This afternoons drive by is apartment blinds haven't moved. No lights on and it's dark and dreary here today. But then she could be in bed. Can't see much more than that from the main road.

    Usually the whole kids going with family is not an issue, so people don't know parents can say no to someone. I thought of another time I ran into this. When my bro was charged for molestation......cps removed the kids.....because his wife was still living with him. She put her foot down and flat out refused to let them go to her mother, did relent and let them go to her older sis because my mom wouldn't take them (she had no room). She got them back after cps was satisfied she didn't share guilt, but told her if he was convicted and she ever let him stay with her she'd lose the kids permanently. He was convicted and she got the divorce due to that. does happen. It's just not the usual way it plays out.
  14. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Nichole did a record search. Now I will say this has never come up before. I knew the domestic violence part was there, because I was with katie when she did it back in 2000 against M. Still in all the searches, it did not pop up.

    Suddenly today it did. But there is more. And I am confused.

    It says that in June 2009 he had a court appearance for child abuse. I find this very interesting. Since they didn't "arrive" from St Louis until Oct of 2010. It does not list details of this one however as it does the domestic violence in which it does the OP and that he was not allowed visitation of kayla.

    Now tell me, how can he have a charge against him for child abuse in 2009 when they weren't here? Ok, obviously they were.......I don't think courts long distance charge people. We were in communication with them in 2009. Although it was my myspace messages and email.

    Ok that is just weird. And could it suddenly now pop up because someone has been looking at the records? I'm asking cuz I don't know. I can't figure out why it didn't before but now it has. But then this whole 2009 thing has me going wtf??
  15. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip


    Anymore, DV is a hidden record - NOT public record - because it is to protect the identities of the victims.

    Now, in my county, they still come up. The general public just can't see what happened. Only that there was a case, and general info - but not the victim's address.

    Now - child abuse is a criminal matter, as opposed to DV which is civil (ugh). Moron could/should show up; the names of his victim(s) won't.

    Does this help?

    One more thing. Clerks of Court are human. They once switched ours and bio's addresses for certified mail.

    Nichole's county hides them entirely. (been there done that back-when).

    So... It depends.
  16. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    But why would this 2009 court appearance show up NOW, when it wasn't showing up before?

    I kind of wonder, like Lisa does, if somebody is investigating something, and... is finding old stuff that has fallen between the cracks?
  17. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    IC - fat fingers. Clerks aren't perfect.
  18. dashcat

    dashcat Member

    How do they get home from school? If they take the bus, could you just meet them at the bus stop? Or could you go to the school and meet them as they come out? They know you at the school, right? It wouldn't be completly unheard of for a Nana to meet her grandkids after school.

    It is sounding to me like CPS took the kids (which is why Alex was in school). Where would Katie go if this happened?

    Put your heads together with Nichole and easy child. Between you, you might have some connection ...somebody who might know something.

    Has her Facebook account been active?

    I know this would be driving me crazy, too.

    Keep us posted.
  19. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    fb acct is dead as a doornail.

    We've located M on twitter. Ick. Same old same old but the format is killing me. People like this thing????? I'm under a phoney name / identity. His last post there is Oct 8th near as I can tell, like I said, the format is confusing at best and I'm ready to pound the computer. lol

    Nichole and I are going on friday for the bus stop.........and to visit her bff.........and to invite katie to thanksgiving via following the kids home and walking up to the door as they do or something and asking in front of them. IF that is they get off the bus.

    School will NOT release kids to anyone not approved by the parent that day, as in a note with a signature. Ran into that at grandparents day. Had to have a note from easy child.

    No clue where katie would go.........unless back to Mo if she were running. Her Mom is in St Louis. Hmm had a thought I may act on in a few. I'd rather not as I don't like dealing with biomom. But there is at least 2 open cases on her there for cps. M is originally from TX. But I got the impression his family such as they are don't want anything to do with him.
  20. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    That 2009 date on the court record still has me confused. They left here in 2002. So why would something show up like that in 2009?